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Author Topic: Ventilation Nightmare  (Read 2578 times)

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Offline josefamenendez

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Re: Ventilation Nightmare
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2022, 11:17:36 AM »
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    • Also have an Affidavit written and signed by a notary of what your expectations are for hospital care and what you specifically refuse. Send a copy to the hospital administration, legal department and have it placed on your chart. This would appear as a potential notice of intent of legal action if violated. This is a different action than a living will or DNR. Obviously this should be prepared before you get sick and you will need an family member or advocate to insure that it gets where it should.

    DO NOT sign any of  the hospitals pre-packaged DNR's - do not use their paperwork at all. The legal advantage would be theirs.

    As far as Admission consent to the hospital, read over carefully and cross out (and initial) things that you do not agree with- then sign. The general admission consent will include all treatments outside of surgery and blood transfusions (separate consents) and they might give you remdesivir while you are "out of it"  if not specified otherwise as it is a protocol med.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #16 on: January 03, 2022, 11:31:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on January 02, 2022, 11:27:40 AM
    I'm wondering why the issue of living wills ( aka "health care directive") has not been mentioned.

    In these docuмents, legally binding, and giving spouses power of attorney, your "end of life" instructions can be laid out.

    If someone had the following clause inserted in it, would it be binding upon hospital administration?

    "Under no circuмstances am I to be placed on a ventilator, until/unless ivermectin and all the following medications have been tried and found ineffective after running their time-allotted courses" (or some such verbiage).

    Last I heard, living wills were legally binding, and hospitals would be open to huge fines and lawsuits for violating them.

    Is it just that nobody has thought to include such instructions in their living will?

    Here's an article about living wills/health care directives: https://www.alllaw.com/articles/wills_and_trusts/article7.asp
    Great idea! It would be good to include a refusal to be given vaccines of any  type, as this has been experienced by people even prior to covid.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #17 on: January 03, 2022, 11:48:39 AM »
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    • Tricky stuff those living wills and directives.

    Especially in big cities there are multiple hospitals and you may be transported/triaged somewhere that does not have your records.

    Without a court order it is difficult to force a physician to give a certain med or perform a certain procedure. Some people die awaiting a favorable court action.

    Tricky stuff.
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    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #18 on: January 05, 2022, 02:08:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on January 03, 2022, 11:17:36 AM
    Also have an Affidavit written and signed by a notary of what your expectations are for hospital care and what you specifically refuse. Send a copy to the hospital administration, legal department and have it placed on your chart. This would appear as a potential notice of intent of legal action if violated. This is a different action than a living will or DNR. Obviously this should be prepared before you get sick and you will need an family member or advocate to insure that it gets where it should.

    DO NOT sign any of  the hospitals pre-packaged DNR's - do not use their paperwork at all. The legal advantage would be theirs.

    As far as Admission consent to the hospital, read over carefully and cross out (and initial) things that you do not agree with- then sign. The general admission consent will include all treatments outside of surgery and blood transfusions (separate consents) and they might give you remdesivir while you are "out of it"  if not specified otherwise as it is a protocol med.
    You make some good points, but unless a person actually KNOWS what all the terms mean, (and have a certain medical background or understanding), they will run into problems with a number of things.

    You know it, and I know it, but DNRs are different than POLST forms, as one example. But how many people would know what all a DNR entails and why it may actually be a good idea TO have one in some cases? How many people know, understand, have seen, have run/participated in a CODE situation? How many people understand that CPR is almost futile in all but a few cases unless the person gets immediate and subsequent help and ding, ding, ding, gets vented in the vast majority of cases? How many people know how damaging CPR actually is, even when properly done? (Ie, broken ribs, etc.)

    How many people understand what "Ordinary lifesaving care" VS. "Extraordinary lifesaving care" means in Catholic terms? (Ie. Ordinary food and water versus tube feeds, for example). This is an entirely separate issue for Catholics (and those of good will) apart from any forms! How many people understand how many different ways there are to administer food or fluids to a person? 

    In many cases a person may actually be better off just having an Enduring Power of Attorney person and not signing anything until each scenario presents itself. Then a patient (represented by the POA) isn't locked into any situation. Speaking from experience here. 

    At the end of the day though, each adult has to inform themselves about their own State (or Provincial) Health Laws in regards to POLST, especially, and go from there. THEY have to actually get hold of the physical forms and read and understand them and if they don't, they need to find a trustworthy medical person to explain them to them. You should be able to get hold of POLST forms for example from STATE websites or even going into a hospital or using an FOI request.

    *CAVEAT EMPTOR--You have to KNOW what your state's (or province's) automatic "default" is, too, for things like Organ donation. Some places are now automatic opt-in for such things, but as anyone with a healthcare background would tell you, the prime ages usually used are ages 2-72, and Yes, there are some tissues that Catholics can leave for donation in good conscience without worry if suitable (ie. corneas, eyes).

    Nothing written on any website here is a guarantee, hence my *DISCLAIMER to consult your own HEALTHCARE PROVIDER and YOUR OWN ATTORNEY.


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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #19 on: January 05, 2022, 02:24:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on January 02, 2022, 06:48:58 PM
    I "went into the ventilator" because I was in a coma from COVID. I had nothing to say about it.
    I had a 52 year old cousin in perfect health that looked like he was 32, he caught the flu 2 years before Covid19 existed, and died. He felt sick and went to an Urgent Care Center and they prescribed some meds. He continued to feel bad and so he was going back for another visit, when he died in the bathroom getting ready to go to the clinic. The whole event took like 10 days.

    What did you do to take care of the covid till you got to the point of going into a coma? How many days transpired between you feeling sick and going into a coma? I don't write here on CI to just tell people stories, but to help them. Without more details from you, what you wrote above helps no one. One has to have a plan before they get covid. At the time I posted the comment that you responded to, I had started this thread, they went together : No Alternative Plan to the Shot? - Health and Nutrition - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)  Standing by itself, as you posted it now, my comment is useless.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #20 on: January 05, 2022, 02:44:37 PM »
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    • Here's another thread I started (It is more than just this posting below): Free Prescription for Ivermectin - Health and Nutrition - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)


    Quote from: Last Tradhican on December 21, 2021, 03:01:43 PM

    Below is a real world experience of someone I know that contracted Corona Virus.  Observe the difference between what his family doctor prescribed “take a multivitamin”, and the FLCCC doctors prescriptions and the speed in which they were delivered. The FLCCC doctor Home - FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (covid19criticalcare.com)  was in another city and the pharmacy in the same city as the sick person and the prescriptions were delivered in 1:30 hours after he hung up with the doctor. The sick person had never taken any of the vaccines.

    On Monday, November 15th, the process went like this:
    10am – called my family doctor, the nurse said to just take a multivitamin and Zinc.
    11:00 - Scheduled my appointment with FLCCC for 1:10 PM
    1:10  - Had the scheduled appointment, lasted about 15 minutes and was told the medicine that would be prescribed which was Ivermectin, Z-Pack, and Prednisone, the pharmacist would be calling me to arrange delivery and answer questions
    2:45 - pharmacist called and was very helpful and went through all the meds, told me they would be delivered within 30 minutes
    3:15 - medicine arrived at my front door, I took the medicine when it arrived
    5:30 - started to feel much better and has been improving daily. That night I slept like a baby, the first time in 8 days!

    Total cost for the above doctor's video phone examination and prescriptions delivered to sick person's his door $260.

    It couldn't be any simpler!

    Everything goes together!

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    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #21 on: January 05, 2022, 02:50:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on January 05, 2022, 02:24:53 PM
    I had a 52 year old cousin in perfect health that looked like he was 32, he caught the flu 2 years before Covid19 existed, and died. He felt sick and went to an Urgent Care Center and they prescribed some meds. He continued to feel bad and so he was going back for another visit, when he died in the bathroom getting ready to go to the clinic. The whole event took like 10 days.

    What did you do to take care of the covid till you got to the point of going into a coma? How many days transpired between you feeling sick and going into a coma? I don't write here on CI to just tell people stories, but to help them. Without more details from you, what you wrote above helps no one. One has to have a plan before they get covid. At the time I posted the comment that you responded to, I had started this thread, they went together : No Alternative Plan to the Shot? - Health and Nutrition - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)  Standing by itself, as you posted it now, my comment is useless.
    I could write personal experiences from our own situation with all the details you could want, but I refuse to do so. Why? There are too many people here that would jump on the wrong bandwagon and start shouting "Covid disinformation! Covid victims!" Or however it was phrased to me (in a freaking prayer request no less).

    So I am not going to be baited by such persons or give them or others the satisfaction of finding out the harsh reality of what Covid starts out as, and how quickly it can turn. Let God deal with all the deniers.

    Considering how you don't seem to believe Mark has any expertise on the MJ issue and how you went after him, I would not blame him one iota if he didn't answer your post here. Mark's a grown man and can answer for himself, but if you asked me after all that, I would say to buzz off. It's very clear Mark has a professional career that involves research and peer-reviews, and anyone with a medical background or actually reading what words he wrote could see what angle he is coming from.

    If you didn't think his references were valid then, why do you now care what got him to the point of being on a ventilator? He has already told you and explained himself elsewhere. Just search his many posts--it's all there.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #22 on: January 05, 2022, 04:14:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anne Evergreen on January 05, 2022, 02:50:28 PM
    I could write personal experiences from our own situation with all the details you could want, but I refuse to do so. Why? There are too many people here that would jump on the wrong bandwagon and start shouting "Covid disinformation! Covid victims!" Or however it was phrased to me (in a freaking prayer request no less).

    So I am not going to be baited by such persons or give them or others the satisfaction of finding out the harsh reality of what Covid starts out as, and how quickly it can turn. Let God deal with all the deniers.
    I can understand that, women do not like any "conflicts", but I'll tell you something, if you have something to say that can help other people, you should not care one iota about opinions. Everybody here is just words on a screen. I've been here 10 years, it's been a learning experience. Conflict and mistakes are excellent learning tools to improve oneself, but only for those people that change when they learn better.

    In the book Spiritual Combat (written in like 1600) it teaches one to actually seek out situations that provoke one's shortcomings, like say anger, so that way they can practice sparing against it and learn to overcome it. (Only regarding sins of the flesh does it say to not confront it, but to always run away!)
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #23 on: January 05, 2022, 05:18:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anne Evergreen on January 05, 2022, 02:08:28 PM
    …tube feeds, for example…

    Yep. From the PEG tube I have a divot on my abdominal wall bigger than any divot I ever made on the golf course. [yuck]
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #24 on: January 05, 2022, 05:30:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on January 05, 2022, 02:24:53 PM
    …What did you do to take care of the covid till you got to the point of going into a coma?…

    Because the lockdown so badly hurt us financially, I took a second job part-time. I left one job feeling fine and started the drive to the second job. About ½ hour into the drive I started to feel profoundly weak and rapidly worsened, so much so that I said to myself, "I better turn around and go home because I can't safely drive the rest of the distance."

    That's the last thing I remember until I woke up quadriplegic on a ventilator 2 months later.

    My family says I made it home then they got me to the hospital.

    As I type this I am in arm's reach of the huge ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine bottles I had obtained for the whole family. In retrospect, I should have told my family in advance when and how to administer those meds. They all got sick. My wife was hospitalized on oxygen for a week. All our children were knocked down for a month. We were hit hard. All because I had not passed on what I knew about early treatment. I figured I'd be the one helping others, not expecting to be the first one hit or so quickly incapacitated.

    That's the take home message: Tell your family what to do and when it is necessary.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #25 on: January 05, 2022, 06:02:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anne Evergreen on January 05, 2022, 02:50:28 PM
    …Considering how you don't seem to believe Mark has any expertise on the MJ issue and how you went after him, I would not blame him one iota if he didn't answer your post here.…
    Thank you. That is very thoughtful.

    In this case, Tradhican has a point, so I answered him, so others could learn from my experience.

    I should have explained to my wife and children how to calculate and administer the proper doses. That mistake had profound consequences.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #26 on: January 05, 2022, 06:05:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on January 05, 2022, 04:14:32 PM
    …Everybody here is just words on a screen.…

    No. We are people.

    What you know of us is "words on a screen," but we are people.

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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #27 on: January 05, 2022, 06:08:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on January 05, 2022, 06:05:10 PM
    No. We are people.

    What you know of us is "words on a screen," but we are people.

    Where/how did you get big bottles of HCQ and ivermectin?  The ones I obtain from pushhealth.com are single courses, at $69/online “consultation” plus the cost of the ivermectin.

    pm me if necessary.  From there, I can give you my email.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #28 on: January 05, 2022, 06:16:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on January 05, 2022, 06:05:10 PM
    No. We are people.

    What you know of us as is "words on a screen," but we are people.
    True.

    Still it does not change what I wrote, words on a screen can't hurt us.

    If the two people in the exchange were face to face, they likely would not get upset and misunderstand things like people do with just one word misunderstood.  (On the other hand, they might not even talk to each other, like if one could see on Skype the person he is debating with is a 28 year old living in his parents basement and typing in his underwear.) and I am not talking about you, I have been here like 10 years.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Ventilation Nightmare
    « Reply #29 on: January 05, 2022, 06:28:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on January 05, 2022, 06:16:18 PM
    (On the other hand, they might not even talk to each other, like if one could see on Skype the person he is debating with is a 28 year old living in his parents basement and typing in his underwear.) 
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