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Offline Lover of Truth

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This Should be Enough to Start a Revolution
« on: September 28, 2012, 01:28:07 PM »
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  • This is truly a gruesome story that hopefully will wake some people up:

    http://christorchaos.com/DispensingWithThePretenseofBrainDeath.html

    Lest anyone reading this article, whose beginning has been taken whole from Good Rule Of Thumb: Reject What Conciliarists Promote as I know that readers forget and that repetition is the mother of learning, think for a nanosecond that the story from the September 25, 2012, edition of the New York Post online is not indicative of the deception about "brain death" that is used throughout the corrupt medical industry throughout the world, here are two other stories to consider to disabuse you of that notion:

    My son Christian was 15 years old when he had an accident on his way to school. His heartbeat stopped and the doctor on emergency call reanimated him with electroshock. A rescue helicopter took him to Hanover Medical University [located in Hanover, Federal Republic of Germany].


    The doctors left us in no doubt that Christian was severely hurt and there was little hope of his survival. Nevertheless, I still hoped that his life was being saved by a miracle. Christian didn’t seem to be badly hurt; there were just a cut at his lip, a grazed cheekbone and another graze on his forehead. His wounds weren’t covered and had stopped bleeding. Christian seemed to be fast asleep. He breathed with the help of a respirator, and there were different monitors displaying diagrams around his bed. At his bedside we could see a catheter filling so fast that it had to be replaced by a bucket. The upper part of his body was not covered and seeing him like this made me feel cold inside. Gently I touched his arm. Christian was warm.


    I thought that all the treatment was meant to help my child. But I was wrong. The doctors tried to keep him alive in order to save other people’s lives with his living organs. He was not being treated for his own benefit but for the benefit of others. They had prevented him from dying because only living organs can be transplanted successfully. The abundance of infusions, they had to give him in the beginning to prevent him from dying on the way to the hospital, had to be irrigated so that they would not harm the organ recipients. The doctors’ biggest worry was to prevent him from dying before the organ retrieval. Some time later they asked us to leave the room as they wanted to make an electro-encephalogram. Apart from that, they were waiting for a team of neurosurgeons, we were informed. Instead of the expected 20 minutes, the encephalogram took one and a half hours. There is nothing in the files about an electro-encephalogram, but instead of this an electro-cardiogram. We did not see any neurosurgeons although there is a protocol of two neurosurgeons in his file at that particular time when we were waiting outside the sick-room. Instead of the neurosurgeons, the emergency ward came and explained to us Christian was “dead and clean from barbiturates” and that we would be asked about organ donation and he was telling us now so that we could begin to think about it. That was all. The world stood still for me. The past was gone, the present moment unbearable, there was no future.


    They showed us into a small dark room, lit only by streetlight and the lamps from the corridor. We were waiting there motionless, frozen in horror. All at once the assistant medical director came, “Surely Christian was socially-minded?” Was he? I couldn’t tell this moment. “There are other children bound to die if they don’t get a new organ in time.” I was petrified with horror and my only thought was, “It’s over.” The doctor urged us to consent as there were other parents being as desperate as we sitting at the bedside of their children but we were able to help them! I didn’t want anyone to die neither my child nor any other children. I was unable to answer. My husband decided the matter. “If we could help what would they take?”


    “Either heart or liver or kidneys, maybe cartilage.”


    I could not think properly and didn’t realize that organs can only be retrieved in an operation. We had to abandon hope. We were separated from our child, could not hold him and had to let go of him. We had to say goodbye to him forever while he was still treated, while he was warm, while the monitors were on, and while he was given infusions. I failed to see that he was “dead”, but believed in what the doctors said and trusted them.


    After five days Christian was transported to Wolfsburg. I needed to see him for the last time, feel his presence, touch him, delaying for a moment the endless time, afterwards, without him. The undertakers had warned us that he might look very much altered. I didn’t understand what they meant at the time. Did he look ugly? I didn’t mind because when he had chicken pox his face was so swollen I could hardly recognize him. Nothing could stop me. The following morning I was told Christian would be in the small chapel of our cemetery. When I arrived there a cemetery attendant was about to disappear behind the next corner. Reluctantly he came back. When I urged him, he opened the coffin. There Christian was lying - deadly pale, as cold as a stone, not moving. Though I hadn’t seen a dead body before there was no doubt that he was dead. There was a cut from his chin to the neckline of his shirt, he had no eyes. My child looked like a drawn goose.


    What had we given our consent to?


    Having looked through the medical report I learned that they had retrieved his heart, liver, kidneys, and eyes, and they had even removed his pelvic bones and sold them. Our consent to the removal of one organ had been changed into a multi-organ removal without asking us. The last sight of my child burnt itself into my soul. When I think of him, I have to fight the horrible impression that he was looking so undignified and exploited. This sight of my son still haunts me in my dreams.


    But there was something else that worried me afterwards. How could it be that my son was dead while he looked alive and was treated as a living patient? Neither he nor his treatment had changed.


    In his medical report I found three different death notices: the first at 17.00 hours, when they diagnosed his brain death they declared as death. The second death notice was docuмented after the retrieval operation, and the third one a day after. How often can a human being die, how many deaths can he die? I thought there is only one death.


    I heard the word “brain death” the first time. And it was difficult for me as a non-professional to learn about the meaning of brain death. It is also named “death of the person” or “death of the individual”. If you think it means that a person or individual has died, you are wrong. It only means that the personal or individual aspects of a human being are out of order. The autonomy of the control systems has failed. Dying is a process, not a dot-like event. A brain dead person is about to die. There is no way back to life. Brain death is a definition of physicians to call someone dead when the brain fails. Only on condition that a person is declared dead can they can legally remove living organs while the respirator is still on.


    Maybe you don’t understand what I mean. Maybe you think that he would have died anyway, why couldn’t they make use of him? That’s not my point. What I want to make clear is that dying persons are not dead. There is some life ahead of them which they have to complete. Mental and spiritual processes are still going on. A human being needs his own death like a ship needs a floodgate to get into different waters safely. My child did not have the chance to die in this way; instead the ship of his life was sunk abruptly. What a traumatic death he had to suffer after the transplant surgeons had broken him up! My son was a human being, an individual, and no object, and even less recycling material. (Renate Greinert Story.)

    TWISTED


    "For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6: 12

    My husband went to the X-ray department of the hospital to pick-up the docuмents and the X-rays of our son. The woman attending the desk slipped the X-rays from the large envelope and said, "Oh. Well at least he's OK, isn't he?" My husband was shocked and replied, "No, matter-of-fact, my son died here in this hospital!" The woman's eyes widened, she dropped the X-rays, backed away from the counter, turned and walked away. My husband had to help himself to the items she had gathered for him.

    The ambulance and hospital records revealed an entirely different account of what took place that dark day.

    In the ambulance our son was conscious and "used purposeful movement with his left arm." He was then given drugs that would sedate him and increase his heart rate. Records stated he had a gag reflex.

    There was no mention of the drugs used in the ambulance in the hospital records. In ER he was responding to pain, breathing on his own and continued to have a gag reflex.

    In laymen's terms, he had flunked the clinical criteria for "brain death."

    In an effort to ventilate him he was given pain meds and repeated doses of a paralyzing drug-seven repeated doses. My son fought for his life against those that tried to overtake him. Oh! How our son was tortured.

    X-rays were taken-however, their findings were not recorded in the hospital records until much later, long after he had been declared a "donor" and "brain dead" and after his surgery. The notations made here indicated no major damage to the main part of his brain. This statement was repeated more than once throughout the medical docuмents.

    He had a head injury, no doubt, requiring intensive treatment. What he received, rather, was a death sentence as he was immediately treated as an organ donor. The ER admitting records indicate, "brain dead," "fatal head injury" and "donor."

    The Swan-Ganz line, oversaturating his system with fluids and all other procedures for the pretreatment of living human dissection was done. This is standard protocol for "organ donors"-a procedure immediately implemented. Unbeknownst to all of us, conscious and fighting for his life, he was being prepared to be conveniently killed.

    Pronounced dead once? Twice? Three times? Then murdered!

    "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:8

    Pronounced "brain dead" in ER and a "donor," obviously alive, he is pronounced dead three more times!!

    First death-a convenience death-invented to schedule and regulate the actual time of real death. We were told five hours after his having been admitted into ER that he was "dead." The hospital records confirm this time, stating "brain death" had occurred after the apnea test was performed. Obviously my son's organs had already been sold to the highest bidder-he received the death sentence and despite his fight for life, he had been condemned to death. Despite the fact that he could not respond due to being sedated, "brain death" was pronounced.

    Second death: the "paper death"-the death certificate. This indicates that he died one and one half hours prior to the apnea test and having been labeled "brain dead!"

    Third death-the true "physical death"-having completed their ritualistic rite, our son had been dissected alive and in doing so, killed. The medical records indicate that our son had been given anesthesia nineteen hours after he was suppose to be DEAD! Two drugs were administered-one to relieve pain and a paralyzing drug to inhibit movement-prior to this fatal dissection-half way through his torture, all pain medications was withdrawn. The length of time for his beating heart and other vital organs to be cut out was three and one half hours.

    The doctors and staff at this hospital had listed a variety of different times of death. Relatives testified having called the hospital inquiring of our son's condition was told he had died-two and one half hours prior to the apnea test and one and one half hour prior to the death certificate. The hospital reported to a newspaper he died the following morning. There were so many conflicting reports that it was all too obvious to many the seriousness problems of the "brain death" declaration of death.


    A Living Hell


    Unbeknownst to us, alive and fighting for his life, our son was repeatedly and constantly being tormented and tortured. I have to live with this and it has been a daily struggle.

    I now know that my son responded to my touch and voice. The "box" that the two nurses were viewing was that of my son's vital signs. There is no doubt in my mind that his blood pressure and heart rate increased in my presence. I also have no doubt that the reason for the "box" being turned away from me and my family was to conceal the signs of his life-heart beat, respiration, and blood pressure. I have asked Jesus a million times to forgive me of my ignorance and for delivering my son to this throne of demons.

    I asked for my son's blessings. I had told him that Jesus would see him "today" in heaven-all as if he his death were imminent-and I know that he was listening. I can only imagine his horror! I left him for dead! I left him there alone and walked away. God have mercy on me!


    I believe that had I not been deceived, my son would be alive today. The two doctors' reports stated this fact. I believe whole heatedly that the Lord of Life did hear my prayers. Had I not requested that he be delivered into the hands of a level one hospital where organ transplantation is facilitated in great haste, he would have been treated for his injury. I understand now the fight that I had to take him to this hospital, for those of the fire department and ambulance crew knew the lurking evil. Their silence was deadly.

    There is a price paid for deception and the lack of knowledge. The consequence, of which I can attest, will affect me my entire life. Organ donation and my ignorance thereof was the vehicle, the tool necessary for the organ transplant team to carry out their sadistic plan.

    I have to live with this ugliness and wait to see my son again. This pain-this incredible void-is most difficult to endure. I cannot view his pictures and enjoy the memories of this beautiful creature that God created, blessing me with his birth and life. I am haunted by the TRUTH of what I witnessed and the revealing of his torture and death. My negligence of his foolishness and playing with a gun is a burden all of its own. To allow him to be taught such a perverse doctrine is quite another, this having the ability to take his life given any number of medical scenarios that could have arisen in his lifetime. You see, he had permitted "organ donor" to be put on his drivers' license at which time the preparations for the ceremonial sacrifice commenced.

    "Father forgive them for they know not what they have done." (Bernice Jones Story. Also see the appendix below for a news story about the case of Mrs. Jones.)

     

    Still want to believe in "brain death"? You believe in a lie. You believe in a myth. You can yell and scream and call Dr. Paul Byrne all kinds of nasty names, as some sedevacantist clergy  do, sadly. These examples are no more "abuses" of a "legitimate" and morally licit "medical procedure" than what happens in your typical staging of the Protestant and Masonic Novus Ordo service when some "unauthorized innovation" outrages "conservative" Catholics. The Novus Ordo service is itself an abuse that engenders further abuses not intended or "approved" by conciliar authorities in Rome. In like manner, "brain death" is an abuse of truth that engenders increasingly "broader" definitions as to who can be declared as "brain dead" and thus targeted for execution by vivisection.

    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 01:45:56 PM »
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  • Mrs. Bernice Jones Reflects on the Killing of Her Son

    Archived at Lifesite News: “Brain Death” as Criteria for Organ Donation is a Deception: Bereaved Mother

    ROME, February 23, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Bernice Jones came to Rome last week to tell the world that doctors killed her son by removing his organs. "Brain death is not death" and "organ donation is very deceptive," the bereaved mother told LifeSiteNews.com in an interview on Thursday.

    Mrs. Jones was attending an international conference on the dangers of so-called "brain death" criteria and related her experience of losing her son, Brandon, who was declared "brain dead" and used as an organ donor.

    "Families are led to believe that their loved ones are dead," Jones told LSN, "but in fact they are alive. You must be alive to be a vital organ donor." Families, she said, are being deceived by doctors and hospital administrators, "by everyone who is involved in organ transplantation." The declaration of brain death "is a deception, a violent deception, that your loved one is dead."

    Jones described what she characterized as a betrayal of principle by medical professionals at a hospital in their home state of Washington, whose priority she argued is no longer the care of the patient at hand but the procurement of organs for transplants. Although she declined to name the hospital, she said, "It happens at all hospitals."

    Nine years ago, Mrs. Jones’s son suffered an accidental gunshot wound to the head and was declared "brain dead" upon arrival at the hospital. He was immediately prepared for the removal of his organs.

    Mrs. Jones said, "While my family and I thought that our son was being treated for his well-being, to preserve and protect his life, he was not, he was being treated to be an organ donor."

    "His vital organs were being procured not for his benefit but to benefit someone else."

    24 hours after the family was told Brandon was dead, Mrs. Jones had an intuition that her son was still alive. Later investigation revealed that the hospital had told the family her son was "brain dead" but, without the family’s knowledge, had kept him alive on a respirator for 20 hours while flooding his body with fluids and drugs in preparation for what his mother described as a live "dissection" that brought about his death.

    Legal consent, she said, was obtained while the family was in deep shock over the accident. Jones’s husband signed the consent forms over her objections and the family, still in shock, was told to go home. During their time at the hospital, the family was introduced to a woman whom doctors referred to as an "organ procurement agent." This woman used what Mrs. Jones described as a standard "script," speaking soothingly to the family about Brandon’s altruism and desire to help others, to induce them to sign the consent forms, copies of which were not given to the family.

    Mrs. Jones was later to learn that these procedures are standard for organ retrieval. "All of the organ donor families I have spoken to received the same script," she said. Organ procurement officials approach the family when they are at their most vulnerable, she said. "It’s always when you’re not mentally, emotionally capable" of making an informed decision.

    Prior to obtaining his organs, Brandon was given paralysing drugs to keep him from moving. He was anesthetized during the removal process. Mrs. Jones said that the diagnosis of brain death is a sham. "If he is supposed to be dead, why does he need paralysing drugs to keep him from moving? Why does he need anesthesia?"

    Brandon Jones was given, without his family’s consent, what is called an "apnea test" by doctors, to determine brain death. Doctors remove the ventilator for two minutes from a patient who requires assistance breathing. The heart rate decreases and after two minutes without oxygen, "brain death" is declared.

    The apnea test as a diagnostic tool was specifically denounced at the conference as unethical by Dr. Cicero Coimbra, a neurologist from Sao Paolo, Brazil. The test, he said, which cuts off oxygen to the brain, will bring about severe, irreversible brain damage in patients who, with proper care, would otherwise have had a good chance of survival.

    Mrs. Jones believes doctors who are motivated by the desire to obtain organs use the apnea test knowing that it will induce severe brain damage while the body is prepared for organ removal.

    Despite the harm it does, the apnea test, she said, is administered without the family’s consent. "We were in with our son, and they told us to leave the room, that they had to perform a test. They did not ask permission to do this."

    "If a family was made aware of what an apnea test consists of, no family member would ever consent to this."

    She described what happened to her son: "For two minutes they took the ventilator away from him. They wait for the pulse to go down but the heart continues to beat. Then they put the ventilator back on. Now, in this two-minute time frame, they pronounce the patient dead.

    "Before they put them back on the ventilator they pronounce the patient dead. It’s a prerequisite to being able to declare a legal but fictional death." This "death" is what she has described as a "convenience death, invented to schedule and regulate the actual time of real death."

    Brandon died, she claimed, while his organs, including his still-beating heart, were removed in surgery. "Our son had been dissected alive and in doing so, killed."

    Mrs. Jones is the founder of an organisation of parents and families who have undergone this experience and which is dedicated to bringing to the public eye the danger of the "brain death" criteria. The Life Guardian Foundation is dedicated to educating the public that "life of the human person is a gift."

    The group calls it "irreverent" to use terms such as "brain dead," "vegetative state," "terminal condition," and "imminent danger of death." "Such designations have been proposed and are actively used for the sole purpose of demeaning and shortening life, as well as to hasten the death of a human person."

    Mrs. Jones said that in her research after her son’s death that "there is no scientific validation for ‘brain death’. Absolutely none, whatsoever."

    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline JohnGrey

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    « Reply #2 on: September 28, 2012, 01:47:10 PM »
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  • No revolution will be forthcoming.  The shameless licentiousness of the world is joined inextricably to the same culture of death that murdered this young boy, and used his poor mother to pronounce his sentence.  The shade of the inevitable death of this life, itself not presenting the barest fraction of a moment when weighed against eternity, has taken up residence in the hearts of men.  The garden of Christian character, if ever planted in the first place, is choked by the bramble of animal appetites.  Where the Lamb of God should be enshrined, instead is found the mindless goat of perdition, bleating, "Do as thou wilt; there shall be no second death."

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    « Reply #3 on: September 28, 2012, 02:19:16 PM »
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  • A tragic story.  Sadly, once moral decay becomes the norm, what passes for "good" becomes what in an more righteous environment would be considered neutral.  

    Abortion is common.

    Government control of the medical industry will bring about more stories like this one.

    Open euthanasia is coming soon.  When you hear policitians talk about the high costs of caring for the elderly, they mean that by trick or crook they will commence the legalization of euthanasia.  It's next on the agenda now that it looks like Obamacare is going to stay the law of the land.  Remember, this story happened in Germany, where they have had state-run health care for many years.

     :pray:---->For Bernice Jones and for the victims of the culture of death (because we first accepted a culture of atheism).

    Offline sspxbvm

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    « Reply #4 on: September 28, 2012, 04:57:37 PM »
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  • Thank you for that post. Will re double my intentions in the Rosary. May God's day of triumph come soon!



    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #6 on: September 29, 2012, 07:37:01 PM »
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  • I have no doubt, knowing how rotten and greedy the medical industry is, that certain people are harvested for organs. But who can say that there is no such thing as brain death, ever, with absolute certainty? Is Thomas Droleskey a doctor?

    We need good Catholic doctors with integrity to research this. That will be in the future, presuming that this level of technology is achieved again.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #7 on: September 29, 2012, 08:00:05 PM »
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  • Thomas Drolesky said:
    Quote
    Some might protest by claiming that these "abuses" can be corrected, that a "strict adherence" to "brain death" needs to be maintained. What idiocy. What utter idiocy. Do we really expect those who believe in the killing of babies in their mothers' wombs to be honest about anything? Anything?


    So because they are wrong about abortion ( and antidepressants, in my opinion ) that means they must be wrong about everything?

    We know that conciliarists are destroying the Church... Does that mean they are wrong about Padre Pio being a saint? Are they wrong to say they're against ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ marraige? If we do the opposite of what they say, will we find the truth? Or is it rather truth mixed with error that we get from them?

    Doctors who perform abortion do not consider themselves murderers.
    Therefore, they do not consider themselves completely unethical, and may in fact be ethical in certain ways.

    Yes, they are tricking themselves, but the idea that they can NEVER be right because they are aborting babies, does not hold true. It should be pointed out that Gratian in his canon law does not even call abortion murder, saying that people should be careful before leveling that charge. It is actually very easy for an atheist to trick himself into believing that abortion is not murder, while it would not be possible for him to deceive himself the same way if he strangled someone with his bare hands. It's not like doctors are in the same category as Jeffrey Dahmer, even if ultimately they are committing murder objectively...

    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #8 on: September 29, 2012, 08:06:03 PM »
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  • Thomas Droleskey said:
    Quote
    This is monstrous. It is even more monstrous and scandalous beyond all telling that any Roman Catholic, no less members of clergy, could be party to encouraging parishioners to become accomplices in their own executions and that of their loved ones. Such men are not reliable moral guides.


    I doubt any clergy have thrown their weight behind the concept of brain death, in the sense they are certain it's morally permissible; what they are saying is they are not qualified to judge, not to mention they do not have ordinary jurisdiction. It's called prudence.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #9 on: September 29, 2012, 08:15:28 PM »
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  • Great thread.  I think it's another slippery slope.  In China, according to a BBC article I read, they have a plane that will fly a medical team and live donor (usually a political prisoner, who is in good health) anywhere in the world and sell you his organs, even if it results in the "donor's" death.

    State Sponsored Murder (of the politically incorrect!)

    we're next!   :jester:



    Offline JohnGrey

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    « Reply #10 on: September 29, 2012, 08:29:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    I have no doubt, knowing how rotten and greedy the medical industry is, that certain people are harvested for organs. But who can say that there is no such thing as brain death, ever, with absolute certainty? Is Thomas Droleskey a doctor?

    We need good Catholic doctors with integrity to research this. That will be in the future, presuming that this level of technology is achieved again.


    Murder is the unlawful separation of the soul and body.  The soul is that which animates the body, that is, that component whose lack of presence would signal the putrefaction of the corporeal substance.  These poor murdered souls still have a pulse, blood pressure, and proper regulation of body temperature.  In many cases there is demonstrable response to external stimuli.  But because, at that moment, there is no external evidence of cognition, they consider that the "death of person."  Thus we see the slippery slope that has begun in the name of the perverse notion of life.  A child often takes several years before there is any evidence of cognition beyond simple response to stimuli.  The mentally handicapped often never reach any real developmental milestones.  May we say then the child maybe killed before it draws its first breath?  Before it makes its first latch or says its first word?  May we euthanize those pitiful individuals that will never have the great and terrible duty, of working toward salvation, that follows self-awareness?

    That which lives does so by the grace of God.  To hasten the end of life is to murder, whether the person understands their impending demise or not.


    Offline JohnGrey

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    « Reply #11 on: September 29, 2012, 08:32:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    Thomas Droleskey said:
    Quote
    This is monstrous. It is even more monstrous and scandalous beyond all telling that any Roman Catholic, no less members of clergy, could be party to encouraging parishioners to become accomplices in their own executions and that of their loved ones. Such men are not reliable moral guides.


    I doubt any clergy have thrown their weight behind the concept of brain death, in the sense they are certain it's morally permissible; what they are saying is they are not qualified to judge, not to mention they do not have ordinary jurisdiction. It's called prudence.


    They may not have the faculties to say for certain but, given the very dire matter of life and death, does justice not require them to err on the side of those that cannot speak for themselves?  They may not have jurisdiction but they have the same God-given voice by which they can tell the world that what is happening is wrong.

    Offline Graham

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    « Reply #12 on: October 06, 2012, 10:21:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: JohnGrey
    Quote from: Raoul76
    I have no doubt, knowing how rotten and greedy the medical industry is, that certain people are harvested for organs. But who can say that there is no such thing as brain death, ever, with absolute certainty? Is Thomas Droleskey a doctor?

    We need good Catholic doctors with integrity to research this. That will be in the future, presuming that this level of technology is achieved again.


    Murder is the unlawful separation of the soul and body.  The soul is that which animates the body, that is, that component whose lack of presence would signal the putrefaction of the corporeal substance.  These poor murdered souls still have a pulse, blood pressure, and proper regulation of body temperature.  In many cases there is demonstrable response to external stimuli.  But because, at that moment, there is no external evidence of cognition, they consider that the "death of person."  Thus we see the slippery slope that has begun in the name of the perverse notion of life.  A child often takes several years before there is any evidence of cognition beyond simple response to stimuli.  The mentally handicapped often never reach any real developmental milestones.  May we say then the child maybe killed before it draws its first breath?  Before it makes its first latch or says its first word?  May we euthanize those pitiful individuals that will never have the great and terrible duty, of working toward salvation, that follows self-awareness?

    That which lives does so by the grace of God.  To hasten the end of life is to murder, whether the person understands their impending demise or not.


    Thanks for an excellent post John. Have a look at this thread if you haven't seen it before, it covers the same ground:

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=18343&min=0&num=5

    Offline Nadir

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    « Reply #13 on: October 07, 2012, 12:15:48 AM »
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  • Raoul76 said:
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    But who can say that there is no such thing as brain death, ever, with absolute certainty? ...

    We need good Catholic doctors with integrity to research this. That will be in the future, presuming that this level of technology is achieved again.


    This is not for the future. All the evidence is already there. Why is it that "brain dead" "donors" need to be immobilised while they are being cut open?

    We have many good doctors who have already reseached this. You can find some of them here: http://www.organfacts.net/organdon/drpbyrne/

    The fact that "brain death" is not death is evidenced by the numbers of people who have been "brain dead" and returned to live a fulfilling life. There are many stories. I know of one personally.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Nadir

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    « Reply #14 on: October 07, 2012, 12:37:07 AM »
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  • Raoul76 said:
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    Doctors who perform abortion do not consider themselves murderers. Therefore, they do not consider themselves completely unethical, and may in fact be ethical in certain ways.


    You are talking about things you know little about. Abortionists know better than anyone else just what they doing. Which is one reason there is such a turnover in staff at abortuaries. They see the remains of the babies they have killed, and sometimes they kill the babies who survive abortion.

    Meet the abortion providers: http://prolifeaction.org/providers/

    Society of Centurions: Helping Abortionists Heal http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/weekly/aa020701a.htm
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.