Author Topic: Is it wrong to believe this about hell?  (Read 4502 times)

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Anonymous

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Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
« on: February 13, 2017, 06:29:16 PM »
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  • Is it wrong to believe that, of the 'majority' that doesn't make it to heaven, a good 'chunk' of that population doesn't suffer much, if at all, in hell? Perhaps they go to a place like limbo or limbo itself. Perhaps there is a temporary suffering in hell for some souls and then they are admitted into a non suffering 'part' of hell...or something. I've just been feeling so utterly depressed  and desparate over many things lately. I've also been thinking about all of the suffering in this world. And it fills me with such dread, fear, and sadness to think that those who suffer in this world may suffer more in the next life....eternally! I know that the fires and torments are reserved for the truly wicked. I don't want to have a black and white view of life, though. There is black  (evil, wicked people), there is white  (good, righteous people), and then there is an enormous gray area in between. Not just evil and righteous. I know that heaven isn't a right and all that, but why does the opposite have to be horrific torment and misery in gehenna? Why cant the gehenna in hell be for those who are truly wicked, who commit grave sins and know that they are grave yet don't care? And the limbo of hell be for the faultlessly misguided and those who may have committed sins, but didn't know these things were grave or even bad... Especially for people who suffer a lot in this life. I hope that God takes into consideration their experiences here on earth and gives them rest in the next, either in heaven or in hell. Consigning 99.99 percent of the population of the world to the fires of hell just makes me afraid. It makes me afraid of doing anything. It makes me afraid for those I love, those I know, those who I feel bad for, etc. It makes God seem contradictory, and His sacrifice on vain. How many times does he profess His tender love for mankind in scripture? His Sacred Heart revelations. "Behold the heart which has loved men..." Seriously the only way I can reconcile His love for us, in relation to His justice,  is that only the grave,  truly evil, truly wicked people go to gehenna; and the grey area, especially those who suffered so so so so so much in this life, go to limbo or something. God's justice says "They cannot enter heaven." But His Love and Mercy says "I will grant them rest in limbo." And I speak here of the unbaptized people...  :cry:

    Offline Miseremini

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 06:52:53 PM »
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  • It is impossible for us to know the balance between God's Mercy and God's Justice.
    We only need to know that both are perfect.

    Remember, there are levels/degrees of hell and of heaven.

    God leaves nothing to chance.

    Most Sacred Heart of Jesus I place my trust in Thee!
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Matto

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 07:09:07 PM »
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  • I am more pessimistic about hell. I think there is more suffering and more people go there.

    Online Stubborn

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #3 on: February 14, 2017, 05:33:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Is it wrong to believe that, of the 'majority' that doesn't make it to heaven, a good 'chunk' of that population doesn't suffer much, if at all, in hell? Perhaps they go to a place like limbo or limbo itself. Perhaps there is a temporary suffering in hell for some souls and then they are admitted into a non suffering 'part' of hell...or something.


    Snip from a sermon on hell from Fr. Wathen:
    ...Intrinsic in the idea of hell is it's everlastingness. One cannot conceive of a punishment sufficient for those who have defied God all their lives, till their deaths, and who have simply refused to accept God in His sovereignty and refused to do His will. It is altogether contrary, repugnant to reason that there would not be a punishment. This punishment has to last forever simply because these individuals, if hell did not last forever, would have beaten God. They would have defied Him and gotten away with it.  

    So of course, those who go to hell, don't go for temporary chastisement, they go there because they hate God and they will never do other. That is why hell lasts always, just as the devils do not hate God less because they have been there who knows how many eons. If anything, we would say that the devils hate God more after all that they have suffered because their suffering does not determine whether they will serve Him or despise Him, their own wills determine this.

    Our Lord spoke of hell 15 times in the Scriptures and the things that He said make it clear to us that hell is a state and a place of everlasting burning. He mentioned hell more often, more times then He mentioned the doctrine of the Blessed Eucharist. Among the things He said - "Depart from me ye cursed ones, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels."...

    "...where the worm dieth not, neither is the fire quenched". And therein does Christ tell us of the two terrible torments of hell. "The worm that dieth not" refers to the pain of loss and the "fire that is not quenched" refers to the pain of sense. Because people are inclined to give too much intention to the pain of sense, we want you to consider the pain of loss, which is the essential punishment of hell.

    The pain of loss is simply the everlasting recognition that one is in hell because one chose to be there. On earth he made his alibis and he pointed fingers at others and he imagined that he is going to blame his parents or blame society or blame hard luck, but in hell, no one blames anyone but himself because in hell, everyone knows why he is there, because he knows that he has rejected God -  and in turn, God has, despite His love, rejected him. And the pain of loss is that terrible torment of the recognition of what one might have done but did not. That one might be enjoying the beatitude of heaven, but will never.....

    Do not be afraid to abandon yourself unreservedly to His loving Providence, for a child cannot perish in the arms of a Father Who is omnipotent.

    St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

    Offline Matthew

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #4 on: February 14, 2017, 08:49:00 AM »
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  • The problem with the OP's reasoning is that he fails to consider that choosing oneself over God in any serious matter makes one "gravely evil". In other words, any mortal sin.

    You don't have to have books written about you. You don't have to be a poster boy for evil, like Adolf Hitler has become (thanks to the Jewish media his evil is exaggerated to be the worst in history or some such nonsense). You don't have to be a notorious dictator like Stalin or Pol Pot to go to Hell and suffer great pains there.

    A feminist who chose her own pride, her own glory, over God's will for her is plenty evil. There are plenty of "acceptable by the world" crimes which are grave in God's eyes.

    The world doesn't care at all about blasphemy. But as Scripture says, "blasphemers will not enter the Kingdom of God"

    And the world certainly doesn't care if you become Catholic or not. But rejecting God's Church isn't a small crime. If one suspects that the Catholic Church is true (and most men must know about the Catholic Church at this point, and the thought crosses their minds at some point...) but rejects it, how is he not worthy of eternal fire and a very real pain?

    Sure, the dismissal might be superficial and flippant, like some neo-pagan woman saying to herself, "Me Catholic? Yeah right. I could never have 15 kids. Next..." and that's the only thought she gave God's church during her whole life. But how is that guiltless? She was unwilling to trust in God. She willfully ignored all the happy Catholic families that existed. She ignored all the evidence that it was quite "possible". She rejected God's will. She chose her will, her pleasure and her comfort in this life. How does God owe her any kind of eternal rest?

    And she cowardly chose to side with the World -- God's constant enemy -- over God. She chose to stay in the world's favor, with her worldly lifestyle, human respect, her birth control limited number of children, and everything done on her terms. She denied Christ in this world. How is it not just that Christ deny her in the next world?

    But you'd never see a woman like this portrayed in a movie as an evil bad guy. More like the protagonist you're supposed to root for and/or identify with!
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!


    Anonymous

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #5 on: February 14, 2017, 07:23:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Is it wrong to believe that, of the 'majority' that doesn't make it to heaven, a good 'chunk' of that population doesn't suffer much, if at all, in hell? Perhaps they go to a place like limbo or limbo itself. Perhaps there is a temporary suffering in hell for some souls and then they are admitted into a non suffering 'part' of hell...or something. I've just been feeling so utterly depressed  and desparate over many things lately. I've also been thinking about all of the suffering in this world. :
    when i was younger, i could have written the same thing (will read the rest of your post later)

    But i got older and i experienced many things and saw much evil... and you know.. when you see people claiming 2b Christian who do just awful things.. even to other Christians, well. I have gotten highly cynical. And i dont have one problem w/ the notion of the evil ones, the phony Christians and etc... being in eternal misery. I know that sounds awful, but you know.. They show by their lives that doing their own thing is more imporant than doing God's thing and i just don't care about them. I sometimes pray for them but some people are very difficult to pray 4... so.. um... yeh

    Many of the saints say VERY few (Jesus said few) do not make it. I just dont have one problem believing that anymore. Some people can't even do the minimal requirement of being christian..  

    Offline Lighthouse

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #6 on: February 14, 2017, 11:39:10 PM »
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  • Quote
    Many of the saints say VERY few (Jesus said few) do not make it.


    I'm sure you meant that very few do make it to Heaven.

    Quote
    Some people can't even do the minimal requirement of being christian..  


    Sorry, but that is in no way the "minimal requirement".

    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 12:48:03 AM »
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  • Hell is forever


    Anonymous

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 03:48:15 PM »
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  • This is the OP, and I wanna say thanks for the replies. Honestly,  I feel like I'm slowly descending into disbelief. Maybe deist or agnostic or some other. I still believe in God, and I still kind of believe in the afterlife, but really I'm just losing faith in Catholicism's view of God and heaven and hell and all that. I mean, what if Christianity is just another religion? Like islam or something. I've always had problems with the whole EENS idea. I read that God wills all men to be saved, yet why doesn't He give a clear and concise path to all men then? He allows so many to remain in ignorance and suffering. Then just damns them to the fire? I know the traditional christian idea that heaven is not a right, it's only a gift, no one deserves it; but still, why does the alternate have to be so terrible? Why can't it be that heaven is an extraordinary end, while hell is the ordinary end. And by hell, I don't mean tormenting agony. Well, except for truly wicked people. Not for people who remained in ignorance and suffering, without knowing what was true and what was false. And the whole sufficient grace hypothesis is also kind of problematic for me. Maybe I am misunderstanding it, but it seriously seems equivalent to seeing someone drowning in a lake and then throwing a clear plastic bag to them. That what sufficient grace seems to be. Something so insignificant and indiscernible in the chaos.  And we are still being horribly punished in the afterlife for not being able to utilize it? It's also like punishing a baby for not being able to solve an algebra problem. It really seems unfair. What really triggered all of this for me was reading about missing people. People who have their loved ones kidnapped or just dissappear for whatever reason. I can't imagine living like that, my loved one dissapearing and never seeing them again. Dying not knowing where they are, where they went or what happened to them. And I think to myself, "Well, if they couldn't have rest and see each other in this life, then at least they have the next life..." And that's when the extremely narrow and limited Catholic view of the afterlife pops in. And then I feel quite hopless. For them and for everyone,  including myself. And from this hoplessness there stems a quiet thought that perhaps there is NOTHING after death. That way, we can ALL have rest. Just go to sleep and never wake up. Even if the wicked have the same rest as the poor suffering people, at least the suffering have rest. That renders the wickeds' rest totally irrelevant. I also have been readin about human trafficking, satanic ritail abuse, and other horrible things that happen in this world. The reason why I empathize particularly with missing persons cases is that I myself went through a missing person crisis when I was 12. It was and is nothing compared to the experiences of other people,  but it still had a profound effect on me. Basically,  my mother went 'missing' for around 5 hours. She didn't actually go missing, but she left her phone somewhere and didn't have it on her so she never picked up when I called her. I don't remember all of the details of that night, but I definitely remember the anguish and desparation. I was panicking, freaking out, and crying. I was crying SO hard. At one point I even felt like I was hyperventilating. I was extremely heartbroken and I just can't describe well enough with words what I felt. But finally, my mother called and explained why she hadnt picked up or told anyone where she went. So my crisis had a happy ending. Even though it left me with separation anxiety until I was 16. Though, even now it manisfests itself somtimes. But when I read of other people who go missing, and their families searching for days, months, years, decades, entire lifetimes! And never finding them, or finding them dead... These stories, I think, trigger within me what I felt that night 7 years ago. And I am filled with so much sadness for them that I feel like Dante when he heard the story of Francesca:  


    The other one did weep so, that, for pity,
    I swooned away as if I had been dying,


    And fell, even as a dead body falls.



    I just want them to see each other again in the next life. All people who have been seperated. By natural or criminal means.  :cry: And I absolutely cannot be happy or at peace knowing the daily suffering of millions around the world.  Another thing that bothers me is the Christian idea of collective punishment or guilt. The idea that individuals are punished for the sins of other individuals. Everyone should be responsible for their own sins,  not the sins of others. We shouldn't suffer for Adam and Eves sin. Makes no sense to me. I like, however,  the eastern Christian view of the afterlife. It's not so defined and excessively detailed like the western view.  It's a little more abstract and I guess that gives it a little more wiggle room. I even read from some eastern Christians that there may be a chance for repentance after death...thats comforting. I still might pray the rosary everyday. Still will most likely pray before I eat, go to bed, etc. Though my faith and motivation for life are both dwindling very quickly.

    P.s. I see that some people are saying that hell is eternal. I  am not denying that. I am only denying the traditional view that hell is all fire and torment.  I'd like to believe that only a part of hell is like that. Well, theres my long rant. I just like pouring out my thoughts. Even if no one reads or cares.

    Offline nctradcath

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #9 on: February 15, 2017, 06:27:59 PM »
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  • You should pray the Rosary and ask Our Lady for the gift of faith.

    Jesus and Mary,
    David

    Offline nctradcath

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #10 on: February 15, 2017, 06:29:18 PM »
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  • She will give it to you. She had the most faith of any creature.


    Offline Nadir

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #11 on: February 15, 2017, 09:08:41 PM »
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  • I am sorry for your suffering, OP. It sounds like you were well and truly traumatised by your Mother's temporary disappearance. But please do not doubt God's ability to deal with all the evil in this world. God is all powerful, all mercy, all justice, all love and He knows the best way for each and every person who ever lived or who lives or who ever will live.

    Meditate on His suffering. Nobody knows more on the meaning of suffering than He does.

    You talk about ignorance and suffering together, but please remember that one can suffer in ignorance (and God knows each persons situation) or you can suffer in the knowlege that suffering can bring us rich rewards, both in this life and in the next. It all depends on our attitude towards it.

    You can offer your own suffering up for your own and other souls. Call on the souls in Purgatory (you never mention them) to assist you in your understanding. Ask your Heavenly Mother to come to your aid.

    Offline poche

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #12 on: February 16, 2017, 12:03:15 AM »
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  • One of the great dangers of this century, and thus one of the great triumphs of Satan, has been the growing disbelief in the existence of Hell. For many, Hell has become a fable, a myth, an outdated holdover from "the Old Testament God of fire, brimstone and judgment." Urged on by false doctrines, the idolizing of pleasure and self, and an infantile rejection of eternal punishment for serious wrongs "when Jesus is a God of love and kindness," many have thrown Hell out the window - along with horror for sin. After all, if there is no Hell, then why be concerned about sin? Unfortunately, they forget that "I the Lord do not change" (Malachi 3:6). Hell has not suddenly evaporated because we would prefer it so. How subtle Satan is in these times. He increasingly tricks people into his web by disguising its very existence. He wants you to let down your guard. For the love of Jesus, and of your immortal soul, do not be deceived. Hell, eternal punishment for serious sins, exists. Scripture, the Church and the testimonies of many saints all confirm that Hell is a reality - a never-ending reality for those souls who must reside there with Satan and all the other damned forever, because by their own free will and choice they rejected God while on earth and excluded themselves from communion with Him forever.

    http://www.tldm.org/News8/RealityOfHell.htm

    Anonymous

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #13 on: February 16, 2017, 01:00:17 AM »
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  • Just in case you might want to consider the following.. according to one medical source more than 1 in ten people have troubles this way, it's often hereditary.. but there're good ways to get health and happiness.. this is from a  health info page:

    Signs and Symptoms
    Generalized Anxiety Disorder

    People with generalized anxiety disorder display excessive anxiety or worry for months and face several anxiety-related symptoms.

    Generalized anxiety disorder symptoms include:

        Restlessness or feeling wound-up or on edge
        Being easily fatigued
        Difficulty concentrating or having their minds go blank
        Irritability
        Muscle tension
        Difficulty controlling the worry
        Sleep problems (difficulty falling or staying asleep or restless, unsatisfying sleep)

    Panic Disorder

    People with panic disorder have recurrent unexpected panic attacks, which are sudden periods of intense fear that may include palpitations, pounding heart, or accelerated heart rate; sweating; trembling or shaking; sensations of shortness of breath, smothering, or choking; and feeling of impending doom.

    Panic disorder symptoms include:

        Sudden and repeated attacks of intense fear
        Feelings of being out of control during a panic attack
        Intense worries about when the next attack will happen
        Fear or avoidance of places where panic attacks have occurred in the past

    Social Anxiety Disorder

    People with social anxiety disorder (sometimes called “social phobia”) have a marked fear of social or performance situations in which they expect to feel embarrassed, judged, rejected, or fearful of offending others.

    Social anxiety disorder symptoms include:

        Feeling highly anxious about being with other people and having a hard time talking to them
        Feeling very self-conscious in front of other people and worried about feeling humiliated, embarrassed, or rejected, or fearful of offending others
        Being very afraid that other people will judge them
        Worrying for days or weeks before an event where other people will be
        Staying away from places where there are other people
        Having a hard time making friends and keeping friends
        Blushing, sweating, or trembling around other people
        Feeling nauseous or sick to your stomach when other people are around

    Evaluation for an anxiety disorder often begins with a visit to a primary care provider. Some physical health conditions, such as an overactive thyroid or low blood sugar, as well as taking certain medications, can imitate or worsen an anxiety disorder. A thorough mental health evaluation is also helpful, because anxiety disorders often co-exist with other related conditions, such as depression or obsessive-compulsive disorder.

    Risk Factors

    Researchers are finding that genetic and environmental factors, frequently in interaction with one another, are risk factors for anxiety disorders. Specific factors include:

        Shyness, or behavioral inhibition, in childhood
        Being female
        Having few economic resources
        Being divorced or widowed
        Exposure to stressful life events in childhood and adulthood
        Anxiety disorders in close biological relatives
        Parental history of mental disorders
        Elevated afternoon cortisol levels in the saliva (specifically for social anxiety disorder)


    Online Stubborn

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    Is it wrong to believe this about hell?
    « Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 06:31:32 AM »
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    This is the OP, and I wanna say thanks for the replies. Honestly,  I feel like I'm slowly descending into disbelief. Maybe deist or agnostic or some other. I still believe in God, and I still kind of believe in the afterlife, but really I'm just losing faith in Catholicism's view of God and heaven and hell and all that. I mean, what if Christianity is just another religion? Like islam or something. I've always had problems with the whole EENS idea. I read that God wills all men to be saved, yet why doesn't He give a clear and concise path to all men then? He allows so many to remain in ignorance and suffering. Then just damns them to the fire? I know the traditional christian idea that heaven is not a right, it's only a gift, no one deserves it; but still, why does the alternate have to be so terrible?

    You have the whole wrong idea of hell - and therefore also heaven. No one is damned against their will, just as no one is saved against their will. You need to believe that. People, in choosing sin, choose hell of their own free will.

    This is a much more accurate depiction of what happens. Whenever you contemplate the matter, this is the way you would be better off thinking about it, perhaps then you might come to better understand why so many go to hell - it is of their own free will that they chose it. It's the same for everybody.


    Of the souls in hell, st. Alphonusus says: "If I had labored for God as much as I had labored for my damnation, I should have become a great saint...."

    Ecclesiasticus 15:18
    Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him.

    What matters is salvation. Among all the affairs of men, salvation is the only thing that matters. If a man saves his soul, all that he paid was negligible; if he loses his soul, everything else he did comes to waste and bitter memory. This is not to say that life on earth is unimportant; on the contrary, it is immeasurably important, because everything one does pertains to eternity, whether one means that it be so or not, or whether one believes that such is the case or not. In the final analysis, the question is not "to be or not to be;" it is rather, Heaven or Hell? He, therefore, who allows himself to be diverted from the quest for salvation is an utter fool; his life is worse than wasted: it is a consummate failure. "It were better for him, if that man had not been born." (Mt. 26:24). - Fr. Wathen - "Who Shall Ascend?"
    Do not be afraid to abandon yourself unreservedly to His loving Providence, for a child cannot perish in the arms of a Father Who is omnipotent.

    St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

     

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