[Neil Obstat]

Also, it is helpful to remember the Vandenberg rocket launch filmed from Phoenix to understand how altitude affects the visibility of an object breaking over your local horizon.

The rocket was going upward higher than a plane. Therefore, it was visible over a greater distance. If it was at a lower altitude the angle would have been too low to see it from Phoenix 400 miles away.

That's how we know the sun and moon are at a very high altitude.

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As the moon is traveling in its level path in its circuit above the flat plane of earth you will not -cannot- see it until it rises on your horizon at your particular location.
For most locations, the average distance to the horizon is 10-30 miles.
You can measure this for yourself with known landmarks at your locatio
Example: at my western horizon is a particular mountain: that mountain is 30 miles from my house.

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So you can't see further than 30 miles like the mountain near your house. Fine.
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But then you CAN see a rocket from Vandenberg 400 miles away. 
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Oh, but that's not contradicting yourself, because flat-earthers never contradict themselves, by what, definition?
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Ipso facto -- flat-earthers are always right according that is, to flat-earthers, who have their own reality.
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Check.

[Neil Obstat]

Try this on for size:
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The reason you can't see further than 30 miles on the "flat" surface of the earth is:  the earth isn't "flat."
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If you want to see further than 30 miles, just climb up to the top of a high mountain, like I have.
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From the top of Mt. Whitney in the Sierra Nevada mountains, you can see over 100 miles into the California/Nevada desert.
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And a level line of sight from the summit (14,500') is well up into the CLOUDS above the curvature of the spheroid earth.
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[Smedley Butler]

Try this on for size:
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The reason you can't see further than 30 miles on the "flat" surface of the earth is: the earth isn't "flat."
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If you want to see further than 30 miles, just climb up to the top of a high mountain, like I have.
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From the top of Mt. Whitney in the Sierra Nevada mountains, you can see over 100 miles into the California/Nevada desert.
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And a level line of sight from the summit (14,500') is well up into the CLOUDS above the curvature of the spheroid earth.
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Hey dummy, try this on for size:
The ROCKET IS THE MOUNTAIN.
Your scenario is reversed in the rocket launch: 
People on the ground can see the rocket because it attained a very high altitude,  much higher than a mountain.
Neil is not known for his critical thinking skills. 

[Ladislaus]

So, if I were to climb a mountain, I should be able to see the moon much farther away, and its size should be significantly smaller, right?

vs. if it's really 238,000 miles away, then it wouldn't change much (not measurably) as it moves across the sky.

[Smedley Butler]

So, if I were to climb a mountain, I should be able to see the moon much farther away, and its size should be significantly smaller, right?

vs. if it's really 238,000 miles away, then it wouldn't change much (not measurably) as it moves across the sky.

No.
Climbing the mountain (or elevating a rocket) merely extends your horizon.
Climbing the mountain only brings you a couple thousand feet closer, which will not change its size appearance.
Think ofbit this way: let's suppose the moon is close, only 2,000 miles instead of 238k.
We know because of the visible naked eye detail.
This distance is the vertical y-axis altitude at zenith. But when the moon is on the opposite side of the plane from our location the "c" side of the triangles' distance is greater than 2,000.

[Neil Obstat]

No.
Climbing the mountain (or elevating a rocket) merely extends your horizon.

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Let's see, you climb up to the top of a mountain and you can then see the horizon recede away from you.
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Your horizon is extended because you can see further over the earth's curvature. 
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In fact, you can MEASURE it with a level scope -- which you don't understand how to use, but I do.
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This isn't rocket science (even when viewed from a rocket -- where the level scope doesn't work). 
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[Neil Obstat]

So, if I were to climb a mountain, I should be able to see the moon much farther away, and its size should be significantly smaller, right?

vs. if it's really 238,000 miles away, then it wouldn't change much (not measurably) as it moves across the sky.

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The moon is visible further over the horizon when you climb a mountain because you're seeing past the earth's curvature more from up high than you were from down low.
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But the moon might sometimes appear larger near the horizon due to some kind of atmospheric enlargement, as we discussed in another place here (another thread?).
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But given any particular day/night, the moon's size as it traverses high in the sky is always the same -- not sometimes but always. 
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When flat-earthers say the moon is 3,000 miles high (but they can't agree and have no way of measuring it) when it moves from east to west it should be twice as big mid-way because it's twice as close then, and that would ALWAYS be the case. But it NEVER is.
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It must be really depressing to be a flat-earther and have to lose every single time.

[Ladislaus]

When flat-earthers say the moon is 3,000 miles high (but they can't agree and have no way of measuring it) when it moves from east to west it should be twice as big mid-way because it's twice as close then, and that would ALWAYS be the case. But it NEVER is.

Right, and that was my point.  This seems to be a strong argument against flat earth.  Now, Smedley responded that you can only see the moon from 30 miles away.  But, then, what's going on when it appears to rise and set below the horizon?  If it were merely converging with the horizon, you wouldn't see it where half of the moon is hidden beneath the horizon but the other have clearly visible.

[Neil Obstat]

Right, and that was my point.  This seems to be a strong argument against flat earth.  

Now, Smedley responded that you can only see the moon from 30 miles away.  But, then, what's going on when it appears to rise and set below the horizon?  If it were merely converging with the horizon, you wouldn't see it where half of the moon is hidden beneath the horizon but the other [half] clearly visible.

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Smedley is caught in his own web of deception, hurling insults when his state of frustration has been exposed.
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It's just pathetic to see them trying to talk their way out of the hole they dug for themselves. 
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If you can only see 30 miles away then why can we see the sun in the daytime and stars at night?
He's attempting to limit our vision to 30 miles because then he doesn't have to contend with earth's curvature.
It's a case of inside-out thinking, so he accuses others of poor comprehension. Okaaaay.
The sun and stars both rise in the east and set in the west, often at 70-80 degrees from the horizontal.
Then he said, "the ROCKET IS THE MOUNTAIN," which I have to admit, is a novel concept. 
Apparently he can't tell the difference between a rocket and a mountain.
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Sad.

[Neil Obstat]

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wrong thread

[Smedley Butler]

Neil is painfully stupid.

It doesn't matter if your example of gaing altitude is a rocket or a mountain top, both extend yoir horizon's visibility. 

The actual distance difference though is small. You would not perceive a size difference by adding only 30 miles at that scale.

This also how we can tellthe sun and moon are the same size and not dissimilar altitudes.

[Neil Obstat]

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You're making quite an impressive record for yourself!
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No dummy.

Hey dummy, try this on for size:
The ROCKET IS THE MOUNTAIN.
Neil is not known for his critical thinking skills. 

Neil is painfully stupid.

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