Author Topic: Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III  (Read 11722 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Beatifico

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Reputation: +0/-0
Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
« on: September 20, 2013, 08:32:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  HORRIBLE FALL III

    Number CCCXXIII (323)       21 September 2013
    ________________________________________HORRIBLE FALL III
    Last June readers of these “Comments” were promised a third article on the horrible fall of the Society of St Pius X, to consider what can be done. Just recently there appeared on the website “Avec l’Immaculée” an article with some good answers to this question, starting with the question whether Catholics can go on attending SSPX Masses. I summarize and adapt:--

    In 1984 an Indult from Rome allowed the Tridentine Mass to be celebrated, under certain conditions, within the framework of the official Church. Asked whether Catholics could attend these Masses, Archbishop Lefebvre replied soon after that they should not attend, because their re-entering the mainstream framework under those conditions was tantamount to accepting Vatican II and the subsequent reforms. The priests saying Indult Masses would not be able to speak freely, and by accepting implicitly the New Mass with the Indult, they would risk sliding into the new Conciliar religion and taking their people with them.

    In 2012 Bishop Fellay declared that the New Mass was legitimately promulgated, which is tantamount to saying that it is legitimate. He stifles critics of Vatican II, and while still keeping priests and people as much in the dark as possible as to what he is really up to, he steadily pushes forward the ideas of his pro-Conciliar Declaration of April, 2012. Therefore just as the Archbishop ruled out attending Indult Masses, so now, as a general rule, attending SSPX Masses should be ruled out, because even if this particular Mass is still celebrated in accordance with Tradition, the SSPX is being remoulded in general as a framework within which the new Conciliar religion is less and less disapproved, so that there is more and more of a danger in attending its Masses.

    However, particular SSPX priests vary from the genuinely Traditional to the virtually Conciliar. Obviously there is less danger in attending Masses of the former than of the latter, but if the priest concerned either defends and approves of the new direction being imposed by SSPX HQ, or if he persecutes and excludes from the sacraments anybody taking any part in the Resistance, these are two signs that his Masses should be avoided, especially if there is the Mass of a resisting priest not too far away. But circumstances do also come into play, so that if, for instance, one’s children risk being thrown out of a still decent SSPX school, that may justify still attending the local SSPX Mass. When the trunk of a tree is rotting, there can still be branches bearing green leaves.

    The fact remains that the trunk of the SSPX is mortally stricken, without hope, humanly speaking, of recovery. Like the Synagogue between the death of Our Lord on the Cross and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D, it is carrying death within it, but it is not yet dead. Apostles preached there, and good Jews still attended, but they were all persecuted and eventually thrown out. If a Catholic can see today that throughout the body of the SSPX, from the head downwards, the deadly virus of a disguised Conciliar mentality is coursing, he must take action to help rescue as many souls as possible before they make shipwreck in the faith with the sinking lifeboat.
    Let him, to forge his own convictions, read all he can lay his hands on, starting with the exchange of letters between the three bishops and Bishop Fellay in April of 2012. Let him talk to priests and fellow-parishioners, to co-ordinate, for instance, the putting together of refuges for priests who might not otherwise take action. There is much to be done, however few there are, at least for the moment, to do it. God is with these few.

    Kyrie eleison.
       



    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3126
    • Reputation: +3196/-13
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #1 on: September 20, 2013, 09:36:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is disappointing:

    It would seem that Bishop Williamson is coming under the influence of Fr. Pfeiffer, rather than the other way around.

    Bishop Williamson's position was the more balanced of the two conflicting opinions on SSPX Mass attendance.

    To say that, as a general rule, one ought not attend SSPX Masses is an unfortunate slide toward the erroneous Fr. Pfeiffer position.

    Natural enough, I suppose, since Fr. Pfeiffer is in the leadership position.

    But as His Lordship said when he was here in St. Paul:

    "Those who do not act the way they think, will begin to think the way they act."

    Bishop Williamson should have condemned Fr. Pfeiffer's "red light" long ago.

    For one reason or another, he did not.

    And so now he endorses it.

    With qualifications, but nevertheless...
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-



    Offline rlee

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 81
    • Reputation: +89/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #2 on: September 20, 2013, 09:56:25 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • After re-reading it I still get a "yellow light" message, depending on the circumstances.

    But I also get, and welcome, the call to arms to get the Resistance kick-started as  a viable and available alternative.

    The problem remains for many access to the sacraments, and the incredible judgements one must make in trying one's best to fulfill one's duty, so important that it is one of the five precepts of the Church, to assist at Mass on Sundays.

    Then, if one has a family, it can really get dicey.

    I understand that in past threads on this some people have posted vigorously about the "necessity" to walk away from the SSPX immediately.

    It is not that simple to translate a proper principle into action given all the conflicting considerations of Faith involved.

    And I think +Williamson has done great service in saying so in this "Comments" edition.

    God bless him.

    Offline curioustrad

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 427
    • Reputation: +364/-7
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #3 on: September 20, 2013, 10:03:17 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Let us not suggest who may be influencing whom. Let us rather ask a much more interesting question: why now ?

    Just a few weeks ago +W was spouting ( a word he loves btw) on whether one could go to the NOM or not now it's the SSPX with quite an opposite extreme position.

    AGAIN: WHY NOW ?

    Offline parentsfortruth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3820
    • Reputation: +2658/-2
    • Gender: Female
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #4 on: September 21, 2013, 12:42:17 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: curioustrad
    Let us not suggest who may be influencing whom. Let us rather ask a much more interesting question: why now ?

    Just a few weeks ago +W was spouting ( a word he loves btw) on whether one could go to the NOM or not now it's the SSPX with quite an opposite extreme position.

    AGAIN: WHY NOW ?


    I ask you the same thing, curioustrad. WHY ARE YOU BACK NOW? You've been gone for months.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline Ecclesia Militans

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 985
    • Reputation: +12/-35
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #5 on: September 21, 2013, 06:41:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It's too bad that His Excellency continues to justify attending the Masses of priests that are supposedly still orthodox. This position ignores that these priests, by their silence, adopt the official principles of the neo-SSPX.

    Offline Ecclesia Militans

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 985
    • Reputation: +12/-35
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #6 on: September 21, 2013, 06:45:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: rlee
    It is not that simple to translate a proper principle into action given all the conflicting considerations of Faith involved.

    Yes.  It is not always easy.  It takes much prayer, study, and reflection.

    Offline tradical

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 53
    • Reputation: +0/-0
      • h
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #7 on: September 21, 2013, 08:42:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Ecclesia Militans
    It's too bad that His Excellency continues to justify attending the Masses of priests that are supposedly still orthodox. This position ignores that these priests, by their silence, adopt the official principles of the neo-SSPX.


    It would be nice if you could actually demonstrate that the principles of the SSPX are not in fact Catholic principles.

    God Bless my fellow Canadian!


    Offline hollingsworth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2031
    • Reputation: +2273/-164
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #8 on: September 21, 2013, 10:46:05 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • SJ:
    Quote
    To say that, as a general rule, one ought not attend SSPX Masses is an unfortunate slide toward the erroneous Fr. Pfeiffer position.


    You say that it is an "erroneous" postion.  You are merely expressing an opinion.  We no long attend SSPX Masses.  Are we right for not so doing?  I will not say that we are with fixed certainty.  However, if all of us who resist the neo-sspx were to take Fr. Pfeiffer's position, it would certainly strengthen our hand.  If all those who question the new direction of sspx,(and there are many, including priests), were to take Fr. P's position, it would, I think, accelerate the demise of Bp. Fellay & Co.  The indecision of many sspx faithful, including priests,  keeps Fellay in power just that much longer. :thinking:

    Offline Charlotte NC Bill

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 421
    • Reputation: +493/-4
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #9 on: September 21, 2013, 11:12:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  :whistleblower:As you move towards a compromise with Vatican II errors you're moving AWAY fm Catholic priniciples...but that's too obvious for some people...

    Offline Charlotte NC Bill

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 421
    • Reputation: +493/-4
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #10 on: September 21, 2013, 11:18:31 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I also don't care much for the new rebranded SSPX..but I refuse to go nowhere on sunday....there's the Insult Mass where ladies in tight print pants come to see what the bells and smells are all about...There's the Maronite Mass 100 mi away in Greer, SC...that's just Vatican II in arabic w/a little aramaic thrown in during the Consecration...awful homilies..mindless happy talk..no modesty fm "ladies" who show up 90 seconds b4 Mass is over bc they had to get their hair done...everything Pope Francis does/says is interpreted in the best, most improbable, way possible....So when Fr. Hewko comes to town he's like a cool drink in the middle of the desert.


    Offline curioustrad

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 427
    • Reputation: +364/-7
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #11 on: September 21, 2013, 11:46:45 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: curioustrad
    Let us not suggest who may be influencing whom. Let us rather ask a much more interesting question: why now ?

    Just a few weeks ago +W was spouting ( a word he loves btw) on whether one could go to the NOM or not now it's the SSPX with quite an opposite extreme position.

    AGAIN: WHY NOW ?


    And now we see why: the Bishop is on the move:here

    Offline curioustrad

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 427
    • Reputation: +364/-7
    • Gender: Male
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #12 on: September 21, 2013, 11:51:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: parentsfortruth
    Quote from: curioustrad
    Let us not suggest who may be influencing whom. Let us rather ask a much more interesting question: why now ?

    Just a few weeks ago +W was spouting ( a word he loves btw) on whether one could go to the NOM or not now it's the SSPX with quite an opposite extreme position.

    AGAIN: WHY NOW ?


    I ask you the same thing, curioustrad. WHY ARE YOU BACK NOW? You've been gone for months.


    No, I never left ! Glad to see yah !

    Offline Frances

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2660
    • Reputation: +2239/-1
    • Gender: Female
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #13 on: September 21, 2013, 12:30:46 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • [/quote]
     We no longer attend SSPX Masses... if all of us who resist the neo-sspx were to take Fr. Pfeiffer's position, it would certainly strengthen our hand.[/quote]

    Not necessarily!  If you have a priest who can say for you, whom you can rally around and support, then yes, by all means get started even if it means Mass every-other week in a garage, basement, hotel room, etc. If there IS no source of Mass or Sacraments, especially for families with children, and the sspx is still a living branch, it MAY be better to stay put while remaining vigilant.  At the chapel I attend, there IS NO "Resistance" alternative.  Closest Mass is approx. 140 miles away in another state. Getting there involves driving through a major metropolitan area complete with traffic and tolls.   Mass is irregularly scheduled, often on a day or less notice.  This is simply not do-able for most people who have limited finances, job and family obligations to drop everything at a moment's notice, gas up the van, drive four hours to Mass, reverse course, and expect to be up and "raring to go" at work and school on Monday morning.  Those who would have the resources and ability to start a Resistance chapel in my area are satisfied with the current direction of the sspx.  Some have left.  But not because of liberalization or objection to it.  A fair number have tired of the squabbling, and having no real problem with coexisting with the conciliar church, now go to motu masses closer to home.  A few go to a sedevacantist chapel.  But a number have seemingly vanished.  If these were all  "home-alone" actually practicing the Faith, there would be a core-group large enough to attract a priest.  Of these vanished that I've been able to contact, what I've discovered is that two families have returned to their local novus ordo, and three are no longer practicing the Faith as families.  Yet a fifth family goes to a Protestant church.  
    It would seem to me that Bp. W. is still giving a "yellow light," only that light is now flashing in the warning that it will turn red all the sooner.  When it is red throughout the entire sspx, it is inevitable, IMO, that there will be a repeat on a much smaller scale, of what happened in the Church at large in the wake of Vatican II.  Many traditional Catholics, especially those raised in it,  WILL lose their Faith and their souls.  A remnant comprised of a few fighters and newly converted outsiders will be left to carry on the work of Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ.  The cycle will repeat with smaller and smaller numbers up through the Chastisement and consecration of Russia as per Our Lady's request is obeyed.  We can have confidence, however, not despair, for She assures us it WILL be done, late.  Then will come the moist glorious age, the Antichrist, Christ's Return and the General Judgement.  In the meanwhile, ought we not all do whatever we CAN, and stop griping about that which we and others cannot do?
    "O, Mary, conceived without sin,
     Pray for us who have recourse to thee!"
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline parentsfortruth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3820
    • Reputation: +2658/-2
    • Gender: Female
    Eleison Comments: Horrible Falls III
    « Reply #14 on: September 21, 2013, 03:23:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: curioustrad
    Quote from: parentsfortruth
    Quote from: curioustrad
    Let us not suggest who may be influencing whom. Let us rather ask a much more interesting question: why now ?

    Just a few weeks ago +W was spouting ( a word he loves btw) on whether one could go to the NOM or not now it's the SSPX with quite an opposite extreme position.

    AGAIN: WHY NOW ?


    I ask you the same thing, curioustrad. WHY ARE YOU BACK NOW? You've been gone for months.


    No, I never left ! Glad to see yah !


    So you were just lurking since April. Okay. As they say "silence is golden." It was better when you were lurking.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16