Author Topic: BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy  (Read 2287 times)

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Offline BumphreyHogart

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BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
« on: March 14, 2017, 03:35:47 PM »
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  • Can we here get a gradual tally of what each clergy member holds?
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

    Offline DirigeNos

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 04:54:44 PM »
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  • I never understood why BoD was such a divisive topic among traditional Catholic clergy - to the extent of having the Feeneyites break away. There are many other dogmas that have been popular which protestants rejected throughout history. And yes, I group Feeneyites with the protestants because they can't reject any of the three types of Baptism and still call themselves Catholics. The council of Trent acknowledged the ability of baptism by desire.

    If a person is seeking the Faith by all their natural and God given means, and is in a place (for example a third world country) where there are no priests, and their family is ignorant of the necessity of Baptism by water, and the person dies, can that person not make it to heaven? Are they saying that God's mercy cannot extend to the truly ignorant? Even more evident by Baptism of blood. Of course a true martyr can make it to heaven.

    Now, perhaps it is a popular counter attack in response to the Lutheran: grace alone, faith alone, scripture alone. Thousands of protestants believe that the Catholic's "necessary outward signs" namely, the sacraments, are deplorable - that they should be forsaken because everyone is saved by Faith. This is easily refutable - scripture itself says that "sola scriptura" is false. The Bible does not claim to contain all that is necessary - tradition is the other pillar. From tradition, hence the sacraments, and the "works" portion - charity. Faith and works is required of every Catholic in order to get to heaven.

    Now, if a person has Faith, and performs whatever works they can to seek out Baptism/ entrance into God's church, but does not receive the sacramental baptism through no fault of their own, they could make it to heaven. They are still not counted as members of the church, but their soul may be saved. I say "could" because we cannot ever say for sure that someone is damned. The exception would be those few in history whom God has revealed are in hell. Judas, for example. By action and desire, a person may deserve and receive grace from God enough to save them. Remember the suicide jumper who made it to purgatory because from the time he jumped until before he hit the water he asked God for forgiveness with a sincere contrition. Another example: the good thief... "this day thou shalt be with Me in paradise".


    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 05:17:37 PM »
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  • I think, ultimately, the question is, "Does any Resistance priest approve of doubting anything in the Baltimore Catechism?"
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

    Offline tdrev123

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 05:26:55 PM »
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  • Fr Gavin Bitzer has his confirmations done by Bp Williamson.  He is an ex-sspx priest and he denies BoD.

    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 05:39:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: tdrev123
    Fr Gavin Bitzer has his confirmations done by Bp Williamson.  He is an ex-sspx priest and he denies BoD.


    Does Bp. Williamson, then, know that Fr. Bitzer thinks it's okay for the faithful to actually doubt anything in the Baltimore Catechism?
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #5 on: March 14, 2017, 05:46:29 PM »
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  • Father Joe Pfeiffer is a rabid Cushingite.

    Who cares about the Baltmore Catechism anyway?  It was put out by the Americanists and is not Magisterial.

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 05:53:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: DirigeNos
    I never understood why BoD was such a divisive topic among traditional Catholic clergy - to the extent of having the Feeneyites break away. There are many other dogmas that have been popular which protestants rejected throughout history. And yes, I group Feeneyites with the protestants because they can't reject any of the three types of Baptism and still call themselves Catholics.


    You probably never heard this before:

    One Lord, one faith, one baptism. (Eph 4:5).
    or
    I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. (Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed)

    If you are serious about actually learning something on this question, take your post to the Baptism of Desire sub-forum to Crisis in the Church.  Suffice to say, the problem concerns what is dogma?  What is the nature of dogma?  If you do not know the right answer to this questions, you cannot know or defend the faith.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 05:54:32 PM »
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  • I am not asking for arguments. I am simply asking for facts here.
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 06:19:08 PM »
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  • I believe that most of them are indeed Cushingites.

    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    « Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 06:57:44 PM »
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  • I see the moderator of this site moved this to this sub-forum. But my question was not designed to ask for opinions. I only asked for facts about the stand of current Resistance clergy

    As well, I notice that I was prevented from thumbing up a responder who was in favor of BoD!!  Why?
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

    Offline DirigeNos

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 08:10:31 PM »
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  • Of the six or seven resistance priests I know, none of them have preached against BoD that I have ever heard. As for the question itself, I would recommend "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" Dr. Ludwig Ott, 1915/1954.


    Offline Motorede

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 08:52:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: DirigeNos
    Of the six or seven resistance priests I know, none of them have preached against BoD that I have ever heard. As for the question itself, I would recommend "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" Dr. Ludwig Ott, 1915/1954.


    It's curious that Dr. Ott states at the beginning of his section on Baptism: Since the promulgation of the Gospel water is absolutely necessary for salvation, and cites John 3:5 as proof. Classifies this as "De Fide".

    Next he contradicts himself using "BoD" as a substitute for water if  impossible to get water. Classifies this as "Sententia Certa".

    So much for the word "absolutely".

    Offline happenby

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #12 on: March 14, 2017, 09:11:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    I am not asking for arguments. I am simply asking for facts here.


    You can't handle the facts.

    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 08:00:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: happenby
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    I am not asking for arguments. I am simply asking for facts here.


    You can't handle the facts.


    The facts I am asking about in this thread is the position of the individual Resistance clergy. I will accept any facts on that.
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    BoD Position of SSPX Resistance clergy
    « Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 12:16:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Father Joe Pfeiffer is a rabid Cushingite.

    Who cares about the Baltmore Catechism anyway?  It was put out by the Americanists and is not Magisterial.


    http://archives.sspx.org/miscellaneous/feeneyism/three_baptisms.htm

    [Disclaimer:  this article is complete garbage.]

     

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