Author Topic: +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)  (Read 10611 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline obscurus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 648
  • Reputation: +746/-6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
+Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
« on: December 29, 2012, 09:51:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What follows is a slightly edited transcription of the first 15 minutes of Bishop Fellay's talk at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Academy on Dec. 28, 2012. The meaning has not been changed in the slightest. Keep in mind English is not Bishop Fellay's native language. I would suggest those who are willing to finish transcribing the talk post in this thread.

    Dear Fathers, dear faithful,

    We will try to give you a summary of what we had to go through this last year, year and a half. It’s a very interesting time – challenging. We had to go through a major trial in the Society and so there are many things to be learned from that time. I may say so, and that is very interesting from my position I had to experience more or less every year – sometimes every two years – one place in the Society is subject to the attacks of the devil. I use these precise words - it is not just a metaphor, it is a reality. You know the Holy Scriptures says the devil is turning around - is circulating looking to devour someone and indeed the good Lord allows that our work is or will be tested by the devil. It is not just a normal or usual trial – problems we have everywhere, problems - that is normal, that is life, whenever we have people we will have some problems – it is normal but when it is a normal problem we have a proportion between the cause and the effect and the reaction.

    So we have a problem and then we have the people who react to this problem and then there is a kind of proportion. I may say this is what we would call a normal problem. When suddenly there is a total discrepancy between the real thing and the reaction, you see that the passions, that there is an explosion… it’s like a volcano that goes in the air, then you know, you know that this proportion is caused by the devil. That is his way of acting and so, as I say, it’s almost every year we have to experience one place in the Society which has to go under a major trial but just one place – one totally localized – sometimes it is a seminary – sometimes it is just one place and the difference of what happened this time is that this kind of trial was extended to almost the whole Society and that is very, very rare.

    In all the history, we had two or three of those – so very few, but once again you see the same elements that is there is a problem, a real problem, and then the reaction that is totally out of control – no comparison and these are the passions which are blind. It’s violent and it starts to go in all fuses, in all directions… it’s no longer the virtues which are governed well, it is the passions and sins and many kinds of trouble and a lot of confusion. I may say the element of that time was confusion and it is interesting to reflect on this. Why was there confusion? The problems with this confusion that some people have then lost the trust in the authority. I may say that is a major problem because when you lose the trust with the authority then you are left to yourself. Then you are alone to judge and you can no longer rely on anybody. That is the great, great problem of distrust and that is what happened. Not everybody of course but a certain part of the Society went into that kind of situation and once again if you go back to the real reality there is no ground. There is no ground so many many things that were spread around in the internet during that time were just simply false. False or even worse the contrary to what really happened.

    If I look and try to see where, or did this confusion come from, we have several elements which did not help. The first I may say probably the most deeper and the cause of all the others is that we are experiencing since years, a contradiction in Rome. I will try to develop that point because I think it is a major one. Since 2009, I am facing directly contradiction that is instances authorities in Rome contradict themselves about us. The thing was so strong, that in June, I requested a meeting with the Secretary of State, with Cardinal Bertone because of that. Well he did not give it but he asked me to see Cardinal Levada and I told him I want to see you because you people, you are contradicting yourselves about us. Some of you say that we are excommunicated, that we are out of the Church others say no there is no problem we are totally in order. It is a whole mixture there and we no longer know how to react with you or what to do with you because of this.

    I will just give you two examples. One it was in 2009, it was just before Easter. In the beginning of March, even beginning in February already, the Secretariat of State issued a statement saying the Society does not exist and if the Society wants to be recognized by the Church it is necessary to accept totally everything the Council and the teachings of all the Popes since John XXIII until the present. So no recognition for the Society until they accept everything - all the novelties.

    Two weeks before Easter we have a ceremony of ordination, it is called Sitientes and this year Rome did not want us to have them. They first started with Germany, in fact it was the bishops of Germany who made the pressure. So one week before the ordinations, Cardinal Castrillon is asking me not to have them.

    First in Germany, he said it in a very kind way. “You would do a favor to the Pope, if you do not do them because there is pressure from the German bishops and so on.” It was about Germany and not about the other places, so I talked with all the four bishops and we agreed to make a sign, a gesture, but not to compromise, and so we said okay we are not going to have this ordination in Germany but the subdeacons who should be ordained that day they will be ordained in Econe. And so two days before the ordination in Econe, Cardinal Castrillon calls me again and said, “You cannot have these ordinations, impossible, you are against the Pope” and so on… He said here is what you must do, you ask the Pope for permission and I guarantee almost immediately you will receive the permission and up to the time of Easter in these two weeks, the Society will be recognized. I told him, “how so?” There is this declaration from Rome which says we cannot be recognized until we recognize and accept the Council and you know very well what we think about the Council. It is not going to happen. He answered, “Well this text is only a political text it is only an administrative (text) and by the way that is not what the Pope thinks.”

    So what can I do now? I have an official statement which says nothing for the Society, I have a Cardinal who says that is not what the Pope thinks. You see it is an example of this contradiction. Another one, 2010, we are in the discussions with Rome and they treat us, I may say, as Catholics. Bishop de Galaretta and the priests say the Mass in St. Peter’s in the morning, they celebrate the Mass with no problem. In September, a priest is joining us from the Novus Ordo and he was a religious and his superior sent a letter to this priest with a letter from the Congregation of the Religious which said the following: “This father is excommunicated, he is excommunicated because he lost the faith by joining the schism of Archbishop Lefebvre.”

    So I went down to Rome and said to Monsignor Pozzo, “What’s that?” and he told me, “Oh we would have already spoken, with this we have talked to the Congregation of Religious and they don’t have the right to say so. It’s wrong - they are not competent so they have to revise the judgment, and he made this sign in front of me, that’s what we have to do with the letter. So you have to [throw it in the basket]. So you have one instance (?) in Rome who tells me to treat an official document from Rome this way. That is what I call a contradiction. I knew also, I know, I happen to know simply that on the certain points where the Pope has done something favorable to us you have other people in Rome who are doing sabatoge against the Pope. Again, I give you an example, just that you may know that I don’t speak in the air but I have really these experiences.

    There is an abbey in Germany, it is the only Trappist Abbey and the Father Abbot asked the Pope not only to go back to the Old Mass, because now it is allowed, you can do that but to go back to the old rule before the Council. And the Pope granted it and even said that he hoped that it’s an example that would be followed by many. Now six months later, this Abbot has not received any answer from Rome and he is calling a friend in Rome and he says what is happening with me. This friend who is very, very close to the Pope told him, “Well, write again to the Pope and this time send this letter to me and I will bring it to the Holy Father,” which happened. I know the story from that very person so it is not just hearsay, directly this person who was very close to the Pope told me that story, so he went to see the Pope with this letter and he asked the Pope, “What is going on with this abbey in Germany?… and the Pope said, “But it is six months since I have granted the permission!” So what, they made an inquiry and in fact it was the person in the Secretariat of State who should have transmitted the decision of the Pope but just put it in the drawer.  

    Offline Columba

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 552
    • Reputation: +728/-0
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 10:37:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Fellay
    attacks of the devil. I use these precise words - it is not just a metaphor, it is a reality. You know the Holy Scriptures says the devil is turning around - is circulating looking to devour someone and indeed the good Lord allows that our work is or will be tested by the devil. [...] it’s like a volcano that goes in the air, then you know, you know that this proportion is caused by the devil.

    Criticism from the three bishops and priests resisting a purely practical solution is called an attack from the devil. Oh this SG is truly a martyr.


    Quote from: Fellay
    two days before the ordination in Econe, Cardinal Castrillon calls me again and said, “You cannot have these ordinations, impossible, you are against the Pope” and so on… He said here is what you must do, you ask the Pope for permission and I guarantee almost immediately you will receive the permission and up to the time of Easter in these two weeks, the Society will be recognized. I told him, “how so?” There is this declaration from Rome which says we cannot be recognized until we recognize and accept the Council and you know very well what we think about the Council. It is not going to happen. He answered, “Well this text is only a political text it is only an administrative (text) and by the way that is not what the Pope thinks.”

    So what can I do now? I have an official statemfor the purpose ofent which says nothing for the Society, I have a Cardinal who says that is not what the Pope thinks.

    Now we learn that the portentous false impression that the pope would agree to disagree on Vatican II came from a fraudulent appeal by Cdl. Castrillon aimed at shutting down spring ordinations.


    Offline Francisco

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1067
    • Reputation: +811/-0
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 11:29:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is the transcript of the first 15 minutes. Later on, did he say he would resign - something so many priests and faithful want him to do?

    Offline Sede Catholic

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1306
    • Reputation: +1028/-0
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 11:41:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Fellay is also very devious and dishonest. Read the last paragraph very carefully. It is so dishonest.

    Try to see what Fellay is doing here: he is doing what conservative Catholics do:
    He is trying to pretend that Benedict XVI is in favour of the true Mass, but is being obstructed by the modernists.

    Fellay comes out with an anecdote from a person whose name he does not give (thus, it is worthless, and may just be lies).
    In this untrustworthy anecdote, Fellay tries to persuade us that Benedict XVI is a traditionalist who supports the Traditional Latin Mass, but those nasty cardinals surrounding him just will not do what the holy old "pope" wants.

    In Fellay-world, Benedict XVI is really our friend. He may appear to be a Heretic who is engineering the ruin of the Catholic Church, but that is just an act. Underneath, Benedict is a trad. Probably a Sede.

    Nothing that is wrong in the conciliar church is his fault. Blame the bishops, the cardinals, the modernists. Blame anyone except Benedict. What can he do? He is only in charge.

    This worthless and dishonest anecdote of Fellay’s, is PRECISELY the type of anecdote put out by conservatives in the conciliar church.
    These anecdotes are often just a load of lies, the evil purpose of which is to trick traditional Catholics into failing to see that Benedict XVI is our principle foe.

    Fellay is trying to convince Catholics that Benedict is good. Whereas the reality is that Benedict XVI is anti-Catholic, and therefore is evil.

    For anyone who actually is tempted to believe a word that Fellay, or his infernal master, Benedict XVI, have to say about anything, just consider this:

    If it is true that Benedict XVI is secretly a Roman Catholic, then why does he not celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass himself? Just once.

    Benedict will not, so we will have to take him at face value: he is a non-Catholic who wants to destroy our religion.

    And Fellay, as an obedient son of the “pope”, will do his bit to help.

    Offline Sede Catholic

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1306
    • Reputation: +1028/-0
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #4 on: December 29, 2012, 11:53:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Also, Summorum Pontificum allegedly granted permission to celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass.
    So why would this "Abbot" need to ask additional permission from Benedict XVI ?


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12647
    • Reputation: +6904/-54
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 02:52:37 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Merry Christmas, Matthew!

    {For unto us a child is born...  Handel's Messaiah Oratorio plays automatically
    on the website of inthissignyoushallconquer.com}

    This is a transcript of the final 32 minutes of this conference, that is, there
    is one hour and seven minutes of material that precedes this final segment.




    Bishop Bernard Fellay SSPX
    Toronto Conference
    OLMC Dec. 28th 2012
    Feast of the Holy Innocents




    1:07:00
    It means their seminary was a tragedy, and which Mass did they have at their seminary? The new mass.  [smile audible] So you see, [smacks lips] uuhh, what is going to happen in the future now?  I don’t know.  I say, “Be ready.”  Can be.. can be nyep again.  We know that. Uhh, excommunication.  Will it really happen or not?  I think so long as the Pope is alive, I hardly believe it, but.. I really don’t know.  If they manage to convince him that we are really against the Council, it could happen.  It think it could happen.  

    And, I may say well, in any case, that’s the way they treat us, in any case, now, already  now:  they treat us – as excommunicated.  That’s the situation.  So it doesn’t change anything for us, so I say:  “Don’t fear.”  We know it, we know what it [big chuckle] means.  And uh [smacks lips] I’d say, that’s not what is moving us.  What is moving us is the salvation of the souls.  We know that going the way that the Church goes now, thousands and millions of souls get lost.  That’s what we don’t want!  That’s why we want the Church to come back to its tradition.  And we know that one day it will happen – how, when, this is really not in our hands.  We have to do our job, our duty.  The rest is in the hands of God.  

    1:09:00
    Will it last long?  Will it be short?  I have seven ideas.  But they are pure opinion and perspective.  What I see, is that those that are really STICKING to the Council are those who made it, and those who implement[ed] it.  That means:  the OLDER generation – those who are in power now.  But I see is that they are not followed.  The younger generation, they don’t follow that way.  A very interesting.  I can [can’t?] understand that, because they don’t have this uhh [smacks lips] uhh, how do you say? uhh, effective relation.  The Council, for the younger generation, is not their baby.  The Council for them, it’s something that happened in the last MILLENIUM.  So WAY IN THE PAST – what they see, what they experience is a disaster situation of the Church, a ruin.  And they’re not happy with that!  They’re frustrated, and so they tried to look for something, and when they see and they hear about Tradition, they are very interested – and I see these, already now.  I can really tell you, we have priests, in the modern, who really are serious, really serious, and who want, and who question the Council.  I got men, several messages of that type.  

    Even more amazing, I saw somewhere a reflection, it was a [recording skips] Eng-ish uhh, pastor who said, “That’s amazing.  But about a half of the new seminarians they have a relation with the old Mass.  And French priest, [skips] I said to him, “Well, you know, that’s about the same in France.”  Well, in France, if you look at the situation now, this year, for example, ten percent of the newly ordained French [priests] are of the Society.  The Society is already representing today, if you look at the new ordination, 10% of all the [ordinations] of France.  If you add to this, those who are ordained by, if you say, Ecclesia Dei and so on, you come to more than ¼, twenty-five percent.  That means that the bishops are losing control on, at already now, a quarter of the Church in France [big smile audible].  And their figgers (figures) are dramatic.  The average age in France for the [priests] is above 70.  More than half of the [priests] in France are above 75.  You can calculate as you want.  In 5 years, that will mean they are above 80.  Because you have no younger coming.  That means we are in front of a COL-LAPSE! – of the Church in France.  It’s so serious, that the [bishops] have already prepared a shrinking of the dioceses for 2,015 by 1/3 ….. 1/3 of France wwwhhhhtt – wiped out of the map!  That’s the situation.

    1:13:00
    They are sterile!  And I may say you find the same figgers (figures) with a little bit of difference of time everywhere.  Dioceses of Rome: how many ordinations for the diocese of Rome, [priests] from the place – how many, in one year?  ONE.  One only priest in the diocese of Rome!  

    Take Island [Ireland].  They have less than ten seminarians for the whole Island new seminarians.  We have more than …

    This is the situation of the Church.  Istying. (It’s dying.)  And so, you have, that’s perfectly understandable:  the younger generation, they’re not happy with that!  Of course they are not.  What is interesting, we start to have now bishops, bishops who think that we are right.  They don’t appo – open the mouth.  Because [big giggle] it’s too danger for them [dangerous for them], they know.  But even if they open the mouth, wwwhhhhtt! They be never, they be [de]capitated.  Do you know it goes so far, one of these [bishops] directly ask[ed] me, he say [said], I want to say the Tridentine Mass every day, but if I do so, I will not be able to stain [stay in] my diocese.  So what should I do?  Stain my diocese, trying to do some good there, or, leave my diocese and say the Tridentine Mass?   Well, I answered him, “Well, do both!  That means, say the Mass every day, and stay in your diocese and try to do the good there.  Big fight, well, anyway, uuhh.  

    We have now, a number of priests, of bishops, it’s new, but it’s real, it’s true!  Once again, they may not be courageous enough to speak out  but it’s true.  Because the situation is still very, very difficult.   This is increasing.  It’s very interesting.  They are not the majority, no?  But if you compare 5 years ago, it’s an ENORMOUS PROGRESS!  And I find them a little bit every-where [pronounced as two words].  When Father Schtilling (sp?) uhh, gave a conference in Rome last autumn, four bishops asked him to preach their retreat for their priests, in their [dioceses].  Seven of these bishops learned to say the Tridentine Mass.  Some from Central America, some from Africa, some from Asia [smile audible].  It’s coming, it’s little by little.  It is coming.  It’s a big fight, and we are in this fight and we must not abandon this fight.  Of course, we must not burn ourselves.   One must be very, very prudent.  No doubt about that.  But we have to foster this movement.  You see?  This Church is the Catholic Church, it’s OUR Church!  It’s sick, full of sickness, yes?   So, be prudent.   We are not going to abandon the Church – no!  If someone is sick in your family, you don’t say, “Get lost!”  It’s your father!  He’s sick!  You take care of him!  You don’t let him, say I don’t want anything to do with you – no!  

    And the same with the Church!  It’s OUR Church!  It’s sick, we pray for it, we do what we can.  We try not to be burned, once again [smile is audible].  So we take our.. our.. our.. precautions.  We must – there’s no other way?   Now, when will the time come?  This is very difficult to answer.  I frankly, personally, I don’t think that these [this is] possible until the head is in our favor.  Because the fight is too, too heavy.  And the head, that means the Pope, must be absolutely convinced of the necessity of Tradition.  The fight might continue in the Church, but as long as we don’t have that, I don’t see really any concrete, serious possibility to go ahead, because it’s too dangerous, too dangerous.  We have many enemies, many enemies.  But look and that’s very interesting.  Who, during that time, was the most opposed that the Church would recognize the Society?  The ENEMIES of the Church.  The Jews, the Masons, the [Modernists]!  The most opposed that the Society would be recognized as a Catholic:  the ENEMIES of the Church!  Interesting, isn’t it?  More than that, what was the point?  

    1:19:00
    What did they say to Rome?  They said, “You must oblige these people to accept Vatican II.  That’s also VERY interesting, isn’t it?  People whom [sic] from OUTSIDE the Church, who were clearly during centuries, were enemies of the Church, say to Rome, if you want  to accept these people, you MUST oblige them to accept the Council.  Isn’t that interesting?  Oh, it is!  I think it’s FANTASTIC!  Because it shows that Vatican II is THEIR THING!  Not the Church’s – THEY see, the ENEMIES of the Church see THEIR benefit in the Council.  Very interesting!  And so, I may say that’s the kind of argument we’re going to use with Rome.  Trying to make them reflect.. trying to make them reflect.  

    I say, [smacks lips] the situation is not desperate, no.  It’s not worse than before.  Still the same.  There’s some hope.  I don’t think for right for now, but for us, we just continue.
    This line, which has been so clearly given by Archbishop Lefebvre, which is so clear, this faithfulness to the past.   Is so, so balanced, and right;  we see all these fruits.  It’s undeniable, let’s continue, until better times.  Now how long will it last?  I don’t know!!  Some pretend that I said, that I don’t know if in four year, but I don’t know in how many years.  (There will be an agreement)  – I have absolutely no idear!  The only thing I say is, first,,,,,,  agreement is not the right word.  But “recognition, normalization.”  We have a right:  we are Catholics and we have a right to that label.  But that does not mean that we are going to change our self to get it! [smile audible]   No,,,,,, we know that these [this] tradition is the future of the Church.  And so we must work that it comes back.  Do what we can.  We see that these [this] influence of the tradition ees [is] gaining.  Also isn’t this interesting? We are, we are making our point, little by little;  an example, look at this year, they tried to celebrate the fifty [years] of the Council.  Amazing to see how they feel obliged to justify themselves against our attacks.  They didn’t do that before.   Now they feel obliged to justify.  I give you another example which is little thing but is, can tell something.[smacks lips]  You know that just before he became a pope, Benedict XVI gave a Communion to a Protestant, to a Jose Schutz, it was at the funeral for John Paul II.  Cardinal Ratzinger went and gave Communion to Jose Schutz Taize (?).  Now, he said, a little bit later on, he said [smile audible] to his uuhh, to his people a little close to him, what were his thoughts [meaning to say he divulged the intentions he had held as he had given this Communion], and you know what, was he thinking about when he was giving this Communion to this Jose Schutz?  He said to them, to his close people [smile audible] I thought, “What’s the Society going to say?”   So you see, we are in his mind, his conscience, his BAD conscience.  HUHehunh. (mischievous chuckle)  It’s very interesting.  Very interesting to see that!  Because it shows, that say we, so to say we are there, we are GAINING in influence there.  That does not mean that everything is fine.  You probably heard that the very last days, now they have decided to make Paul VI a blessed.  To work for the beatification of Paul VI.  That’s UNBELIEVABLE!  Well again we PROTEST against that.  

    It’s wwwhhhh (air) well, the words are failing, it’s so incredible.  I give you just two facts, two facts:  One, the tomb of the mother of Paul VI, this is verified, so it’s not hearsay.   I did send someone to verify what I tell you now, and we took photos.  The tomb of the mother of Paul VI is a MAS-on-ic [Masonic] tomb.  With all the MAS-on-ic symbols.  It’s a fact.  How can a Pope allow his mother to have a MAS-on-ic tomb?  Should help people to reflect.  

    Another one, even more serious.  We say, “even more serious.” And under Pius XII, you know you had Communist Russia, was persecuting the Catholics, and suddenly, someone said to the Pope, “You have a traitor in your house, in the Vatican, who is dealing with Moscow against you.”  Pius XII did not want to believe it.  But the person, who was the Lutheran bishop of Helsinki, gave the proof, provided the proof to Pius XII.  His proof were brought to the Pope by I may say, a secret agent, he was a French military, and this is all documented, it is not hearsay.   And so the Pope got the proof, that the traitor was the future Paul VI   When he knew that, he kicked him out of the Vatican and he made him the bishop of Milan.  So there, we’ve got Paul VI after John XXIII.   And now they want to make him a “blessed.”   Really?  You think, they, they have lost, I don’t know, all of  their mind.  It’s incredible, incredible.  My impression, that they try, they try to canonize,  they have tried to beatify all these popes that have brought in all these novelties – why?   Because they know they are [at] the end of their thing.  And they want to make like a mon-YOU-men [a monument] that will stay in the ages by CANONIZING all these things.   Now that’s my impression;  maybe I’m wrong, but that’s my impression once again.  Why insisting in making all of that, John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II, all Blessed:  WHY THAT?  [Good question!]  Why that?  If you start like that you can make saint everybody.  [Good point.]  

    1:27:38
    It’s really, they change the meaning of holiness.  John Paul II explained that, he said, “I want to make so many saints that, to show that the vocation to holiness is universal, that means that everybody is called to be a saint.”  Can be understood correctly.  But if you start to make everybody a saint, you canonize everybody, there’s something wrong somewhere.  

    Now, just to show you that things are not well, that is to say, there is some hope somewhere;  I am not optimistic of this situation.   If you want another example when we finish with this, an image of what kind of time do we have, or are we in.  At a certain moment, towards the end of winter, you see on the trees new buds, they just come out.  It’s a little thing there.  When you see that, you know, spring will come.  But you start to say, spring is there, people will tell you, hey, come on.  It’s winter!  It’s freezing!  It’s snowing!  It’s icy!  It’s windy!  Don’t say it’s spring!  It’s not true!  It’s winter!  And we say, “Both are right.  It’s still winter.”  And then I say, if you look at the situation in the Church, it’s still winter.  But we start to see the little signs that start to say that spring is coming.  

    And now we have a very, very, delicate moment.  These buds, they have a certain time they have to come out.  If they come out too quickly, they might be frozen, and the new flowers will be demolished.   That’s why we have to be very, very prudent, before having these buds come out. [chuckle audible]  But I may say, that’s precisely where we are now.  That’s very delicate time between winter and spring.  There is hope for the Church, no doubt, but don’t be too optimistic, neither.  And we must keep this very prudent balance, very prudent balance;  trying to make things go forward, the same time not pushing ourselves in it, too far away;  or burning ourselves or killing ourselves.   So people who fear, I understand them, but we’re not going there.  No, no, we’re not.  We don’t want to demolish what we have done for 30-40 years.  That would be crazy, so we want to be, and we are certainly prudent.  No need to throw ourselves into impossible situation.  

    But uhh, [smacks lips] we’re still in the fight, that’s all.  And continue to pray, to pray the Blessed Virgin Mary;  pray the Rosary!  It remains our, one of our main weapons.    We must continue to defend the Faith.  Not change.  We have nothing to change.   The faith is above time, what was true is true, and will be true.  We don’t need to change anything there,,,,,, And, [smacks lips] well, one day the Lord will put again order in His Church.  We must not forget that. It’s His Church, and he remains the boss.  Our Lord is the boss. He’s in control.  This sometimes we forget.  There is nothing happening in, on the earth that would be out of control    Our Lord dared to say there is not one air [hair] that is falling from our head, without His permission.  Not one air.  So there is nothing happening on the earth, nothing, nothing evil, which could happen without the permission of God.  God is the master.  You may wonder, well why does He allow all these things?  Well, He knows.  [chuckles] He knows better than we why He does that.  But what we must remember, is that He didn’t put us in that situation, and God, whenever, the last temptation or trial, to happen, He provides the grace we need to face that situation, to win, to go through it and not to fail.  Remember that.  We are in difficult situation, yes, it’s true.  Every day is hard.  The world goes down;  it’s unbelievable what is happening there.  Nevertheless, God allows that first, and while allowing that, He keeps us wanting what we need to behave as Catholics today, to make our salvation today.  Don’t fear!  On the contrary, count on Him!  But put the price (?), pray.   Do your duty of state.  Be faithful to do your things.  But Our Lord promised that He will, He will give us the faith we need to be faithful in the great things.  He said it.  

    And of course, go to the Blessed Virgin Mary.  It is clear that she has been given to us,,,,,, especially for this time.  She’s our heavenly mother.  There is a little phrase which is impressive in Fatima:  “God has put in her hands the peace of nations.”   She’s really the queen:  the queen of heaven and earth, even the peace of nations is in the hands of the Blessed Virgin Mary.  Not to speak about the peace, uuh, how do you say, the spiritual peace, the peace with God, the fight against the sin.  And so really stay close to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

    And this time I promise I finish, we will consecrate, we want to consecrate our Society to St. Joseph.  Why?  Because St. Joseph, he’s the patron of the Church.  He’s the protector of the Church.  And remember in Fatima, that’s also something very interesting [smile audible].  On the 13th of October, the Blessed Virgin Mary announced the miracle of the sun, and she said she would come and bless the earth with her Son, AND with St. Joseph,  with the Child Jesus, blessing the earth, on, when you had the miracle of the sun.  So you have the Blessed Virgin Mary, you have the Immaculate Heart of Mary?  Yes, that’s why I say the first part, the essential of the Message of Fatima, that you also have St. Joseph.  That’s he’s the patron, the protector of the Church, and that [in] this time that is so hard, we want to consecrate the Society, and all of you, all of us, to St. Joseph.  So to this we happen on the 19th of March, which is the Feast of St. Joseph, so I invite all of you to prepare, to prepare that date, to prepare that consecration.  We will, of course provide the ne-CES-sa-ry [necessary] document, for that, uuhh, for that great, great E-vent [event],

    And so, well, in conclusion, the fight continues.  I may say nothing new, just fight continues, as ever before.  And so let’s finish by entrusting ourselves to the Blessed Virgin Mary, and I will give you the blessing [smile audible]   Sal-ve Re-gi-na (Simple tone Gregorian Chant)…
    Sit donet Domini benedictum…
    Adjutorium nostrum in nomini Domini
    Benedixio Dei omnipotentis, Patris, et Filii, et Spiritu Sancti, descendat super vos et maneat semper.  Amen.
     
    1:39:17












    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3036
    • Reputation: +3123/-1
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 07:45:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: obscurus
    What follows is a slightly edited transcription of the first 15 minutes of Bishop Fellay's talk at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Academy on Dec. 28, 2012. The meaning has not been changed in the slightest. Keep in mind English is not Bishop Fellay's native language. I would suggest those who are willing to finish transcribing the talk post in this thread.

    Dear Fathers, dear faithful,

    We will try to give you a summary of what we had to go through this last year, year and a half. It’s a very interesting time – challenging. We had to go through a major trial in the Society and so there are many things to be learned from that time. I may say so, and that is very interesting from my position I had to experience more or less every year – sometimes every two years – one place in the Society is subject to the attacks of the devil. I use these precise words - it is not just a metaphor, it is a reality. You know the Holy Scriptures says the devil is turning around - is circulating looking to devour someone and indeed the good Lord allows that our work is or will be tested by the devil. It is not just a normal or usual trial – problems we have everywhere, problems - that is normal, that is life, whenever we have people we will have some problems – it is normal but when it is a normal problem we have a proportion between the cause and the effect and the reaction.

    So we have a problem and then we have the people who react to this problem and then there is a kind of proportion. I may say this is what we would call a normal problem. When suddenly there is a total discrepancy between the real thing and the reaction, you see that the passions, that there is an explosion… it’s like a volcano that goes in the air, then you know, you know that this proportion is caused by the devil. That is his way of acting and so, as I say, it’s almost every year we have to experience one place in the Society which has to go under a major trial but just one place – one totally localized – sometimes it is a seminary – sometimes it is just one place and the difference of what happened this time is that this kind of trial was extended to almost the whole Society and that is very, very rare.

    In all the history, we had two or three of those – so very few, but once again you see the same elements that is there is a problem, a real problem, and then the reaction that is totally out of control – no comparison and these are the passions which are blind. It’s violent and it starts to go in all fuses, in all directions… it’s no longer the virtues which are governed well, it is the passions and sins and many kinds of trouble and a lot of confusion. I may say the element of that time was confusion and it is interesting to reflect on this. Why was there confusion? The problems with this confusion that some people have then lost the trust in the authority. I may say that is a major problem because when you lose the trust with the authority then you are left to yourself. Then you are alone to judge and you can no longer rely on anybody. That is the great, great problem of distrust and that is what happened. Not everybody of course but a certain part of the Society went into that kind of situation and once again if you go back to the real reality there is no ground. There is no ground so many many things that were spread around in the internet during that time were just simply false. False or even worse the contrary to what really happened.

    If I look and try to see where, or did this confusion come from, we have several elements which did not help. The first I may say probably the most deeper and the cause of all the others is that we are experiencing since years, a contradiction in Rome. I will try to develop that point because I think it is a major one. Since 2009, I am facing directly contradiction that is instances authorities in Rome contradict themselves about us. The thing was so strong, that in June, I requested a meeting with the Secretary of State, with Cardinal Bertone because of that. Well he did not give it but he asked me to see Cardinal Levada and I told him I want to see you because you people, you are contradicting yourselves about us. Some of you say that we are excommunicated, that we are out of the Church others say no there is no problem we are totally in order. It is a whole mixture there and we no longer know how to react with you or what to do with you because of this.

    I will just give you two examples. One it was in 2009, it was just before Easter. In the beginning of March, even beginning in February already, the Secretariat of State issued a statement saying the Society does not exist and if the Society wants to be recognized by the Church it is necessary to accept totally everything the Council and the teachings of all the Popes since John XXIII until the present. So no recognition for the Society until they accept everything - all the novelties.

    Two weeks before Easter we have a ceremony of ordination, it is called Sitientes and this year Rome did not want us to have them. They first started with Germany, in fact it was the bishops of Germany who made the pressure. So one week before the ordinations, Cardinal Castrillon is asking me not to have them.

    First in Germany, he said it in a very kind way. “You would do a favor to the Pope, if you do not do them because there is pressure from the German bishops and so on.” It was about Germany and not about the other places, so I talked with all the four bishops and we agreed to make a sign, a gesture, but not to compromise, and so we said okay we are not going to have this ordination in Germany but the subdeacons who should be ordained that day they will be ordained in Econe. And so two days before the ordination in Econe, Cardinal Castrillon calls me again and said, “You cannot have these ordinations, impossible, you are against the Pope” and so on… He said here is what you must do, you ask the Pope for permission and I guarantee almost immediately you will receive the permission and up to the time of Easter in these two weeks, the Society will be recognized. I told him, “how so?” There is this declaration from Rome which says we cannot be recognized until we recognize and accept the Council and you know very well what we think about the Council. It is not going to happen. He answered, “Well this text is only a political text it is only an administrative (text) and by the way that is not what the Pope thinks.”

    So what can I do now? I have an official statement which says nothing for the Society, I have a Cardinal who says that is not what the Pope thinks. You see it is an example of this contradiction. Another one, 2010, we are in the discussions with Rome and they treat us, I may say, as Catholics. Bishop de Galaretta and the priests say the Mass in St. Peter’s in the morning, they celebrate the Mass with no problem. In September, a priest is joining us from the Novus Ordo and he was a religious and his superior sent a letter to this priest with a letter from the Congregation of the Religious which said the following: “This father is excommunicated, he is excommunicated because he lost the faith by joining the schism of Archbishop Lefebvre.”

    So I went down to Rome and said to Monsignor Pozzo, “What’s that?” and he told me, “Oh we would have already spoken, with this we have talked to the Congregation of Religious and they don’t have the right to say so. It’s wrong - they are not competent so they have to revise the judgment, and he made this sign in front of me, that’s what we have to do with the letter. So you have to [throw it in the basket]. So you have one instance (?) in Rome who tells me to treat an official document from Rome this way. That is what I call a contradiction. I knew also, I know, I happen to know simply that on the certain points where the Pope has done something favorable to us you have other people in Rome who are doing sabatoge against the Pope. Again, I give you an example, just that you may know that I don’t speak in the air but I have really these experiences.

    There is an abbey in Germany, it is the only Trappist Abbey and the Father Abbot asked the Pope not only to go back to the Old Mass, because now it is allowed, you can do that but to go back to the old rule before the Council. And the Pope granted it and even said that he hoped that it’s an example that would be followed by many. Now six months later, this Abbot has not received any answer from Rome and he is calling a friend in Rome and he says what is happening with me. This friend who is very, very close to the Pope told him, “Well, write again to the Pope and this time send this letter to me and I will bring it to the Holy Father,” which happened. I know the story from that very person so it is not just hearsay, directly this person who was very close to the Pope told me that story, so he went to see the Pope with this letter and he asked the Pope, “What is going on with this abbey in Germany?… and the Pope said, “But it is six months since I have granted the permission!” So what, they made an inquiry and in fact it was the person in the Secretariat of State who should have transmitted the decision of the Pope but just put it in the drawer.  


    Commentary:

    1) I will withold judgment until the whole of the interview has been transcribed.
    2) But presuming this is an accurate transcription, I am amazed.
    3) Thus far, Bishop Fellay seems to be saying that the loss of trust in the SSPX authorities was the result of him having been deceived by Rome.
    4) No, Your Excellency, that is not why we have lost faith and trust in you.
    5) We have lost faith and trust in you because on Feb 2, 2012 you announced you were willing to abandon the principles of Archbishop Lefebvre, by explaining your willingness to accept a merely practical accord with Rome, so long as there were no strings attached.
    6) We lost faith and trust in Menzingen because you began secret dealings with Rome, and by your behavior, told us all it was none of our business.
    7) We lost faith and trust in the SSPX authorities because we have perceived a slow but relentless change in orientation, especially evident in content promulgated through SSPX media outlets such as Angelus, DICI, and SSPX.org, all of which seems to be a conditioning process to get the laity to accept a practical deal with Rome.
    8) We have lost trust in SSPX authorities because you contradict your former positions (so especially evident when comparing the 2006 General Chapter declaration with that of 2012, or, when comparing your present position versus your own words in Letter #63).
    9) We lost faith in you because you sequestered Bishop Williamson for expressing a merely secular historical opinion.
    10) We lost faith and trust in you because you illegally excluded Bishop Williamson from the 2012 General Chapter.
    11) We lost faith and trust in you because of the mind-numbing response you made to the Letter of the Three Bishops.
    12) And we lost faith and trust in you when you expelled Bishop Williamson, knowing he would continue to oppose your "Operation Suicide."

       In short, our loss of trust in your governance has nothing to do with what Rome told you, but with what we see or hear coming from Menzingen.

       Perhaps you said and did these things because you were deceived by Rome.

       But we were not deceived.

       And we will not now be deceived.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline Francisco

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1067
    • Reputation: +811/-0
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 09:04:32 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Those who read/listen through all of Bishop Fellay's letters and conferences should be granted plenary indulgences. The man is an almighty bore.


    Offline stgobnait

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1267
    • Reputation: +894/-14
    • Gender: Female
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 09:11:15 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • its called flim flam.............  some people love it!
     :laugh1:

    Offline For Greater Glory

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 175
    • Reputation: +241/-0
    • Gender: Female
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 12:45:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • I've only read the first three paragraphs. This is a penance to read it. Bishop Fellay talks about the devil attacking the SSPX. Who started this whole thing?????  Who wants to join the modernists????   :mad:

    Offline InDominoSperavi

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 196
    • Reputation: +0/-0
      • View Profile
      • h
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 02:09:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you very much for the transcript Obscurus and Neil. I couldn't make work neither google traduction audio neither express scribe... if I have well understood, express scribe doesn't type as I believed. So please, could someone help with the transcript ?


    Offline nipr

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 151
    • Reputation: +237/-0
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #11 on: December 30, 2012, 04:35:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: InDominoSperavi
    Thank you very much for the transcript Obscurus and Neil. I couldn't make work neither google traduction audio neither express scribe... if I have well understood, express scribe doesn't type as I believed. So please, could someone help with the transcript ?


    Hi InDominoSperavi,

    I'm having health problems at the moment and cannot transcribe right now.  Please see my PM to you with instructions on using Express Scribe.

    nipr

    Offline Matthew

    • Forum Owner
    • Administrator
    • *****
    • Posts: 20485
    • Reputation: +18089/-52
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #12 on: December 30, 2012, 11:22:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Bishop Fellay: A Summary of Recent Events, SSPX-Rome 12-28-12 Ontario, Canada

    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase! It costs you nothing extra.

    - Matthew

    Offline PAT317

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 314
    • Reputation: +383/-0
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #13 on: December 30, 2012, 11:36:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Sede Catholic
    ...Read the last paragraph ...


    Okay, so I read that paragraph, and got a bad case of déjà vu.  Are we sure this is a new talk?  Sounds like the same recycled talk he's been giving for the last 12 years.  One reason he is, as someone said, "an almighty bore" is that he's been giving the same 3 hour conference for the last 12 years.  It does get a bit boring after the 3rd or 4th time...  

    Wake me up when he gets to any new parts.

    Offline brainglitch

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 410
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
      • View Profile
    +Fellay conference OLMC 12-28-12 (Transcription)
    « Reply #14 on: December 30, 2012, 11:38:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you, Neil Obstat.

    My faith in Bishop Fellay is fully restored.

    God Bless!

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 
    Powered by SMFPacks WYSIWYG Editor