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Author Topic: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?  (Read 1037 times)

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Offline graceseeker

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Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
« on: October 18, 2017, 11:03:26 AM »
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  • It seems to me that if a pope is not a valid pope and is ... and/or a heretic

    he cannot canonize anyone which means JP II is not a saint


    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 11:04:01 AM »
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  • sorry, I put this in the wrong place.. don't know how to move it except to copy/paste


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 12:22:59 PM »
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  • It seems to me that if a pope is not a valid pope and is ... and/or a heretic

    he cannot canonize anyone which means JP II is not a saint
    What seem to you to be the case is, in fact, the case.  A non-Catholic cannot canonize anyone.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 12:42:02 PM »
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  • Is the "Novus Ordo" Catholic?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 02:12:21 PM »
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  • What seem to you to be the case is, in fact, the case.  A non-Catholic cannot canonize anyone.
    :applause:  Finally some truth around here.
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 02:13:33 PM »
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  • Is the "Novus Ordo" Catholic?
    We all agree the answer is no, but to many Francis is still their "pope", go figure!
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 02:20:58 PM »
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  • We all agree the answer is no, but to many Francis is still their "pope", go figure!

    The laity have lost all discernment especially with Opus Dei directing them to be obedient and telling them not to question the holiness of the Pope with the mantra, "Do not be holier than the Pope."

    Those who do question the validity of the Novus Ordo, the docuмents of Vatican II, or the sayings of Pope Francis are told that they are being scrupulous or suffer from OCD. Yes, Freud to the rescue.

    They are also told that it is better to be part of the solution than part of the problem, but how can the laity fix the church by being silent or by praying silently in their homes? Honestly, I tried that.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 02:26:36 PM »
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  • What pope?

    Be a part of the final solution, the real one; you know, the one where the real "nαzι" wear stars instead of Swastika.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #8 on: October 18, 2017, 02:37:38 PM »
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  • What pope?

    Be a part of the final solution, the real one; you know, the one where the real "nαzι" wear stars instead of Swastika.
    The final solution as in euthanasia? And abortion before the person is even born?
    Oh, yes, Bill Gates would love that.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 04:09:10 PM »
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  • It seems to me that if a pope is not a valid pope and is ... and/or a heretic

    he cannot canonize anyone which means JP II is not a saint
    JPII canonized more people that all the previous popes put together. I think B-16 is a close second, though he had a higher canonization rate. 

    I think all the canonizations are a smoke screen to canonize their own, like John XXIII and JPII were canonized. By their deeds you shall know them.

    Yet one more proof that they were anti-popes.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 04:28:53 PM »
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  • JPII canonized more people that all the previous popes put together. I think B-16 is a close second, though he had a higher canonization rate.

    I think all the canonizations are a smoke screen to canonize their own, like John XXIII and JPII were canonized. By their deeds you shall know them.

    Yet one more proof that they were anti-popes.
    The real Church produces saints; a facsimile won't be very convincing if it doesn't seem to.

    Add to that what it means to be a canonized saint, what it implies, what obligations it imposes on others and you get a horrid situation where, for example, you are venerating someone who is an exemplar for Satanism being presented as one who is holy.

    But no, most people whip out the old canard of, "It just means they're in Heaven!"

    No, that is not all that it means.

    Example? What I "learned" from Assisi:
    1. I should offer aid and support to someone of another "faith" to practice theirs
    2. The gods of the pagans not only aren't devils, but their prayers are efficacious.
    3. I not only can, but really should pray with them, just like "Good old JP2".
    4. It isn't apostasy to do so.
    5. If there is "one true faith", then it cannot be Catholic.
    6. .*. to say that it doesn't matter if you're Catholic isn't correct; it is foolish to be Catholic when we could, for example, blaze our brains out, fornicate, and trip on peyote all the way to Heaven. Catholicism then = masochism. Redemptive suffering = stupid which then says what of the Most Holy Cross of Christ Jesus? Why all the pain when we can party? Hey, we're supposed to be joyful, right?

    "Did God really say...?"

    etc., etc., ad nauseam.

    "The son does as he sees..."

    It does no good to make "theological" protestations either, for Joe and Jane McSixpack already got the "wrong" message via "Saint" JP2 and his successors in perfidy.  

    No? Have you seen the  "Church" lately?

    "Lex orandi..."
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 05:13:25 PM »
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  • The real Church produces saints; a facsimile won't be very convincing if it doesn't seem to.

    Add to that what it means to be a canonized saint, what it implies, what obligations it imposes on others and you get a horrid situation where, for example, you are venerating someone who is an exemplar for Satanism being presented as one who is holy.

    But no, most people whip out the old canard of, "It just means they're in Heaven!"

    No, that is not all that it means.

    Example? What I "learned" from Assisi:
    1. I should offer aid and support to someone of another "faith" to practice theirs
    2. The gods of the pagans not only aren't devils, but their prayers are efficacious.
    3. I not only can, but really should pray with them, just like "Good old JP2".
    4. It isn't apostasy to do so.
    5. If there is "one true faith", then it cannot be Catholic.
    6. .*. to say that it doesn't matter if you're Catholic isn't correct; it is foolish to be Catholic when we could, for example, blaze our brains out, fornicate, and trip on peyote all the way to Heaven. Catholicism then = masochism. Redemptive suffering = stupid which then says what of the Most Holy Cross of Christ Jesus? Why all the pain when we can party? Hey, we're supposed to be joyful, right?

    "Did God really say...?"

    etc., etc., ad nauseam.

    "The son does as he sees..."

    It does no good to make "theological" protestations either, for Joe and Jane McSixpack already got the "wrong" message via "Saint" JP2 and his successors in perfidy.  

    No? Have you seen the  "Church" lately?

    "Lex orandi..."
    Dante - The roads in hell are paved with the skulls of priests, and the bishop are the lampposts.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 05:23:13 PM »
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  • Dante - The roads in hell are paved with the skulls of priests, and the bishop are the lampposts.
    I hear you, but the questions in this case would then be, "What bishops and, if any, in what sense?"

    It seems a trap to default into thinking them such, at least without acute qualifications.

    The Anglicans, the Old "Catholics", the Orthodox, Satanists... all have "bishops" and/or bishops, but they aren't Catholic; therefore they are in the same general non-Catholic category as the Conciliars, and are just about as irrelevant. 

    Therefore, I don't think that Alighieri refers to these, with all due.  
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #13 on: October 18, 2017, 05:35:09 PM »
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  • I hear you, but the questions in this case would then be, "What bishops and, if any, in what sense?"

    It seems a trap to default into thinking them such, at least without acute qualifications.

    The Anglicans, the Old "Catholics", the Orthodox, Satanists... all have "bishops" and/or bishops, but they aren't Catholic; therefore they are in the same general non-Catholic category as the Conciliars, and are just about as irrelevant.

    Therefore, I don't think that Alighieri refers to these, with all due.
    If Alighieri were alive to day and were to witness all the clergy drug parties, gigs, and orgies going on in Rome, certainly he would be aghast.
    It must be far worse now than during his time.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Are novus ordo "canonizations" valid?
    « Reply #14 on: October 18, 2017, 06:01:29 PM »
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  • If Alighieri were alive to day and were to witness all the clergy drug parties, gigs, and orgies going on in Rome, certainly he would be aghast.
    It must be far worse now than during his time.
    I really don't aim to be contrary ma'am, but false gold isn't "worse" gold; it's false gold.

    Quantity v Quality ma'am.

    A one hair stickin' out of Hell Catholic, is still Catholic.
    "Lord, have mercy".