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Author Topic: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful  (Read 26327 times)

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Offline SperaInDeo

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Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2022, 09:57:48 AM »
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  • So much for Matthew’s contention that nobody here is justifying the recreational use of MJ.

    I have nothing more to add.

    Good. You should extend your Cathinfo fast through Pentecost. And while you’re waiting, buy this one (it’s very cheap) and read the section on intemperance:

    https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/edward-farrell-and-charles-callan-and-john-mchugh/moral-theology/paperback/product-5j9rnz.html?page=1&pageSize=4

    Jone, Prummer, and McHugh’s Moral Theology all say the same thing. You’re beaten. 

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #31 on: April 21, 2022, 09:58:58 AM »
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  • More to ponder with regards to the sin of scandal:

    Would it be okay for a priest to roll a low dose joint at a social event?  Not to get high but just to relax and help with his anxiety and back pain?

    How about nuns?

    I was going to bring this up in the vulgar language thread as well.  If there is nothing wrong with vulgar language and it's a necessary evil to wake people up, shouldn't priests start to employ its use regularly?

    And the nuns as well...
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #32 on: April 21, 2022, 10:06:32 AM »
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  • A social stigma (i.e. most people don't consider it "normal") doesn't mean it's a moral scandal.  Most people consider buying whiskey/vodka at the liquor store to be "normal"...but they would not ever consider drinking safely-produced moonshine (because it's "weird" and "not safe").  There is a social stigma attached to moonshine (same as MJ) due to potential illegality but this is not the same as a true, moral scandal.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #33 on: April 21, 2022, 10:09:34 AM »
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  • More to ponder with regards to the sin of scandal:

    I was going to bring this up in the vulgar language thread as well.  If there is nothing wrong with vulgar language and it's a necessary evil to wake people up, shouldn't priests start to employ its use regularly?

    In and of itself, the use of vulgar language is not an evil at all, necessary or otherwise.  Your intention to distort that fact for the sake of your argument/s does not change reality.

    An excellent piece by Fr. Faber on taking scandal.  Enjoy:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-library/father-frederick-faber-spiritual-conferences-'on-taking-scandal'/msg369595/#msg369595


    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #34 on: April 21, 2022, 10:11:25 AM »
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  • You could also argue that seeing a priest/nun wearing a sports team hat or wearing Nike tennis shoes would be a "scandal" (there are many degrees of scandal and also some people misuse the word instead of "shock") but it wouldn't necessarily be a sin.  Much like post-V2 priests starting wanting to be called "Fr Jim" instead of using their last names...is that a sin?  I can't say for sure, but it surely is a social norm they are deteriorating.  Priests/nuns are a special class of person so using them in an argument is dumb.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #35 on: April 21, 2022, 10:13:05 AM »
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  • More to ponder with regards to the sin of scandal:

    Would it be okay for a priest to roll a low dose joint at a social event?  Not to get high but just to relax and help with his anxiety and back pain?

    How about nuns?

    I was going to bring this up in the vulgar language thread as well.  If there is nothing wrong with vulgar language and it's a necessary evil to wake people up, shouldn't priests start to employ its use regularly?

    And the nuns as well...

    Passing gas isn't a venial sin, but it would be ill advised for any priest to eat choice foods in advance, and then let a loud one rip on purpose.

    It's more about social mores, politeness, decent behavior, dignity, etc. than a question of sin.

    I would submit that 100% of these people would be scandalized *just as much* or 99% as much by those same priests/nuns lighting up a regular cigarette. And so...
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #36 on: April 21, 2022, 10:14:16 AM »
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  • Good. You should extend your Cathinfo fast through Pentecost. And while you’re waiting, buy this one (it’s very cheap) and read the section on intemperance:

    https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/edward-farrell-and-charles-callan-and-john-mchugh/moral-theology/paperback/product-5j9rnz.html?page=1&pageSize=4

    Jone, Prummer, and McHugh’s Moral Theology all say the same thing. You’re beaten.

    Can you quote the parts where they specifically address the morality of recreational use of Marijuana?

    ”No Sean, they just lay out the principles which pertain to intoxication.”

    OK, then (leaving aside the insufficiency and error of those who have limited their moral conclusions by only addressing the issue of intoxication), here’s an article for you addressing the morality of recreational MJ use according to the principles of St. Thomas Aquinas (discussing both the matter of intoxication, as well as additional morally aggravating circuмstances):

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5102207/

    Introductory excerpt:

    Abstract

    Several empirical studies suggest that recreational marijuana is popularly perceived as an essentially harmless rite of passage that ends as young people settle into their careers and their adult intimate relationships. Is this perception accurate? To answer this question, we evaluate the morality of recreational marijuana use from a virtue perspective guided by the theological synthesis of St. Thomas Aquinas. Since the medical data reveals that recreational marijuana use is detrimental to the well-being of the user, we conclude that it is a vicious activity, an instance of the vice of intoxication, and as such would be morally illicit.

    Lay summary
    In contrast to its medical use, the recreational use of marijuana cannot be justified for at least three reasons. First, as scientists have amply docuмented, it harms the organic functioning of the human body. Second, it impedes our ability to reason and in so doing does harm to us. Finally, it has lasting detrimental effects on the user and his neighbor, even when it occurs in a casual setting. Intoxication is always contrary to the integral good of the person. Thus, the use of marijuana is never warranted even for good, non-medical reasons.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #37 on: April 21, 2022, 10:16:16 AM »
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  • I don't think I'm being unreasonable, as if I'm erecting some kind of strawman. Because certain persons are IN FACT using terms like "doper" and "pothead" which *certainly* implies not only excessive, free, unrestricted use of pot, but also the entire corresponding (libertine, licentious) lifestyle as well. THAT is what I was denying: we don't have any actual "potheads" on CathInfo. Nor anyone truly promoting the stuff for "fun" or "recreational" use aside from "roscoe".

    And no, intellectual discussions about theoretical justified use for non-medicinal purposes is NOT the same thing.

    What you have in bold here just isn't sinking in for some reason.


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #38 on: April 21, 2022, 10:17:07 AM »
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  • Excerpt from a 2019 SSPX article (Note this article discusses recreational use, not medical use):

    Is Using Marijuana a Sin?
    The primary effect of the THC is to induce the “high,” and it is practically very rare that one could effectively avoid the stultifying effects of the drug.
    For all of the above reasons – that is, impairing of the ability to think and judge properly, damage to the brain, fleeing from reality, unknown physical or psychosomatic effects, difficulty in dosing - moralists conclude that, even though the use of marijuana does not entirely totally suppress the use of reason, it is certainly gravely imprudent to use it.
    Thus, the deliberate use of marijuana for recreational purposes is a mortal sin.“


    https://florida.sspx.org/en/news-events/news/get-pot-just-say-no-47742


    So, a single "primary" false premise is spun hysterically into a plural, "all the above reasons."

    And from that false premise—a gratuitous denial of dose titration—the entire pseudo-syllogism falls.

    Please add the rejection of pre-Vatican II moral theology to "As We Are."


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #39 on: April 21, 2022, 10:19:29 AM »
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  • Quote
    Since the medical data reveals that recreational marijuana use is detrimental to the well-being of the user, we conclude that it is a vicious activity,


    Sean, here is where I'd attack this article. I don't trust the premise.

    "Medical data" also showed that wearing masks was a good idea, the Jab decreased COVID transmission, vaccines are safe...

    Need I go on?

    Whose medical data? Maybe studies funded by Big Tobacco, defending their turf against the competition?

    Let's just say I'm suspicious. Because more recent "medical data" seems to suppose the opposite conclusion. Or else you wouldn't *have* medical dispensaries of marijuana. Medicinal pot wouldn't be a thing -- it would be an oxymoron.

    Mark79?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #40 on: April 21, 2022, 10:19:33 AM »
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  • Quote
    Lay summary
    In contrast to its medical use, the recreational use of marijuana cannot be justified for at least three reasons. First, as scientists have amply docuмented, it harms the organic functioning of the human body. Second, it impedes our ability to reason and in so doing does harm to us. Finally, it has lasting detrimental effects on the user and his neighbor, even when it occurs in a casual setting. Intoxication is always contrary to the integral good of the person. Thus, the use of marijuana is never warranted even for good, non-medical reasons.


    Sean, your Summary used the word "intoxication".  That's not what we're discussing...


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #41 on: April 21, 2022, 10:20:14 AM »
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  • Thus, the use of marijuana is never warranted even for good, non-medical reasons.

    False.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #42 on: April 21, 2022, 10:20:25 AM »
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  • I would submit that 100% of these people would be scandalized *just as much* or 99% as much by those same priests/nuns lighting up a regular cigarette. And so...

    No doubt.  For 20+ years I have been told by ignorant, ill-formed, busybodies throughout Traddieland that I shouldn't smoke -- many times in the parking lot after Mass at this or that chapel.  Usually, they say something like, "You shouldn't smoke; it isn't good for your health."  My response has always been, "You shouldn't tell people (you don't know very well and who are 6'3", 200+) what they should or should not do; it isn't good for your health."  Not surprisingly, that ends the conversation, at least on that one, silly point.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #43 on: April 21, 2022, 10:21:54 AM »
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  • In and of itself, the use of vulgar language is not an evil at all, necessary or otherwise.  Your intention to distort that fact for the sake of your argument/s does not change reality.

    An excellent piece by Fr. Faber on taking scandal.  Enjoy:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-library/father-frederick-faber-spiritual-conferences-'on-taking-scandal'/msg369595/#msg369595





    So you see nothing wrong with nuns going around saying "sh**" or "what a b***" or  "f***" or lighting up a doobie?  (and no, a joint is not the same as a cigarette)

    The only wrong would be the person who sees it as a scandal?  (I'm not saying that taking scandal needlessly and rash judgement isn't wrong btw.)

    Could these actions have a negative effect on someone's faith similar to what St Paul described as being seen eating meat in a temple?

    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Why Marijuana is Gravely Sinful
    « Reply #44 on: April 21, 2022, 10:23:58 AM »
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  • Can you quote the parts where they specifically address the morality of recreational use of Marijuana?

    Sure! In my 1961 edition of Jone, section 110, he lays out the principles for intoxication, rules we are probably all familiar with. Subsection c) says the following:

    Quote
    Since morphine, opium, chloroform and similar drugs can also deprive one of the use of his reason temporarily, that which was said of intoxicating drinks holds also for narcotics.

    To use narcotics in small quantities and only occasionally, is a venial sin if done without a sufficient reason. Any proportionately good reason justifies their use, e.g., to calm the nerves, dispel insomnia, etc. Such use becomes gravely sinful if it creates an habitual craving for "dope", which is more difficult to overcome than dipsomania and more injurious to health.