Author Topic: Atomic Bombing of Japan - A Catholics Perspective (Read 1799 times)

KevinW · « **on:** July 23, 2010, 08:40:29 PM »

In just a handful of days, it will be 65 years since we dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Japan. Can Catholics say it was moral? Without a doubt, I say yes.

Here's some of my rationale;

1. In an invasion of the Home Islands, U.S. KIA estimates were approx 1,000,000.

2. In an invasion of the Home Islands, British Commonwealth KIA estimates were approx 1,000,000.

3. In an invasion of the Home Islands, Japanese civilian deaths from famine alone were estimated at approx 5,000,000.

Read more...

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2010, 08:53:37 PM »

A completely false justification for the bombing, with false premises.

Reeks of Americanism and jingoism.

James Forrestal was against it.

For the US to offer the alternatives of unconditional surrender or atomic annihilation is morally unjustifiable.

If targeting the center of a city for an atomic blast isn't "indiscriminate" nothing can fall under the condemnation of indiscriminate destruction.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p508_Hoffman.html

Mass murder by masonic presidents on the false premise that there would be x number more casualties without the use of the bomb (and the estimates themselves are without merit, however one needn't even consider them), as though it were absolutely essential that the US prosecute a war to total victory, is not Catholic.

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2010, 06:12:39 AM »

Are we obliged to side with our own Country even if we know it is wrong and the enemy is right?

KevinW · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2010, 06:34:20 AM »

Not America, but Japan placed troops in population centers, making them legit military targets.

Not America, but Japan builts arms factories in population centers, making them legit military targets.

Not America, but Japan make these same population centers, militarty trasportation/logistical centers, making them legit military targets.

The OFFICIAL Teaching of The Church is that there willl be no *INDISCRIMINATE* use of atomic/nuclear weapons. What America did who totally in line w/ Church teaching.

As the source article asked -- why did it take TWO a-bombs to make Japan suttender?

By the way, no where did I ever state that "we were going to kill them all anyways (or words to that effect).

Oh, and I almost forgot.... as the Japanese proved on both Okinawa and Saipan, unless MADE to surrender, they themselves would either fight to the death, or slaughter their entire families.

Does anyone have any historical evidence that things would be any different during the invasions of the Home Islands?

Without Fat Man and Little Boy, the overwhelming majority of the entire Japanese populace would have either died in combat (yes, little boys and girls armed with bamboo spears), or would have had their brains blown out by their own parents.

Like it or not, those two bombs saved the Japanese Race.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2010, 08:26:45 AM »

Neither the use of atomic bombs or an invasion were necessary. The home islands were already blockaded and Japan was powerless.

The annihilation and horrible maiming of tens of thousands of people was an act of gratuituous, murderous terrorism, and anyone who understands this and supports it cannot be a true Catholic, because they would have to believe it is acceptable to incinerate innocent people for the pride of receiving "unconditional surrender."

Matto · « **Reply #5 on:** July 24, 2010, 09:20:23 AM »

Kevin W, I saw your headline and I didn't bother reading your article because I figured you would just say that it was bad to murder all those people, including many Catholics. Then I saw that you actually supported the dropping of the atomic bombs. Did you know that in the past, the Church has opposed the use of crossbows in battle because, unlike swords, they killed indiscriminately? And yet you support nuclear annihilation. What can I say, except you are wrong on this matter.

Quote

Like it or not, those two bombs saved the Japanese Race.

My goodness, you are saying that by murdering several hundred thousand people we kept ourselves from killing many millions, therefore it was a good act to murder several hundred thousands. You do understand that we could have murdered zero people and offered reasonable terms for the Japanese to surrender and they would have accepted, instead of forcing them to surrender "unconditionally" or be annihilated. You speak like you believe that only Americans are fully human and other people are little better than animals.

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2010, 01:03:43 PM »

People are watching this forum. What will they think about us if they see threads like this? A racist sect in favor of atomic bombs always having discord among themselves? If we scandalize a potential convert, we will have to answer for it. It is better for to be misinformed about world wars than to be guilty of scandalizing lurkers.

Trinity · « **Reply #7 on:** July 24, 2010, 01:05:33 PM »

Don't you think, Spouse, that the intra Catholic war will scandalize them most. You do right to be alarmed at all the scandal.

KevinW · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2010, 09:35:38 PM »

Quote from: Matto

Kevin W, I saw your headline and I didn't bother reading your article because I figured you would just say that it was bad to murder all those people, including many Catholics. Then I saw that you actually supported the dropping of the atomic bombs. Did you know that in the past, the Church has opposed the use of crossbows in battle because, unlike swords, they killed indiscriminately? And yet you support nuclear annihilation. What can I say, except you are wrong on this matter.

Quote
Like it or not, those two bombs saved the Japanese Race.

My goodness, you are saying that by murdering several hundred thousand people we kept ourselves from killing many millions, therefore it was a good act to murder several hundred thousands. You do understand that we could have murdered zero people and offered reasonable terms for the Japanese to surrender and they would have accepted, instead of forcing them to surrender "unconditionally" or be annihilated. You speak like you believe that only Americans are fully human and other people are little better than animals.

Matto,
I've already cited historical facts illustrating that it was the Japanese themselves who made these cities legitimate military targets, as well as the Bushido Tradition that demanded the fight to the death of every man, woman and child. Either that, or the parents would kill the children, then themselves. The Japanese proved that fact at both Okinawa and Saipan.

If you can cite facts that show me to be wrong, then I invite you to please cite them.

If you want to blame anyone... blame the Japanese. I ask (yet again), why did it take TWO atomic bombs? You'd think they would have gotten the message after #1 was dropped. Obviously, the peace loving Japanese Empire didn't get that particular memo.

Let's put Pearl Harbor off to the side for the moment. It was The Japanese Empire that showed absolute barbarity. Would you care to discuss the Manila Massacre (100,000 civilians dead), the Rape of Nanking (400,000 civilains dead), the slaughter of the Allied POWs (death rates as high as 50%+ in many POW Camps). Please keep in mind that the examples I just gave were of zero military significance, unlike Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

BTW, I haven't injected even the slightest hint of racism, yet you and one other have accused me of such.

If you both want to disagree with me... then fine. But like many others that have disagreed with me in the past, instead of showing evidence of where I may be wrong, it's easier to accuse me of being a racist. (BTW, I'm mixed race.)

You two aren't Democrats, are you?

Matto · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2010, 09:15:51 AM »

You posted this story on Angelqueen as well, and one of the posters there, Nemo dat quod non habet gives good sources showing why the use of atomic bombs on cities, even if there are also military targets there is evil. Anyone interested can follow the link. Angelqueen.

I am not a democrat. Are you a republican? Good luck with that,

.

The American government was founded on evil principles that are incompatible with Catholicism. The American government always was evil, is evil, and always will be evil, until it abandons the principles it was founded on and starts upholding God's principles. Long live Christ the King!

henry · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2010, 12:53:24 PM »

Both the Japanese and Americans didn't behave very well in World War 2. It was a war that didn't serve the interests of the Church. Granted, reading about some of the war crimes attributed to some of the Japanese can make one's hair stand on end, but that doesn't mean we have to approve of the use of nuclear weapons.

There's some interesting information here: http://www.whale.to/b/mullins8.html