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Offline obscurus

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More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
« on: September 29, 2015, 03:55:58 AM »
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  • UPDATE: There is a thread containing links to ALL the threads about so-called Bishop Ambrose Moran:

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-Mr-Ambrose-Moran-the-Orthodox


    Someone who is knowledgeable about these matters said the following on the ByzCath forum:

    Quote
    If you can bring yourself to watch and listen to the first of the youtube videos linked above, your head will spin.

    Ambrose claims to have been in high school during VII (opened in 62, closed in 65). Ordained priest in 1974 and ordained to the episcopate in 1976 (fastest elevation in history, perhaps) to enter the USSR and ordain bishops for the UGCC in Ukraine. But, strangely he gets sent to the US - where he serves in Ruthenian and Ukrainian parishes and he's ordered by HB Joseph to help out the Latins (because why?) and, meantime, he's helping Fenton and the ORCM. "I was advised to head one of these jurisdictions" - what jurisdictions?

    The man has an imagination beyond belief.

    I reviewed several volumes of the Official Catholic Directory from the 70s and 80s and find no listing for him among the clergy. Likewise, I don't recollect any references to him in the histories of any Ruthenian or UGCC parish in the US during the period that he describes. He began to show up in occasional internet references in the early 21st century - with UAOC-C, then GOC, now he's going for SSPX Resistence.

    He seems to have managed to get his picture taken in Rome (if indeed those are of him) - hard to do? Nope, definitely not in the 70s or 80s. Around that time, Eastern bishops, up to and including Patriarchs, were notoriously easily led into acceptance of all manner of clergy offering claims of their presbyteral provenance and dressing the part - it's scary but it definitely happened, especially those who claimed to be jumping from some other, non-Catholic, jurisdiction (I suspect that the view was - thank goodness, we've saved another one).

    The short of it - Ambrose is a bishop in his mind, and appears to have mastered his spiel very well, since he repeats it nearly perfectly from one time to the next (always a plus, lest someone realize the story's changed). He has an answer for everything, conveniently eludes some points - like his time with the GOC, has no names for 2 of his 3 episcopal consecrators.

    The man is a classic vagante.

    Many years,

    Neil


    http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/413177/Re:_Question_about_a_Vagante_B#Post413177
    _________________________

    Offline Ladislaus

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #1 on: September 29, 2015, 02:13:48 PM »
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  • So, in another video put up by Pablo, in Ambrose's sermon at the compound:

    Ambrose claims that he was ordained to the priesthood by Cardinal Slipyj in 1974.

    Then he claims that he was consecrated a bishop in 1976 by Cardinal Slipyj (with co-consecrators consisting of a bishop sent by the Melchite Patriarch Maximos V and a Ukrainian diocesan bishop).  He claims that he was consecrated so young in order to sneak behind the Iron Curtain and consecrate bishops for the clandestine underground Church.  Claims that he has no papal mandate because Slipyj had autonomy to consecrate whoever he wanted.

    This should be pretty easy to verify; those records of the handful of bishops consecrated for this purpose have long since been released.

    He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj personally asked him to perform confirmations in the Latin Rite at St. Jude Shrine in Houston, TX (because he grew up acquainted with both the Ukrainian and the Latin Rites).  This was allegedly because Cardinal Slipyj had a close working relationship with Archbishop Lefebvre.  St. Jude Shrine was apparently under then-Father George Musey.

    He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj designated him his "successor" and that he now has the canonical status of "Patriarch."

    Claims that John Paul II met with him and referred to him as "Josaphat the New".

    I personally know the brother of the current Ukrainian Patriarch (a priest).  I will ask him to check into Ambrose.





    Offline covet truth

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #2 on: September 29, 2015, 03:30:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    So, in another video put up by Pablo, in Ambrose's sermon at the compound:

    Ambrose claims that he was ordained to the priesthood by Cardinal Slipyj in 1974.

    Then he claims that he was consecrated a bishop in 1976 by Cardinal Slipyj (with co-consecrators consisting of a bishop sent by the Melchite Patriarch Maximos V and a Ukrainian diocesan bishop).  He claims that he was consecrated so young in order to sneak behind the Iron Curtain and consecrate bishops for the clandestine underground Church.  Claims that he has no papal mandate because Slipyj had autonomy to consecrate whoever he wanted.

    This should be pretty easy to verify; those records of the handful of bishops consecrated for this purpose have long since been released.

    He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj personally asked him to perform confirmations in the Latin Rite at St. Jude Shrine in Houston, TX (because he grew up acquainted with both the Ukrainian and the Latin Rites).  This was allegedly because Cardinal Slipyj had a close working relationship with Archbishop Lefebvre.  St. Jude Shrine was apparently under then-Father George Musey.

    He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj designated him his "successor" and that he now has the canonical status of "Patriarch."

    Claims that John Paul II met with him and referred to him as "Josaphat the New".

    I personally know the brother of the current Ukrainian Patriarch (a priest).  I will ask him to check into Ambrose.



    I can't speak to much of this history but I can speak to what is related here about St. Jude Shrine.  First of all it is not a designated shrine.  Its ownership is in the name of Guiffre Family.  Archbishop Lefebvre blessed it but beyond that and the Confirmations he gave in 1975 (if I remember correctly) there is no connection whatsoever with the Archbishop. There was a falling out with the Guiffres' which resulted in the exodus of the congregation, Fr. Hector Bolduc, and Father Carl Pulvermacher who within a year bought another property in Dickinson, Texas.  St. Jude's became a sedevacantist group and remains so to this day.  If this 'bishop' ever came there I can't say but it definitely would not have been on the recommendation of the Archbishop who had terminated any relationship with this place.  The actual span of time of the relationship between the SSPX and St. Jude's was only several months.

    Father Musey had been a priest of the Houston-Galveston Diocese but having suffered some heart problems was not practicing as a priest but instead was managing a family restaurant in Dickinson during the 1970's.  Somehow he was enlisted by the Guiffre family to come to St. Jude's and subsequently was made a "bishop".  He would have had to be a sede also or the family would not have accepted him.  If this "bishop" Ambrose came to St. Jude's as he says he would have been a sede at that time.    

    Offline StonewallCatho

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #3 on: September 29, 2015, 03:52:50 PM »
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  • Bishop Ambrose Moran is a member of an Orthodox Church!

    I have searched on the Net, and came up with the following information from an Orthodox Church:

    "In 2007, Archbishop Gregory received Archbishop Ambrose (Moran-Dolgorouky) of New York City, one of many episcopi vagantes who claim to have been consecrated by independent Ukrainian bishops, into the GOCA. After his reception, he participated in the consecration of Archimandrite John (Egan) as Bishop of Colorado Springs, along with Archbishop Gregory, on January 6, 2008."  

    Here is the link to the website:

     http://orthodoxwiki.org/Genuine_Orthodox_Church_of_America

    I would add this: If ever this bishop would be genuine, we would have heard of him many years ago. The world of Tradition is so small! Imagine: If really a true Catholic bishop would have helped traditional Catholics in the USA, as a friend of Archbishop Lefebvre, for how long would this have remained a secret?

    God bless you all.



    Offline Henry101

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #4 on: September 29, 2015, 04:15:59 PM »
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  • I really didn't want to fan the flames of this story more but I just want to add one quick idea quickly.

    The old Code of Cannon Law was much stricter on the ordination of Eastern Catholic Bishops. The synod of the Church had to submit extensive dossiers to Rome for approval from the "Affairs of the Oriental Rites" (now, Congregation of the Oriental Churches).

    In the new Code of Cannon Law, unless there is a "just cause" the Holy See Congregation of Oriental Churches does nothing besides approving candidates. They do the same thing with cathedrals. The bishops/synods of the Churches have authority to ordain bishops/designate cathedrals/etc. However, they have to notify the Congregation to obtain approval (which is normally granted). This is just a gesture to further emphasize their unity with Rome and keep correct count for the annuarium pontificium.

    One recent example of the newly elected Patriarch of Armenian Catholics, His Beatitude Gregorius Petrus XX Ghabroyan. His Beatitude is 81 years old and way past the normal retirement age for bishops. However, the bishops synod elected him Patriarch. Rome has no authority or "just" ground to not approve his election and he was approved immediately.

    I don't understand Bishop William/Ambrose's timeline well enough, but, if he was a validly ordained bishops, there will be a paper trail somewhere. The easiest was would be to check the annuarium pontificium for the year he claims to be ordained a bishop. His name should be listed.


    Offline Caraffa

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 11:38:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Clemens Maria
    Recusant from Te Deum posted this:

    Quote
    Tonight I Spoke to a priest friend of mine who was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre. He met "Fr." Bill Moran in 1976 at Huntington, Long Island. This was when the Archbishop came to NY for the sacrament of Confirmation. Moran lived in his parents basement when my priest friend (who was around 17 at the time) had visited with him. Father remembers that he showed him music albums that had immodest pictures of young woman on them and he left promptly. Bishop Kelly, while still a member of the SSPX, investigated Moran and found out that the person, whom he said ordained him, was actually a janitor at a school in Long Island!

    If you watch the interview video, you will notice that there is a photograph of Ambrose with a caption that says "Father William Moran."


    Thank you Recusant!



    This is consistent with the information I have found on him so far. Apparently he was briefly associated with the ORCM at one point. My guess is that the ORCM eventually found out that he was a fraud sometime in the the late 1970's.

    I found an advertisement for a Tridentine Requiem Mass for Sen. Joseph McCarthy in The Bridgeport Telegram in April 1977 that reads as follows:

    IN MEMORY OF A GREAT AMERICAN
    SENATOR JOSEPH R. MCCARTHY
    who died prematurely on May 2, 1957
    A REQUIEM MASS— TRIDENTINE .
    (The Mass Senator McCarthy attended and loved)
    MONDAY, MAY 2, AT 11:00 A.M. IN THE PRIVATE CHAPEL OF
    OUR LADY OF THE MAGNIFICAT
    215 BENNETT STREET, FAIRFIELD, CONN.


    THE REV. FR. DELMAR S. MARKLE
    CELEBRANT: THE REV. FR. ROBERT McKENNA, O.P.
    PREACHER: THE REV. FR. WILLIAM MORAN




    Odd that he would state that he worked with then Fr. Musey, but not Fr. McKenna O.P. Perhaps that's because that latter was more widely known and is still alive.
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline poche

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015, 11:44:25 PM »
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  • Ambrose claims that he was ordained to the priesthood by Cardinal Slipyj in 1974.

    Then he claims that he was consecrated a bishop in 1976 by Cardinal Slipyj (with co-consecrators consisting of a bishop sent by the Melchite Patriarch Maximos V and a Ukrainian diocesan bishop). He claims that he was consecrated so young in order to sneak behind the Iron Curtain and consecrate bishops for the clandestine underground Church. Claims that he has no papal mandate because Slipyj had autonomy to consecrate whoever he wanted.

    I remember Cardinal Slipyji at that time. He was said to be very senile at that time.  

    Offline poche

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #7 on: September 29, 2015, 11:59:54 PM »
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  • He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj personally asked him to perform confirmations in the Latin Rite at St. Jude Shrine in Houston, TX (because he grew up acquainted with both the Ukrainian and the Latin Rites). This was allegedly because Cardinal Slipyj had a close working relationship with Archbishop Lefebvre. St. Jude Shrine was apparently under then-Father George Musey.

    He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj designated him his "successor" and that he now has the canonical status of "Patriarch."

    Cardinal Slipji was never a patriarch. The head of the Ukrianian Catholic Church is a metropolitan. There is a movement to name the head of the Ukrainian Catholic Church a patriarch and this is the cause of controversy and bad feelings between the Russian Orthodox Cjurch and the Catholic Church. When the Ukraine became free in the early 1990s Pope John Paul II named a different person to lead the Ukrainian Catholic Church out of its darkness. "Bishop" Ambrose was nowhere to be found.        


    Offline poche

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #8 on: September 30, 2015, 12:02:37 AM »
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  • He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj personally asked him to perform confirmations in the Latin Rite at St. Jude Shrine in Houston, TX (because he grew up acquainted with both the Ukrainian and the Latin Rites). This was allegedly because Cardinal Slipyj had a close working relationship with Archbishop Lefebvre. St. Jude Shrine was apparently under then-Father George Musey.

    The metropolitan has no authority to send the bishop on his own to go to another rite to do anything without the consent of the local ordinary and the Holy See.  

    Offline poche

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #9 on: September 30, 2015, 12:05:59 AM »
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  • He then claims that Cardinal Slipyj designated him his "successor" and that he now has the canonical status of "Patriarch."

    Cardinal Slipyji has no authority to designate a successor without confirmation by the Holy See. Where is that confirmation? How come he is here in the United States and not in the Ukraine where he is supposed to be if he were the Cardinal legitimate successor?  

    Offline Chiara

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    More info about Mr Bishop Ambrose Moran
    « Reply #10 on: September 30, 2015, 01:20:39 AM »
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  • From the St. Euphrosynos Forum, a discussion forum for Orthodox Christians:


    His Eminence, Archbishop Ambrose (Moran-Dolgorovky)
    of New York City and New York State

    To the Clergy and the Faithful of the Genuine Orthodox Church
    in North America, South America, Europe and Africa:

    Grace be unto you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord, Jesus Christ.
     
    Reverend and dear Fathers, and Faithful;

    It is with great joy that I write to you from the grace filled Paradise of Dormition Skete into which I have been accepted and numbered among the struggling monastic fathers. My greatest joy is that I have been accepted as a brother in the episcopate by His Eminence, Archbishop Gregory. You should know that this occurred because of the prayers of St. John Maximovitch who tonsured me a Rassophore monk and made provision for me to receive the Great Schema on Mt. Athos. He foretold that I would end my days in a grace filled monastery. This too has come to pass. I have been in conversation with Mother Mariam for over three years and her encouragement has brought me into communion with true confessing Orthodox Christians. Pray for me dear Fathers that I may live up to the expectations of my monastic Father, St. John Maximovitch and fulfill God’s Will for me in defending the Genuine Holy Orthodox Faith.
     
    I come to you in humility having been tonsured into monasticism over forty years ago and having served in the episcopate for over thirty years. I have served as Metropolitan of the Ukrainian Orthodox Synodal Jurisdiction and as Archbishop Exarch of the Patriarchate of Alexandria, and later as Epitropos of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem. Please keep in mind that in actuality I maintained in this country an Old-Calendar jurisdiction of the elderly clergy who served faithfully and not in communion with papal calendarists or with ecumenist heretics. Since, however, while in actuality remaining to ourselves, I did have recognition of the Patricarchates. Therefore, having sought, and by God’s Grace, found a confessing Hierarch in the person of His Eminence, Archbishop Gregory, I was received into communion, in humility, following profession of Faith, repentance for any association, knowing or unintentionally, with ecumenists. Having received the anointing with Holy Chrism and the laying on of hands of Archbishop Gregory, with the approval of Archbishop Makarios of Athens and all Greece, I ask for your prayers that I may remain a faithful monk in this grace filled monastery for the rest of my days and that I may serve all of you as a confessing hierarch no matter what the cost with God’s Assistance and your prayers. I am unworthy to have such a faithful brother hierarch and such faithful Orthodox Christians. Archbishop Gregory and I are one in mind and heart. I have never been happier or more peaceful than I am now in your midst. I thank you all for your prayers and best wishes. I look forward to hearing from you and to visiting with you in the future, God willing. I pray that we all may remain faithful to Holy Orthodoxy.
     
    I, the least of all monastics, am so unworthy to be numbered among you and to take up residence in this holy grace filled monastery. As Jesus tells us, “Without Me, you can do nothing.” But as St. Paul tells us, “I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me.” Pray for me Fathers that this unworthy hierarch in communion with all of you will be able to say with St. Paul, “I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me.”
     
    With Archpastoral blessings, I remain,

    +Archbishop Ambrose
    of New York City and New York State




    Reception of Archbishop Ambrose

    Dear Faithful,

    God bless you!

    We wish to announce to you the joyful event of the
    reception into the Genuine Orthodox Church of America of
    Archbishop Ambrose, the former representative of the
    Patriarchates of Jerusalem and Alexandria in the
    Americas. Growing up in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, he
    was ordained to all the degrees of the priesthood:
    deacon, priest, bishop, archbishop, and in 1984, he
    became head of the synod of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
    as its metropolitan consisting of 6 bishops.

    Archbishop Ambrose is Prince Regent of the Royal House of Serbia,
    descended from the Namanya family of Saint Savva. His
    Majesty, the late King Peter II of Yugoslavia, was his
    godfather. He is also descended from Saint Vladimir
    through the house of Dolgorouky and from the Paleologos
    Emperors of Constantinople. This is the lineage of
    Orthodox monarchs who defended the Faith and some of whom
    gave their lives in such pursuit.

    Archbishop Ambrose was born in 1949 in Manhattan, New
    York into the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. A significant
    turning point in Archbishop Ambrose's life occurred when
    at, sixteen years of age, his two royal Serbian aunts
    introduced him to Saint John Maximovitch in Manhattan.
    Saint John prophesied to the young man that he would
    serve the Church, and reach the rank of metropolitan. He
    then tonsured him a Rassophore Monk. He also gave him a
    letter, which he was to present to the abbot of Prophet
    Elias Skete on the Holy Mountain, when the appropriate
    time came to be tonsured to the Great Schema. This
    occurred when he was twenty-seven years old.

    Due to the heresy of Ecumenism, Archbishop Ambrose
    eventually was forced to seek true confessing bishops,
    which led him to the Genuine Orthodox Church of America.
    He had been searching since 1995 to find the true
    Orthodox Church in America, since he was an American. By
    the mercy of God and through the prayers of Saint John
    Maximovitch, he was led to us. Because he had been in
    communion with the Ecumenists of World Orthodoxy through
    the Ukrainian Church, he had to be received into our
    Church by Cheirothesia. After joint agreement with
    Archbishop Makarios of the Genuine Orthodox Church of
    Greece, Archbishop Gregory performed this reception. The
    Typicon for the reception of a hierarch in his orders
    consists of the following: first Archbishop Ambrose
    publicly and bareheadedly in the Cathedral of the
    Dormition read the Creed, and then read the Declaration,
    wherein he proclaimed his adherence to all the canons of
    the Seven Ecumenical Councils as well as the Regional
    Councils, and summarily condemned the Ecumenical heresy.
    He then signed the Declaration and presented it to his
    Eminence, Archbishop Gregory. Archbishop Ambrose then
    received anointing with holy Chrism. Then he was escorted
    into the sanctuary and knelt before the holy altar table,
    and the prayer of Laying-on-of-Hands (Cheirothesia) was
    read over him. At that time Archbishop Ambrose was then
    given his mitre and his episcopal staff. The two
    hierarchs concelebrated the Divine Liturgy with peace and
    love, which consummated the reception.

    Archbishop Ambrose joins the Church with the title of
    Archbishop of New York and New York State. We wish to
    congratulate Vladyka Ambrose and pray that God grants him
    many years.


    On this forum, there is the comment, "He tried to join others but was turned down. The fact that he claims he was an exarch of Alexandria..."that's what they all say."

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ng1eeQfbds8J:www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D8279+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
     


    Offline PG

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    « Reply #11 on: September 30, 2015, 01:27:15 AM »
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  • If anyone is a member of the te deum forum.  Please message the member recusant and have him contact his priest friend to confirm that those late 1970s usa pictures of the baby faced "fr. william/bill moran" are indeed the Fr. william/bill moran that he met in 1976 in huntington NY.  This is of the utmost importance.  Trust me.  I will explain why later.

     

    The photos in particular are from minute 4:00-5:30 with the newspaper one at 5:25.  

    Perhaps matthew can email him being that recusant is a member of cathinfo, but has not been active for about a year.  So, it would have to be his real email, and not just a PM like I could send him.  This is important matthew.  Ask recusant to confirm those images.
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline PG

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    « Reply #12 on: September 30, 2015, 01:40:09 AM »
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  • It is very interesting how ambrose moran mentioned in his sunday sermon that people claim that "he" is or used to be a school janitor.  And, recusant said that the then Fr. clarence kelly of the sspx late 70s days did an investigation into a fr. bill moran and concluded that he was "ordained" by a man who was actually just a "school janitor".  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline JMacQ

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    « Reply #13 on: September 30, 2015, 02:40:51 AM »
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  • So the prince regent patriarch metropolitan archbishop exarch epitropos successor of Cardinal Slipeyh who ordained him consecrated him and gave him secret missions approved by JP2 and ABL with personal universal jurisdiction protected by US presidents and duly informed of serious stuff by Vatican and Pentagon contacts...

    ... could be a fraud?

    But, but, but look at the pictures! And the ring of Pius XII! Surely William, sorry Ambrose must be a real patriarch!

     :roll-laugh1:
    O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
    Praised be Jesus ad Mary!

    "Is minic a gheibhean beal oscailt diog dunta"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #14 on: September 30, 2015, 05:57:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Cardinal Slipji was never a patriarch. The head of the Ukrianian Catholic Church is a metropolitan ... The metropolitan has no authority to send the bishop on his own to go to another rite to do anything without the consent of the local ordinary and the Holy See.


    Technically he may not be a "Patriarch" but internally the Ukrainians have always called their metropolitan a Patriarch; they still do to this day.

    From a geographical standpoint, the Ukrainian "Patriarch" overlaps Roman Rite territories.  Independent chapels not in direct submission to a Roman Rite bishops would constitute a gray area.

    So these are not concerns to me regarding Bishop Ambrose's story.

    As I said, I will ask the brother of the current Patriarch to investigate this man; he can send the request to his brother's office.  It will come out very quickly whether this man was ordained/consecrated by Slipyj.
     

     

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