Author Topic: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)  (Read 1102 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
« on: August 23, 2020, 07:28:00 PM »
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  • “Let’s save our children from the health dictatorship! Let’s save Italy from the ferocious global tyranny!”

    [NB: Commentary to follow - SJ]


    Dearest Mothers,

    Dear Sirs,

    I have received your kind email, in which you inform me of the initiative you have scheduled for this coming September 5 for the protection of the physical, moral, and spiritual health of your children. In responding to you, I address all the mothers of Italy.

    The demonstration you are promoting intends to express the dissent of citizens and in particular of parents against the norms that the government, abusing its power, is preparing to issue in view of the new school year; norms that will have very grave repercussions on the health and psychosomatic equilibrium of students, as authoritative experts have rightly demonstrated.

    First of all, the systematic effort to demolish the family, the foundation of society, must be denounced, with the multiplication of ferocious attacks not only against conjugal life, which Christ has elevated to a Sacrament, but also against its very natural essence, against the fact that marriage is by nature constituted between a man and a woman in an indissoluble bond of fidelity and reciprocal assistance. The presence of a father and a mother is fundamental in the upbringing of children, who need a male and female figure as a reference for their integral and harmonious development; nor can it be permitted that children, during the most delicate phase of their infancy and adolescence, be used to advance partisan ideological claims, with serious damage for their psychosomatic equilibrium, by those who with their own rebellious behavior reject the very idea of nature. You can easily understand the impact of the destruction of the family on the civil consortium: today we have right before our eyes the results of decades of unfortunate policies that inevitably lead to the dissolution of society.

    These policies, inspired by principles that are repugnant both to the Law of nature inscribed in man by the Creator as well as to the positive Law of God given in the Commandments, combine to permit children to be placed at the mercy of the whims of individuals, and that the sacredness of life and conception become objects of commerce, humiliating motherhood and the dignity of woman. Sons cannot be bred by mares for a fee, because they are the fruit of a love that Providence has ordained must always be an enduring love, even in the natural order.

    Parents have the responsibility, as a primary and inalienable right, to educate their children: the State cannot arrogate this right, much less corrupt children and indoctrinate them in the perverse principles that are so widespread today. Do not forget, dear mothers, that this is the distinctive sign of totalitarian regimes, not of a civil and Christian nation. It is your duty to raise your voice so that these attempts to steal the education of your children may be denounced and rejected with force, because you will be able to do very little for them if your faith, ideas, and culture are judged incompatible with those of an impious and materialistic state. And it is not just a matter of imposing a vaccine on your children and teenagers, but also of corrupting their souls with perverse doctrines, with gender ideology, with the acceptance of vice and the practice of sinful behaviors. No law can ever legitimately make the affirmation of the truth a crime, because the authority of the law ultimately comes from God, who is himself the highest Truth. The heroic testimony of the martyrs and saints responded to the oppression of tyrants: may you too today be courageous witnesses of Christ against a world that would like to subject us to the unleashed forces of hell!

    Another crucial aspect in this battle for the family is the defense of life from conception to natural death. The crime of abortion, which has claimed millions of innocent victims and that cries out for vengeance from heaven, is today considered as a normal health service, and just in recent days the Italian government has authorized the more widespread use of the abortion pill, encouraging an abominable crime and keeping silent about the terrible consequences on the psychological and physical health of the mother. If you think about how during the lockdown all care of the sick was suspended and yet abortions continued, you can understand what the priorities of those who govern us are: the culture of death! What progress can be invoked when society kills its own children, when motherhood is horribly violated in the name of a choice that cannot be free, since it involves the ending of an innocent life and violates one of God’s Commandments? What prosperity can our country expect, what blessings from God can it hope for, if human sacrifices are being made in our clinics just as in the times of the most bloody barbarism?

    The idea that children are the property of the state repulses every human person. In the Christian social order, the civil authority exercises its power to guarantee its citizens that the natural well-being is ordered towards the spiritual good. The common good pursued by the state in temporal things therefore has a well-defined object that cannot and must not be in conflict with the Law of God, the Supreme Legislator. Every time that the State infringes on this eternal and immutable Law, its authority is diminished, and its citizens ought to refuse to obey it. This certainly applies to the hateful law on abortion, but it should also be applied to other cases, in which the abuse of authority regards the imposition of vaccines whose danger is unknown or that, by their very composition, are ethically problematic. I am referring to the case in which a vaccine would contain fetal material coming from the bodies of aborted children.

    But there are other disturbing aspects now envisaged, which regard not only the content of instruction but also the method of participation in the lessons: social distancing, the use of masks and other forms of presumed prevention of contagion in classrooms and school environments cause serious damage to the mental and physical equilibrium of children and young people, compromising their ability to learn, the interpersonal relations between pupils and teachers, and reducing them to automatons that are not only ordered what to think but also how to move and even how to breathe. It seems that the very notion of common sense that ought to govern choices fraught with consequences in social life has been lost, and it seems that an inhumane world is being heralded in which parents have their children taken away from them if they test positive for an influenza virus, with mandatory health treatment protocols applied as in the most ferocious dictatorships.

    It is also very perplexing to learn that the WHO has chosen Mario Monti as the President of the European Commission for Health and Development, who has distinguished himself by draconian measures imposed on Italy, among which, it must not be forgotten, is the drastic reduction of public appropriations for hospitals. These perplexities are confirmed by Monti’s membership in supranational organisms like the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderberg Club, whose aims are in clear contrast to the inalienable values protected by the Italian Constitution itself, which are binding on the Government. This mixing of private interests in public affairs, inspired by the dictates of Masonic and globalist thought, should be vigorously denounced by those who are representatives of the citizens, and by those who see their legitimate powers usurped by an elite that has never made a mystery of its true intentions.

    We should not lose sight of a fundamental element: the pursuit of ideologically perverse goals is invariably accompanied by an interest of an economic nature, like a parallel track. It is easy to agree on the fact that there is no profit in the voluntary donation of umbilical cords, just as there is no profit in the donation of hyper-immune plasma for the treatment of Covid. Conversely, it is extremely profitable for abortion clinics to provide fetal tissue and for pharmaceutical companies to produce monoclonal antibodies or artificial plasma. Thus it is not surprising that, following a logic of mere profit, the most reasonable and ethically sustainable solutions are the object of a deliberate campaign to discredit them: we have heard self-styled experts make themselves promoters of cures offered by companies in which they themselves – in a clear conflict of interest – hold shares or are well paid consultants.

    Having said this, it is necessary to understand whether the solution of a vaccine is always and everywhere the best health response to a virus. In the case of Covid, for example, many exponents of the scientific community agree in affirming that it is more useful to develop a natural immunity rather than inoculate the depowered virus. But also in this case, as we know, herd immunity is attained without any costs, while vaccination campaigns involve enormous investments and guarantee equally large profits for those who patent and produce them. And it should also be verified – but in this the experts will certainly be able to speak with greater confidence – whether it is possible to produce a vaccine for a virus that does not yet seem to have been isolated according to the protocols of science-based medicine, and what potential consequences may come from using newly generated genetically modified vaccines.

    The world health industry, led by the WHO, has become a true multinational corporation that has as its primary end the profit of shareholders (pharmaceutical companies and so-called philanthropic foundations), and its means of pursuing it is the transformation of citizens into chronically ill people. And it is obvious: the pharmaceutical companies want to make money by selling drugs and vaccines; if eliminating diseases and producing effective drugs leads to a reduction in the number of sick people and thus of profits, it will only be logical to expect that the drugs they make will be ineffective and that the vaccines they promote will be the instrument of spreading diseases rather than eradicating them. And this is precisely what is happening. How can we think that the search for cures and therapies is being promoted in a disinterested way if those who finance the search profit disproportionately from the persistence of pathologies?

    It may seem difficult to persuade ourselves that those who ought to be protecting health instead wish to ensure the continuation of illnesses: such cynicism repulses – and rightly so – those who are strangers to the mentality that has been established in healthcare. And yet this is what is happening right before our eyes, and it involves not only the emergence of Covid and vaccines – in particular anti-influenza vaccines, which were widely distributed in 2019 right in those areas where Covid has had the highest number of victims [in 2020] – but all treatments and therapies, as well as childbirth and care for the sick. Such cynicism, which is repugnant to the ethical code, sees in each of us a potential source of profit, while instead what should be seen in every patient is the face of the suffering Christ. We therefore appeal to the many, many Catholic doctors and all doctors of good will, asking you not to betray the Hippocratic oath and the very heart of your profession, which is mercy and compassion, love for those who suffer, and selfless service to the weakest among us, recalling the words of Our Lord: “As often as you did these things for the least of my brothers, you did it for me” (Mt 25:40).

    The Catholic Church, especially in recent decades, has intervened authoritatively in this debate, thanks also to the Pontifical Academy for Life founded by John Paul II. Its members, up until a few years ago, gave medical-scientific directives that did not conflict with the inviolable moral principles of any Catholic person.

    But just as in civil society we have witnessed a progressive loss of responsibility of individuals as well as those who govern in the various spheres of public life, including health care, so also in the “Church of Mercy” that was born in 2013 it is preferred to adapt the commitment of the Pontifical Dicasteries and the Academy for Life to a liquid vision – and I dare say a perverse vision because it denies the truth – which embraces the demands of environmentalism with connotations of Malthusianism. The fight against abortion, which opposes the reduction of births desired by the New World Order, is no longer the priority of many pastors. During the various pro-life demonstrations – such as those held in Rome in recent years – the silence and absence of the Holy See and the hierarchy has been shameful!

    Obviously the moral principles which form the basis for norms to be adopted in the medical field remain perennially valid, nor could it be otherwise. The Church is the guardian of the teaching of Christ and she has no authority to modify or adapt it to her own liking. We remain bewildered, however, as we witness the silence of Rome, which appears to be more concerned with promoting recycling – to the point of writing an encyclical about it – rather than the lives of the unborn, the health of the weakest, and the assistance of the terminally ill. This is only one aspect of a much wider problem, a much greater crisis, which as I have said many times stems from the moment in which the deviant part of the Church, led by what was once the Society of Jesus, seized power and made her a slave to the mentality of the world.

    When we consider the new orientation of the Pontifical Academy for Life (whose presidency has been entrusted to a person who is well-known for having shown the best of himself when he was bishop of Terni), we cannot expect any condemnation of those who use fetal tissue from voluntarily aborted children. Its present members hope for mass vaccination and the universal brotherhood of the New World Order, contradicting previous pronouncements of the same Pontifical Academy.[1] In recent days the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales[2] has entered this anomalous wave. On the one hand it recognizes that “The Church is opposed to the production of vaccines using tissue derived from aborted fetuses, and we acknowledge the distress many Catholics experience when faced with a choice of not vaccinating their child or seeming to be complicit in abortion,” but it then affirms, in very grave contradiction with the stated unchanging principles of Catholic morality,[3] that “the Church teaches that the paramount importance of the health of a child and other vulnerable persons could permit parents to use a vaccine which was in the past developed using these diploid cell lines.” This statement lacks any doctrinal authority and instead aligns itself with the dominant ideology promoted by the WHO, its principal sponsor Bill Gates, and pharmaceutical companies.

    From a moral point of view, for every Catholic who intends to remain faithful to his or her Baptism, it is absolutely inadmissible to accept a vaccination that utilizes material coming from human fetuses in its process of production. This has also been restated authoritatively recently by the American Bishop Joseph E. Strickland in his April 27 Pastoral Letter[4] and in his August 1 tweet.[5]

    We must therefore pray to the Lord, asking him to give Pastors a voice, in such a way as to create a united front that opposes the excessive power of the globalist elite which would like to subjugate us all. It should be recalled that while the pharmaceutical companies are proceeding on the plane of economic interests only, there are people operating on the ideological plane who, using the opportunity of the vaccine, would also like to implant devices for identifying people, and that these nanotechnologies – I am referring to project ID2020, “quantum dots” and other similar initiatives – are being patented by the same individuals who patented the virus as well as its vaccine. Furthermore, a cryptocurrency project has been patented to allow not only health identification but also personal and banking information to be monitored, in a delirium of omnipotence that up until yesterday could have been dismissed as the ranting of conspiracy theorists, but that today has already been initiated in several countries, including for example Sweden and Germany. We see the words of Saint John taking shape right before our eyes: “It forced all the people, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to be given a mark on the right hand and the forehead; so that no one could buy or sell without having the mark” (Rev 13:16-17).

    Given the gravity of the situation, we must also speak out with regard to these aspects: we cannot remain silent if the public authority would make vaccines obligatory that pose serious ethical and moral problems, or that more prosaically do not give any guarantee of obtaining the promised effects and that are limited to promising benefits that from a scientific point of view are absolutely questionable. May the pastors of the Church finally raise their voice to defend the flock entrusted to their care in this systematic attack against God and man!

    Do not forget, dear Mothers, that this is a spiritual battle – even a war – in which powers that no one has ever elected and that do not have any authority other than that of force and the violent imposition of their own will seek to demolish all that evokes, even only remotely, the divine Paternity of God over His children, the Kingship of Christ over society and the Virginal Motherhood of Mary Most Holy. This is why they hate to mention the words father and mother; this is why they want an irreligious society that is rebellious against the Law of God; this is why they promote vice and detest virtue. This is also why they want to corrupt children and young people, securing hosts of obedient servants for the foreseeable future in which the name of God is being cancelled and the Redemptive Sacrifice of his Son on the Cross is blasphemed; a Cross that they want to banish because it reminds man that the purpose of his life is the glory of God, obedience to His Commandments and the exercise of Christian charity: not pleasure, self-exaltation, or the arrogant overpowering of the weak.

    The innocence of children and their trusting recourse to Mary Most Holy, our Heavenly Mother, can truly save the world: for this reason the Enemy aims to corrupt them in order to distance them from the Lord and to sow the seed of evil and sin in them.

    Dear mothers, never fail in your duty to protect your children not only in the material order but also, even more importantly, in the spiritual order. Cultivate in them the life of grace, with constant prayer, especially through the recitation of the Holy Rosary, with penance and fasting, with the practice of the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, assiduously and devotedly frequenting the Sacraments and Holy Mass. Nourish them with the Bread of Angels, the true food of eternal life and our defense from the assaults of the Evil One. Tomorrow, they will be honest citizens, responsible parents, and protagonists of the restoration of the Christian society that the world would like to cancel. And please also pray, dear mothers, because prayer is a truly fearful weapon and an infallible vaccine against the perverse dictatorship that is about to be imposed on us.

    I take this occasion to assure you of my prayer and to impart my Blessing to all of you: to you, dear mothers, and to your children, and to all those who are fighting to save our children and each one of us from this ferocious global tyranny that is striking our beloved Italy.

    + Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop

    15 August 2020
    Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary

    Official translation by Giuseppe Pellegrino[size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
    ___________[/font][/size]

    [1] Cf. Pontifical Academy for Life, Note on the Nature of Vaccination, 31 July 2017.

    [2] Cf. Bishops’ Confernce of England and Wales, The Catholic position on vaccination.


    [size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
    [5] Tweet of August 1, 2020: “I renew my call that we reject any vaccine that is developed using aborted children. Even if it originated decades ago it still means a child’s life was ended before it was born & then their body was used as spare parts. We will never end abortion if we do not END THIS EVIL!”[/font][/size]
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #1 on: August 23, 2020, 07:53:38 PM »
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  • The money quote:

    "When we consider the new orientation of the Pontifical Academy for Life (whose presidency has been entrusted to a person who is well-known for having shown the best of himself when he was bishop of Terni), we cannot expect any condemnation of those who use fetal tissue from voluntarily aborted children. Its present members hope for mass vaccination and the universal brotherhood of the New World Order, contradicting previous pronouncements of the same Pontifical Academy.[1] In recent days the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales[2] has entered this anomalous wave. On the one hand it recognizes that “The Church is opposed to the production of vaccines using tissue derived from aborted fetuses, and we acknowledge the distress many Catholics experience when faced with a choice of not vaccinating their child or seeming to be complicit in abortion,” but it then affirms, in very grave contradiction with the stated unchanging principles of Catholic morality,[3] that “the Church teaches that the paramount importance of the health of a child and other vulnerable persons could permit parents to use a vaccine which was in the past developed using these diploid cell lines.” This statement lacks any doctrinal authority and instead aligns itself with the dominant ideology promoted by the WHO, its principal sponsor Bill Gates, and pharmaceutical companies.

    From a moral point of view, for every Catholic who intends to remain faithful to his or her Baptism, it is absolutely inadmissible to accept a vaccination that utilizes material coming from human fetuses in its process of production."
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #2 on: August 23, 2020, 08:00:40 PM »
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  • Commentary:

    -A few months ago, we debated on this forum whether or not the abortive COVID19 vaccines would be permissible for Catholics to use.

    -We cited +Vigano as saying it was not morally possible.

    -The Menzingen shill appeared, obviously distraught that the SSPX should be exposed for permitting such a morally egregious action (i.e., The SSPX Warner, NY Academy Handbook states that when no religious exemption is permitted, then based on the non-authoritative and morally questionable 2005 Vatican study of the Pontifical Academy for Life (!) titled "moral reflections," Catholics may use such vaccines, despite their abortive origins).

    -The shill and others insisted I had not properly understood Vigano; that he could certainly not be presumed to be rejecting the 2005 non-magisterial study.

    Well, here you have it, folks:

    Vigano is saying for the second time, in equally unmistakable terms, that Catholics may never use such vaccines.

    Is it any wonder the SSPX is not championing Vigano?

    Vigano: "From a moral point of view, for every Catholic who intends to remain faithful to his or her Baptism, it is absolutely inadmissible to accept a vaccination that utilizes material coming from human fetuses in its process of production."
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #3 on: August 23, 2020, 08:33:38 PM »
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  • THIS is the hill to die on:

    Vaccination and damnation

    or

    Resistance, martyrdom, and salvation.

    No vaccine whatever the cost.

    God bless +Vigano!!!
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #4 on: August 23, 2020, 09:01:11 PM »
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  • PS: Regular CI readers may recall that I wrote to both +Vigano and +Strickland, to clarify their positions, but did not receive a response from either.  It would appear that we now have their response.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline claudel

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #5 on: August 23, 2020, 11:41:22 PM »
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  • I quite agree that this is a remarkable document. Sean has already drawn attention to sentences and paragraphs that are strikingly eloquent and admirably forthright. I would only add that here, as in earlier missives, ++Viganò takes pains to contextualize his arguments in ways both subtle and suggestive. I hardly think that he would write with such immense care if he did not wish or intend to create a body of instruction with didactic and pastoral significance—in other words, to do the sort of thing that bishops regularly did before the episcopacy was transformed by Vatican II into the College of Kumbaya.

    My sense is that ++Viganò, in all his messages since the dramatic first one, has been as interested in heuristics (stimulating investigation) as in hermeneutics (interpretation), history (specifically, of the subversion and betrayal of the Faith), and moral and doctrinal instruction (especially as it concerns the conciliar church's doctrinal discontinuity with the True Church). He always seems to be saying, as the Book of Revelation does, "Let him with ears to hear, listen," and here, as elsewhere, he makes glancing mention of ideas, conspiracies, and movements of the past and present that seem calculated to prompt those with ears to hear and minds pricked by curiosity to look up references to things they may know little or nothing about.

    I am thinking of the references to such present-day things as the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission or to such longer-standing enemies as "Masonic and globalist thought" and Malthusianism. Best and subtlest of all, however, is his identifying quantum dots and similar initiatives with the Mark of the Beast in Revelation. If the wider audience for this letter should turn out to be the ever-growing anti-vax community, a great many of whose non-Catholic members are evangelicals and fundies, the reference to Revelation—the most widely referenced book of the Bible in most non-mainstream Protestant sects—cannot fail to strike a chord with them.

    Last but not least, the evident sarcasm in the parenthetical note about the president of the Pontifical Academy for Life (what an Orwellian name!), formerly the bishop of Terni, led me to look him up. His name is Vincenzo Paglia, and all you need to know about him is to be found here. Mamma mia!

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #6 on: August 24, 2020, 12:07:57 AM »
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  • He missed something very important; Christ’s interpretation of the parable.

    “Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like to a net cast into the sea, and gathering together of all kinds of fishes, which when having filled, they drew out, and sitting by the shore, they chose out the good into vessels, but the bad they cast forth.
    So shall it be at the end of the world. The angels shall go out and shall separate the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire:
    There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

    Gospel of St. Matthew 13:47-50, DRB 

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #7 on: August 24, 2020, 12:50:58 AM »
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  • Wow, indeed! Disgusting!


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #8 on: August 24, 2020, 08:35:55 AM »
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  • It may seem difficult to persuade ourselves that those who ought to be protecting health instead wish to ensure the continuation of illnesses: such cynicism repulses – and rightly so – those who are strangers to the mentality that has been established in healthcare. And yet this is what is happening right before our eyes, and it involves not only the emergence of Covid and vaccines – in particular anti-influenza vaccines, which were widely distributed in 2019 right in those areas where Covid has had the highest number of victims [in 2020] – but all treatments and therapies, as well as childbirth and It may seem difficult to persuade ourselves that those who ought to be protecting health instead wish to ensure the continuation of illnesses: such cynicism repulses – and rightly so – those who are strangers to the mentality that has been established in healthcare. And yet this is what is happening right before our eyes, and it involves not only the emergence of Covid and vaccines – in particular anti-influenza vaccines, which were widely distributed in 2019 right in those areas where Covid has had the highest number of victims [in 2020] – but all treatments and therapies, as well as childbirth and care for the sick. Such cynicism, which is repugnant to the ethical code, sees in each of us a potential source of profit, while instead what should be seen in every patient is the face of the suffering Christ.”
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline Venantius0518

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #9 on: August 24, 2020, 08:39:22 AM »
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  • THIS is the hill to die on:

    Vaccination and damnation

    or

    Resistance, martyrdom, and salvation.

    No vaccine whatever the cost.

    God bless +Vigano!!!
    Bold words...

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #10 on: August 24, 2020, 08:42:07 AM »
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  • Bold words...
    Unless Vigano is wrong.
    But if he is right, what is the alternative?
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline Venantius0518

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #11 on: August 24, 2020, 08:46:22 AM »
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  • Unless Vigano is wrong.
    But if he is right, what is the alternative?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #12 on: August 24, 2020, 09:15:57 AM »
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  • Commentary:

    -A few months ago, we debated on this forum whether or not the abortive COVID19 vaccines would be permissible for Catholics to use.

    -We cited +Vigano as saying it was not morally possible.

    -The Menzingen shill appeared, obviously distraught that the SSPX should be exposed for permitting such a morally egregious action (i.e., The SSPX Warner, NY Academy Handbook states that when no religious exemption is permitted, then based on the non-authoritative and morally questionable 2005 Vatican study of the Pontifical Academy for Life (!) titled "moral reflections," Catholics may use such vaccines, despite their abortive origins).

    -The shill and others insisted I had not properly understood Vigano; that he could certainly not be presumed to be rejecting the 2005 non-magisterial study.

    Well, here you have it, folks:

    Vigano is saying for the second time, in equally unmistakable terms, that Catholics may never use such vaccines.

    Is it any wonder the SSPX is not championing Vigano?

    Vigano: "From a moral point of view, for every Catholic who intends to remain faithful to his or her Baptism, it is absolutely inadmissible to accept a vaccination that utilizes material coming from human fetuses in its process of production."

    If every Catholic rejected these vaccines, they would be forced to create some that do not use tissues from aborted babies.  Whereas the Catholic Church should be steering society toward God, this Novus Ordo abomination simply goes along.  "oh, well, what can you do?"  I'm absolutely certain that if V2 had not happened, Roe v. Wade could never have happened.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #13 on: August 24, 2020, 02:07:39 PM »
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  • If every Catholic rejected these vaccines, they would be forced to create some that do not use tissues from aborted babies.

    Surely, but if even among trads, the SSPX is telling everyone it’s ok to use them if there is not a non-abortive option available, it’s a bit much to count on modernist/clueless Catholics to take a stand.

    The only question now is, who is right: 
    ++Vigano or the SSPX?

    We already have the SSPX’s argument in the 2005 statement of the Pontifical Academy for Life.

    What is needed now is a critique of that document by ++Vigano.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Vigano on Rejecting Abortive Vaccines (Again)
    « Reply #14 on: August 24, 2020, 02:08:47 PM »
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  • WORDS OF VIGANO: From a moral point of view, for every Catholic who intends to remain faithful to his or her Baptism, it is absolutely inadmissible to accept a vaccination that utilizes material coming from human fetuses in its process of production.
    .
    Why? I've never seen any argument for this idea that makes any sense. I think this is a myth invented by the naturalistic "pro-life" movement.
    .
    While abortion is obviously a mortal sin, and any cooperation in aborting a child would be mortally sinful, getting a flu shot doesn't kill any children. I think it would be hard even to argue that a doctor who develops a drug using material from already-aborted children is doing anything wrong, since he did not contribute in any way to the crime of abortion that produced the material he is using. He is merely using something that was obtained as the result of other people's sin, and indeed using it in a way that is not wrong, but actually contributes to the common good. (I'm obviously leaving aside the general objections to vaccines here, which is another question; we are only talking about the idea of developing medicines in itself). It would obviously be wrong for the doctor to go out encouraging women to abort their children so he could have more fetal tissue to use for his experiments or whatever, but I don't think anyone is claiming anything like that. Nor can it be plausibly maintained that mothers choose to abort their children so that scientists will have more fetal tissue for experiments or to develop medicines.
    .
    If it makes no sense to say that a doctor who merely uses fetal tissue to develop medicines is cooperating in abortions, then it is far more absurd to say that anyone who walks in off the street into a Walgreens to get a flu shot is committing a mortal sin, since he has no involvement either in any abortion or in the research that was done to create the drug he is receiving.
    .
    The notion that anyone receiving a drug that had aborted baby tissue used in its production is somehow guilty of abortion is typical of the emotional non-reasoning that typifies protestants and Novus Ordo types who have no basis in Catholic moral theology. It makes about as much sense as saying you can't buy a candy bar at a gas station with a ten-dollar bill, because when the gas station deposits that bill into the local bank, the bank might put it into an ATM machine where someone will withdraw it and use it to buy a bag of cocaine from a street-corner dealer, and you would therefore be helping someone buy cocaine.


     

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