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Author Topic: Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...  (Read 4506 times)

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Offline RbMjr

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Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
« on: October 13, 2013, 04:40:42 PM »
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  • I would like to ask questions about the SSPX and the "Resistance" please...

    Offline Matto

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #1 on: October 13, 2013, 04:43:51 PM »
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  • What questions would you like to ask?
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline John Grace

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #2 on: October 13, 2013, 04:47:40 PM »
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  • The most recent edition of a publication called The Recusant is probably the best place to answer your question. The link is here http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2013/09/23/the-recusant-issue-10-septemberoctober-2013/

    Offline RbMjr

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #3 on: October 13, 2013, 04:57:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    The most recent edition of a publication called The Recusant is probably the best place to answer your question. The link is here http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2013/09/23/the-recusant-issue-10-septemberoctober-2013/


    Thank you! I'll read this.

    I'm new here and am trying to learn as much as I can about the Resistance.

    Offline RbMjr

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #4 on: October 13, 2013, 05:51:04 PM »
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  • What is CathInfo's opinion of the Resistance?

    What is the significance of the Resistance movement?

    How come Bishop Fellay has kicked out so many SSPX Priests out? What have they done wrong?

    The Resistance movement seems to be gaining ground with Bishop Williamson and Fr. Jean Faure.

    It seems to be coming down to the SSPX talking with Rome and weakening their position, doesn't it? I don't think Archbishop Lefebvre would want this, so the Resistance are doing what he would do, right? No talking with Rome until they convert to Tradition (then there would be no need, really)?

    Thanks for the help.


    Offline Johnnier

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #5 on: October 14, 2013, 12:28:01 AM »
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  • What is CathInfo's opinion of the Resistance?

    What is the significance of the Resistance movement?- Not much.

    How come Bishop Fellay has kicked out so many SSPX Priests out? What have they done wrong? - They tried to make themselves popes.

    The Resistance movement seems to be gaining ground with Bishop Williamson and Fr. Jean Faure.

    It seems to be coming down to the SSPX talking with Rome and weakening their position, doesn't it? I don't think Archbishop Lefebvre would want this, so the Resistance are doing what he would do, right? No talking with Rome until they convert to Tradition (then there would be no need, really)?  - Not. The Archbishop always kept an open door policy regarding Rome. Even after his death, this policy continued, hence the doctrinal discussion, to which no one at the time seemed to object.

    ‘Why do I maintain relations with Rome? Why do I keep going to Rome? Because I think that Rome is the center of Catholicism, because I think that there cannot be any Catholic Church without Rome. Consequently, if our purpose is to find a way of setting the Church straight again, it is by turning to Rome that maybe, with the grace of God, we may perhaps manage to set the situation straight. It is not one single bishop like myself who can set the whole situation straight in the Catholic Church. That is why I strive to keep on going to Rome and to plead the cause of Tradition.’ –Conference of Archbishop Lefebvre given at Long Island, NY on November 5, 1983

    Offline InDominoSperavi

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #6 on: October 14, 2013, 03:40:15 AM »
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  • Dear RbMjr,
    Sorry for the mistakes of English, I'm French. Johnier is new on this forum ( or if he was there a long time ago, he was very discret). And he keeps criticizing the Resistance. He is a pro-Bp Fellay. Read all the publications of the Recusant and you'll have the best possible information with quotes etc. You also have that :
    http://fr.gloria.tv/?media=406255
    and that :
    http://www.truetrad.com/index.php/poison?start=36

    Abp Lefebvre changed his mind, and a few months before his death he wrote, for example in his last book , Spiritual Journey :
    “It is, therefore, a strict duty for every priest wanting to remain Catholic to separate himself from this Conciliar Church for as long as it does not rediscover the Tradition of the Church and of the Catholic Faith.” (in the French edition, it is p.31 of the book)

    Offline Johnnier

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 03:46:04 PM »
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  • You might also find this talk of Fr. Themann informative - hearing the other side helps give clarity amidst so much misinformation.

    http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/sspx-falsely-accused-resistance-what-1672


    Offline JPaul

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 06:20:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: InDominoSperavi
    Dear RbMjr,
    Sorry for the mistakes of English, I'm French. Johnier is new on this forum ( or if he was there a long time ago, he was very discret). And he keeps criticizing the Resistance. He is a pro-Bp Fellay. Read all the publications of the Recusant and you'll have the best possible information with quotes etc. You also have that :
    http://fr.gloria.tv/?media=406255
    and that :
    http://www.truetrad.com/index.php/poison?start=36

    Abp Lefebvre changed his mind, and a few months before his death he wrote, for example in his last book , Spiritual Journey :
    “It is, therefore, a strict duty for every priest wanting to remain Catholic to separate himself from this Conciliar Church for as long as it does not rediscover the Tradition of the Church and of the Catholic Faith.” (in the French edition, it is p.31 of the book)


    He is a Menzingen apologist.

    Offline JPaul

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 06:22:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Johnnier
    You might also find this talk of Fr. Themann informative - hearing the other side helps give clarity amidst so much misinformation.

    http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/sspx-falsely-accused-resistance-what-1672


    He is directing you to another Menzingen apologist.

     Read the Doctrinal Declaration of 2012 and understand the plain and objective meaning of its words.  Then make your determination. You do not require an interpreter or spin to understand it.

    Offline Johnnier

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #10 on: October 15, 2013, 07:00:12 PM »
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  • JP,

    Yes, that is true, I am sure he can make up his own mind. He can see things for himself. But with that same logic, we also have no need for any of the resistance spin on things either. Would you agree with that?

    In fact with that same logic, we don't need a magisterium, a hierarchy, a Church, for each man can be his own pope, his own authority, and interpret things as he best things. Hmm. . . . now that reminds me of a heresy called Protestantism . .. . O' now that may just my spin on things. :)



    Offline Charlotte NC Bill

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 09:32:22 PM »
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  • well that's OK..Fr. Themann's conference has convinced more people of the rightness of the Resistance than the other way around...Especially when you listen to fr. Pfeiffer's and Fr. Hewko's responses to it.

    Offline paxtecum111

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #12 on: October 21, 2013, 07:33:13 PM »
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  • RbMjr asked:
    I'm new here and am trying to learn as much as I can about the Resistance.

    Paxtecuм111 answers:
    Bishop Fellay wants to join the Conciliar Church rather than convert it. The SSPX priests who have either quit or been expelled are exemplary Catholics who do not want to betray the Catholic Church. Don't listen to the spinmeisters, RbMjr.

     

    Offline B from A

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #13 on: October 21, 2013, 08:45:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: RbMjr
    It seems to be coming down to the SSPX talking with Rome and weakening their position, doesn't it? I don't think Archbishop Lefebvre would want this, so the Resistance are doing what he would do, right?  No talking deal with Rome until they convert to Tradition (then there would be no need, really)?

    Thanks for the help.


    You summed it up pretty well, especially the part I put in bold.
    I changed the word "talking" to "deal", because talking to NewRome might be okay, if every time you did you simply said things like:

    Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre to Ratzinger
    Eminence, even if you give us everything--a bishop, some autonomy from the bishops, the 1962 liturgy, allow us to continue our seminaries--we cannot work together because we are going in different directions. You are working to dechristianize society and the Church, and we are working to Christianize them.

    and/or
    Quote from: Archbishop Lefebvre
    “Do you agree with the great encyclicals of all the popes who preceded you? Do you agree with Quanta Cura of Pius IX, Immortale Dei and Libertas of Leo XIII, Pascendi Gregis of Pius X, Quas Primas of Pius XI, Humani Generis of Pius XII? Are you in full communion with these Popes and their teachings? Do you still accept the entire Anti-Modernist Oath? Are you in favor of the social reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ? If you do not accept the doctrine of your predecessors, it is useless to talk! As long as you do not accept the correction of the Council, in consideration of the doctrine of these Popes, your predecessors, no dialogue is possible. It is useless.”
    source

    If +F would have had a form letter with those quotes on it the past many years, and every time someone from NewChurch wanted to talk, he simply sent out the form letter, he could have saved a lot of time and grief and worse.  I'm glad you mentioned the "weakening their position" aspect, because, although the "deal" was what got what most here think of as "The Resistance" started last year (although as some point out, there are priests who started resisting much sooner), the real problem is really not the "deal" with NewRome so much as the fact that the SSPX has changed - and the effects that has and will have.  But others can and have explained it much better than I can, so.....

    Here is material to read up on the Resistance:

    Collection of Resistance Writings
    sermons
    The Recusant - Reference Materials
    The Recusant - Articles
    location/description of a book on the 2012 crisis
    Is This Operation ѕυιcιdє? - An Analysis of the evidence relating to an agreement between the Society of Saint Pius X and the Conciliar Church of Rome (book to download)

    (book to buy)

    non-USA websites:
    [url=http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/]Non Possumus

    Avec l'Immaculée
    La Sapinière
    Sacrificium.org



    There should be enough reference material there to keep you busy for a while.   :smile:







    Offline JPaul

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    Questions about the SSPX and the Resistance...
    « Reply #14 on: October 21, 2013, 09:30:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: Johnnier
    JP,

    Yes, that is true, I am sure he can make up his own mind. He can see things for himself. But with that same logic, we also have no need for any of the resistance spin on things either. Would you agree with that?

    In fact with that same logic, we don't need a magisterium, a hierarchy, a Church, for each man can be his own pope, his own authority, and interpret things as he best things. Hmm. . . . now that reminds me of a heresy called Protestantism . .. . O' now that may just my spin on things. :)


    One must say that it is a scandal that there should have to be a resistance at all, and I have a great disappointment that the Society lead by Bishop Fellay has become the cause of the scandals of liberalizing and turning the whole thing into a business affair.
    We all thought that we had security and certainty with the SSPX. It was a shock to wake up and realize that we were one step from being another FSSP desiring to join in with the traitorous Ecclesia Dei crowd.

    Instead of certainty we now have modernist doublespeak and confusion upon confusion.