Author Topic: Swiss Bishop Bans SSPX  (Read 1015 times)

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Offline ancien regime

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Swiss Bishop Bans SSPX
« on: February 04, 2013, 09:21:32 AM »
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  • In reading Un évêque s'est levé! today, I came across this post referencing an article by Andrea Tornielli. I have pasted in the English version of the article from the Vatican Insider web site. the commentary is by Gentiloup from Un évêque s'est levé!

    Quote
    Quote
    02/ 2/2013 Vatican Insider www.vaticaninsider.lastampa.it
    “Lefebvrians are suspended a divinis: they can’t celebrate mass in the Catholic Church”
     
    The Bishop of Lausanne, Geneva and Freiburg, Charles Morerod, has signed a decree forbidding SSPX priests to use chapels in his diocese

    ANDREA TORNIELLI
    vatican city

    The stance he has taken is significant and indicative: the Bishop of Lausanne, Geneva and Freiburg Charles Morerod – also a Dominican theologian, Rector of Angelicum, Secretary of the International Theological Commission and member of the delegation representing the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in the Church’s talks with the Society of St. Pius X (SSXP) – has published a decree forbidding Lefebvrian priests to celebrate mass in churches and chapels in his diocese. He also stressed that the Fraternity’s priests are suspended “a divinis”.

    The document which was signed last 20 January regards “the admission of other religions, denominations or religious groups, such as the SSXP and groups of “independent theologians”, to Roman Catholic churches and chapels.” In the document, Mgr. Morerod, a prelate whom Benedict XVI knows well, explains that if non Christian religious communities ask to use a Catholic church the answer will be no. In as far as Christian communities and denominations go, on the other hand, the bishops said that based on the indications of the Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism of 1993, “permission for placing churches and chapels at the disposal of communities of other Christian confessions may be granted for reasons of pastoral need. If the aforementioned pastoral need presents itself, Catholic churches and chapels can only be placed at the disposal of Catholic-Christian, Evangelical-Reformed, Lutheran, Orthodox, and Anglican communities.”

    According to the decree, SSPX priests do not fall into these categories. Morerod dedicates three brief paragraphs to the Lefebvrians, recalling, above all, that “the excommunication declared regarding the bishops of the Society on June 30, 1988, was lifted by a decree of the Congregation for Bishops, of January 21, 2009.” The document then quotes a letter dated 10 March 2009 and sent to Benedict XVI to bishops across the world in the aftermath of the Williamson scandal: "The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church" [suspensio a divinis]. Due to the aforementioned reasons, - the decree goes on to say -  it is forbidden to the priests of the Society of Saint Pius X to use the Catholic churches and chapels for all priestly service, in particular for the dispensation of the sacraments.”


    WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?

    1. Because this modernist has participated in the GREC meetings.1 (p. 48 of Pour une nécessaire reconciliation, by Fr. Michel Lelong)  

    2. This person was one of the Vatican experts during the doctrinal discussions with Rome.

    WHAT ARE WE TO CONCLUDE ?

    Conjecture : the Vatican understands that Bishop Fellay is not able to bring along the majority of the priests and faithful of the SSPX with him. Therefore, he has been discredited.  Thus, the new tactic is to create internal friction so as to destroy the SSPX, [evidently, an old masonic tactic] knowing full well that the vanity, egoism and mediocre intellect of Bishop Fellay will not permit him to admit publicly  or privately that he has been completely marginalized by his masonic “confreres” in Rome. If this analysis is correct, we will know more in the coming months.

    1.  "C'est grâce à lui que vint plusieurs fois participer aux réunions de notre groupe le père Charles Moererod, dominicain, professeur à l'Angelicum de Rome qui, quelques temps plus tard, sera une des personnalités choisies par Benoît XVI pour participer aux conversations doctrinales entre le Saint-Siège et la Fraternité Sacerdotale Saint-Pie X."  [It is thanks to him (Fr. Claude Barthe) that Fr. Charles Moererod, a Dominican professor at the Angelicum in Rome, came, who some time later would be one of those chosen by Benedict XVI to participate in the doctrinal conversations between the Holy See and the society of St. Pius X.] Père Michel Lelong "Pour une nécessaire réconciliation",  p. 48 (translator’s emphases)


    Further on in the discussion, one poster inserted a comment from Bishop Moererod's Facebook page:

    Quote
    The norms which I published are only an update decided by the Swiss Episcopal Conference in September 2011 (before I became part of it). I actually waited one more year than the other bishops of the French-Speaking part of Switzerland (Sion, Basel, Abbey of St Maurice) because I hoped the dialogue would work. After Bishop Fellay's preach [sic] 11 Nov. 2012 saying that the "new Mass" is dangerous and that the dialogue is back to 1974-1975, and his speech in New Hamburg 28 Dec. 2012 describing the Jews "enemies of the Church", I decided to stop waiting... The difference between the use of churches by Protestant or Orthodox and the FSSPX is that the priests of the FSSPX are considered Catholics but without legitimate ministry: the effect of this situation is that they divide the Church from within, and say things I would rather not have said in Catholic Churches.


    . . . curiouser and curiouser

    "Oh what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive."

    Offline bowler

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    Swiss Bishop Bans SSPX
    « Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 11:25:10 AM »
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  • Offline Jerome

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    Swiss Bishop Bans SSPX
    « Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 11:54:25 AM »
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  • Quote

    Conjecture : the Vatican understands that Bishop Fellay is not able to bring along the majority of the priests and faithful of the SSPX with him. Therefore, he has been discredited.




    This is all so very confusing......

    How is Bp. Fellay ever going to make any progress if he keeps making anti-modernists statements and trying to keep his feet in two places?


    Offline Machabees

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    Swiss Bishop Bans SSPX
    « Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 12:15:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: ancien regime
    In reading Un évêque s'est levé! today, I came across this post referencing an article by Andrea Tornielli. I have pasted in the English version of the article from the Vatican Insider web site. the commentary is by Gentiloup from Un évêque s'est levé!

    Quote
    Quote
    02/ 2/2013 Vatican Insider www.vaticaninsider.lastampa.it
    “Lefebvrians are suspended a divinis: they can’t celebrate mass in the Catholic Church”
     
    The Bishop of Lausanne, Geneva and Freiburg, Charles Morerod, has signed a decree forbidding SSPX priests to use chapels in his diocese

    ANDREA TORNIELLI
    vatican city

    The stance he has taken is significant and indicative: the Bishop of Lausanne, Geneva and Freiburg Charles Morerod – also a Dominican theologian, Rector of Angelicum, Secretary of the International Theological Commission and member of the delegation representing the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in the Church’s talks with the Society of St. Pius X (SSXP) – has published a decree forbidding Lefebvrian priests to celebrate mass in churches and chapels in his diocese. He also stressed that the Fraternity’s priests are suspended “a divinis”.

    The document which was signed last 20 January regards “the admission of other religions, denominations or religious groups, such as the SSXP and groups of “independent theologians”, to Roman Catholic churches and chapels.” In the document, Mgr. Morerod, a prelate whom Benedict XVI knows well, explains that if non Christian religious communities ask to use a Catholic church the answer will be no. In as far as Christian communities and denominations go, on the other hand, the bishops said that based on the indications of the Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism of 1993, “permission for placing churches and chapels at the disposal of communities of other Christian confessions may be granted for reasons of pastoral need. If the aforementioned pastoral need presents itself, Catholic churches and chapels can only be placed at the disposal of Catholic-Christian, Evangelical-Reformed, Lutheran, Orthodox, and Anglican communities.”

    According to the decree, SSPX priests do not fall into these categories. Morerod dedicates three brief paragraphs to the Lefebvrians, recalling, above all, that “the excommunication declared regarding the bishops of the Society on June 30, 1988, was lifted by a decree of the Congregation for Bishops, of January 21, 2009.” The document then quotes a letter dated 10 March 2009 and sent to Benedict XVI to bishops across the world in the aftermath of the Williamson scandal: "The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church" [suspensio a divinis]. Due to the aforementioned reasons, - the decree goes on to say -  it is forbidden to the priests of the Society of Saint Pius X to use the Catholic churches and chapels for all priestly service, in particular for the dispensation of the sacraments.”


    WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?

    1. Because this modernist has participated in the GREC meetings.1 (p. 48 of Pour une nécessaire reconciliation, by Fr. Michel Lelong)  

    2. This person was one of the Vatican experts during the doctrinal discussions with Rome.

    WHAT ARE WE TO CONCLUDE ?

    Conjecture : the Vatican understands that Bishop Fellay is not able to bring along the majority of the priests and faithful of the SSPX with him. Therefore, he has been discredited.  Thus, the new tactic is to create internal friction so as to destroy the SSPX, [evidently, an old masonic tactic] knowing full well that the vanity, egoism and mediocre intellect of Bishop Fellay will not permit him to admit publicly  or privately that he has been completely marginalized by his masonic “confreres” in Rome. If this analysis is correct, we will know more in the coming months.

    1.  "C'est grâce à lui que vint plusieurs fois participer aux réunions de notre groupe le père Charles Moererod, dominicain, professeur à l'Angelicum de Rome qui, quelques temps plus tard, sera une des personnalités choisies par Benoît XVI pour participer aux conversations doctrinales entre le Saint-Siège et la Fraternité Sacerdotale Saint-Pie X."  [It is thanks to him (Fr. Claude Barthe) that Fr. Charles Moererod, a Dominican professor at the Angelicum in Rome, came, who some time later would be one of those chosen by Benedict XVI to participate in the doctrinal conversations between the Holy See and the society of St. Pius X.] Père Michel Lelong "Pour une nécessaire réconciliation",  p. 48 (translator’s emphases)


    Further on in the discussion, one poster inserted a comment from Bishop Moererod's Facebook page:

    Quote
    The norms which I published are only an update decided by the Swiss Episcopal Conference in September 2011 (before I became part of it). I actually waited one more year than the other bishops of the French-Speaking part of Switzerland (Sion, Basel, Abbey of St Maurice) because I hoped the dialogue would work. After Bishop Fellay's preach [sic] 11 Nov. 2012 saying that the "new Mass" is dangerous and that the dialogue is back to 1974-1975, and his speech in New Hamburg 28 Dec. 2012 describing the Jews "enemies of the Church", I decided to stop waiting... The difference between the use of churches by Protestant or Orthodox and the FSSPX is that the priests of the FSSPX are considered Catholics but without legitimate ministry: the effect of this situation is that they divide the Church from within, and say things I would rather not have said in Catholic Churches.


    . . . curiouser and curiouser

    "Oh what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive."


    So let me get this right.

    -  The SSPX was canonically erected in Fribourg Switzerland in 1970.
    -  Because Menzigen is backflipping to appease the "hard-core traditionalists", that in Rome's strong arm tactic, the SSPX now "cannot" use the churches and chapels in the diocese of Fribourg, and the Fraternity’s priests are suspended “a divinis”.
    -  Because, "the priests of the FSSPX are considered Catholics but without legitimate ministry: the effect of this situation is that they divide the Church from within, and say things I would rather not have said in Catholic Churches." And, "it is forbidden to the priests of the Society of Saint Pius X to use the Catholic churches and chapels for all priestly service, in particular for the dispensation of the sacraments.”
    -  But, according to this SAME Bishop, the "non-Catholics Protestant or Orthodox", do have a "legitimate ministry", and do not divide the Church from within (and without), and do not say things contrary to things he would want said in the Catholic Churches.  So, at the disposal of these non-catholic communities of other Christian confessions, permission will be granted to them for reasons of their pastoral need.  But not the "Catholic" SSPX.

    Hasn't Menzigen figured out yet that Modernist Rome is a different Religion like ABL and Bishop Williamson have been saying all along?

    BIZARREOOO!

    Offline Columba

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    Swiss Bishop Bans SSPX
    « Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 12:20:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: Machabees
    Hasn't Menzigen figured out yet that Modernist Rome is a different Religion like ABL and Bishop Williamson have been saying all along?

    That is the question. Is the religion of Menzigen really different from that of Modernist Rome?


     

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