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Author Topic: I need discernment about this!  (Read 12827 times)

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Offline Deusvult

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I need discernment about this!
« on: February 13, 2025, 08:55:26 AM »
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    • Hey guys!

    I heard about the man Wim Hof and his advice for being healthy, including taking ice baths. He also talks about a breathing method to have better control of your body and your passions in general. I tried the breathing method and I was surprised by the very positive results on my concentration and my energy level throughout the day. In itself, it is something 100% natural. The problem is that Wim Hof seems to be a New Age man and so I am afraid that this breathing method could be a danger of some kind.

    In short, it consists of taking 30 deep breaths in a row and then holding your breath for 1 min - 1 min 30. We do this 3 or 4 times. You have to be lying down because it is a bit dizzying.

    Do you think there is any spiritual danger in doing this? Some say it deploys DMT in the brain. DMT in the brain is normally deployed before you die. Some people take DMT voluntarily (by smoking) to have intense psychedelic experiences. So I am confused. Thanks!

    You can watch here:





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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #1 on: February 13, 2025, 10:19:20 AM »
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    • I know about the ice baths and it probably does have a healthful benefit, but unless there is some esoteric underbelly to this guy or his practices I don't see a problem.
    If DMT is released naturally, just like endorphins might be released in an athlete,   why would that be bad? (unless the natural DMT causes you to sin when you normally wouldn't.)
    Would the release of natural DMT cause you to lose inhibitions or moral capacity like drugs or alcohol? Seems unlikely
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    Offline Deusvult

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #2 on: February 13, 2025, 10:35:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on February 13, 2025, 10:19:20 AM
    I know about the ice baths and it probably does have a healthful benefit, but unless there is some esoteric underbelly to this guy or his practices I don't see a problem.
    If DMT is released naturally, just like endorphins might be released in an athlete,  why would that be bad? (unless the natural DMT causes you to sin when you normally wouldn't.)
    Would the release of natural DMT cause you to lose inhibitions or moral capacity like drugs or alcohol? Seems unlikely
    The difference is that endorphin is not a psychedelic substance, unlike DMT which is. And it is known that psychedelics seem to have spiritual dangers. In relation to that, some people smoke DMT to have an out of body experience. We know that astral travel and that kind of thing are a danger. I don't want to compete with that danger. I just want the health benefits which for this practice, are indisputable.
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    Online Gray2023

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #3 on: February 13, 2025, 10:39:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: Deusvult on February 13, 2025, 10:35:02 AM
    The difference is that endorphin is not a psychedelic substance, unlike DMT which is. And it is known that psychedelics seem to have spiritual dangers. In relation to that, some people smoke DMT to have an out of body experience. We know that astral travel and that kind of thing are a danger. I don't want to compete with that danger. I just want the health benefits which for this practice, are indisputable.
    I would stick to the ice baths and not worry about the breathing.  Is there any Saint or Church history that talks about irregular breathing patterns and whether they are good or not?
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Deusvult

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #4 on: February 13, 2025, 11:02:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on February 13, 2025, 10:39:13 AM
    I would stick to the ice baths and not worry about the breathing.  Is there any Saint or Church history that talks about irregular breathing patterns and whether they are good or not?
    This subject is not theological but medical. The saints do not generally speak of medicine (except perhaps Hildegard). That is why they do not speak of breathing methods .This method of breathing is not to make one holier, but healthier. All this is in the domain of health. But sometimes being healthy helps you serve God better in the end. That is why I putted the topic in the Health and Nutrition section! 



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    Online Gray2023

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #5 on: February 13, 2025, 11:28:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Deusvult on February 13, 2025, 11:02:03 AM
    This subject is not theological but medical. The saints do not generally speak of medicine (except perhaps Hildegard). That is why they do not speak of breathing methods .This method of breathing is not to make one holier, but healthier. All this is in the domain of health. But sometimes being healthy helps you serve God better in the end. That is why I putted the topic in the Health and Nutrition section!
    Sounds reasonable to me.

    So the question lies with whether you would be influenced by Wim Hof's religion?  I do not think actions in themselves open you up to demons, what it does do is lower your inhibitions.

    Side note:  We can't separate everything from the theological, because our whole life is designed to move towards God.  If you find that this healthy stuff is making yourself healthy and helping you be more virtuous, then good.  If this healthy stuff is leading you toward vice, like vanity then it is bad.  I guess the key is moderation in all things that are not directly opposed by God.
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Deusvult

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #6 on: February 13, 2025, 12:07:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on February 13, 2025, 11:28:11 AM
    Sounds reasonable to me.

    So the question lies with whether you would be influenced by Wim Hof's religion?  I do not think actions in themselves open you up to demons, what it does do is lower your inhibitions.

    Side note:  We can't separate everything from the theological, because our whole life is designed to move towards God.  If you find that this healthy stuff is making yourself healthy and helping you be more virtuous, then good.  If this healthy stuff is leading you toward vice, like vanity then it is bad.  I guess the key is moderation in all things that are not directly opposed by God.
    I don't care about Wim Hof's religion, if he ever got one. I just seek for the health benefits, which help me being more active and less lazy in general. 
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    Online Gray2023

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #7 on: February 13, 2025, 12:27:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Deusvult on February 13, 2025, 12:07:24 PM
    I don't care about Wim Hof's religion, if he ever got one. I just seek for the health benefits, which help me being more active and less lazy in general.
    What are you trying discern then? It sounds like you found something for health that is working for you.  
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Deusvult

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #8 on: February 13, 2025, 12:41:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on February 13, 2025, 12:27:06 PM
    What are you trying discern then? It sounds like you found something for health that is working for you. 
    It's because I had heard that some pagan peoples did some kind of breathing to go into a trance and I was afraid that this was it.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #9 on: February 13, 2025, 02:42:01 PM »
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    • This doesn't really sound to me like a good idea. So you hyperventilate for a while, and then hold your breath for a very long time? And what exactly does this do to your brain? Hyperventilation can cause strange effects in the brain, I think including euphoria or similar mind-altering effects.

    Don't play games with your brain. And don't deprive your body of oxygen. :trollface:
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    Online Gray2023

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #10 on: February 13, 2025, 03:37:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on February 13, 2025, 02:42:01 PM
    This doesn't really sound to me like a good idea. So you hyperventilate for a while, and then hold your breath for a very long time? And what exactly does this do to your brain? Hyperventilation can cause strange effects in the brain, I think including euphoria or similar mind-altering effects.

    Don't play games with your brain. And don't deprive your body of oxygen. :trollface:
    Good point. I didn't think of that.
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    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline blue12

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #11 on: February 13, 2025, 06:37:15 PM »
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    • I didn't watch the video you posted but I read a large portion of a book called "Breath" by James Nestor. It deals with breathing properly, chewing our food, etc.In it he wrote the following which I found really interesting and wanted to share:
    "In 2001, researchers at the University of Pavia in Italy gathered two dozen subjects, covered them with sensors to measure blood flow, heart rate, and nervous system feedback, then had them recite a Buddhist mantra as well as the original Latin versions of the rosary, the Catholic prayer cycle... They were stunned to find that the average number of breaths per cycle was "almost exactly" identical, just a bit quicker than the pace of Hindu, Taoist, and Native American prayers:5.5 breaths per minute.
         But what was even more stunning was what breathing like this did to the subjects. Whenever they followed this slow breathing pattern, blood flow to the brain increased and the systems in the body entered a state of coherence, when functions of the heart, circulation, and nervous system are coordinated to peak efficiency. The moment the subjects returned to spontaneous breathing and talking, their hearts would beat a little more erratically and the integration of these systems would slowly fall apart...
         It turned out the most efficient breathing rhythm occurred when both the length of respirations and total breaths per minute were locked in to a spooky symmetry: 5.5-second inhales followed by 5.5 second exhales, which works out almost exactly to 5.5 breaths a minute. This was the same pattern of the rosary"
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #12 on: February 13, 2025, 08:38:23 PM »
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    • As long as you stay away from anything "spiritual", I'm convinced that there's much we don't know about science that various Eastern cultures have managed to retain aspects of at least.  Rockefeller polluted all of Western medical science to the point that it's a complete joke.
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    Offline Deusvult

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #13 on: February 14, 2025, 08:25:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on February 13, 2025, 02:42:01 PM
    This doesn't really sound to me like a good idea. So you hyperventilate for a while, and then hold your breath for a very long time? And what exactly does this do to your brain? Hyperventilation can cause strange effects in the brain, I think including euphoria or similar mind-altering effects.

    Don't play games with your brain. And don't deprive your body of oxygen. :trollface:
    What it actually does is to kind of « reset» your nervous system, which leads to be more relaxed and breath better after. It often happens that during the day we never take the time to breathe well with the diaphragm, and then our brain lacks oxygen, and this exercise gives back the oxygen to our brain that we have not given it because of our bad breathing, which is often due to the stress of daily life. This is the main reason for this practice. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: I need discernment about this!
    « Reply #14 on: February 14, 2025, 11:03:35 AM »
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    • In terms of the practical considerations, I looked into it briefly, and there are many skeptics.  Some point out that Hof's brother has the same natural ability to withstand cold, without ever having developed such techniques, much less having commercialized them ... and that some individuals have died attempting some aspects of his system.

    So I would caution extreme prudence here ... though another part of me realizes that the mainstream Western Rockefeller allopathic medicine demonizes and attacks anyone who has ideas that don't fit in with their extremely narrow and mechanistic view of health.  I believe a more holistic view of health is much more true and accurate, and until Rockefeller, such views pervailed even in the West.
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