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Author Topic: Veganism acceptable for Catholics?  (Read 9928 times)

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Offline Jaynek

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Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2018, 02:10:26 PM »
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  • Their definition is very skillfully worded.  At this point in time, I do not believe that vegans are enemies of the gospel.  One, this is a philosophy, which is a creature of culture/society, and in this case rightfully so.  As culture/society changes(for the better), philosophy does as well.  Their wording/definition is open to this interpretation as well, in a favorable light.  They make it a point to emphasize exploitation and cruelty.  Exploitation is associated with profit and selfishness.  And, genesis does not advocate for either of those, especially if cruel.  The genesis argument is a poor one against veganism.  
    Do you actually know any philosophical vegans?  In my experience, these are people who value animals over humans, showing concern for animal rights while accepting abortion.

    A philosophy that actually opposes exploitation and cruelty would focus on the reform of farming practices.  Such do exist, for example, the biodynamic agriculture and permaculture movements.  Veganism is defining any use of animals for food, cruel or not, as exploitation.  This view is in opposition to Genesis.

    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #16 on: May 22, 2018, 02:14:48 PM »
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  • Veganism, as a philosophy, is not compatible with Catholicism.  It is evil and closely linked to other evils promoted by leftists.

    You are SO off base here.
    There are many reasons people choose not to eat meat.  From what I have experienced, the majority of vegans eat this way due to the grossness of our meat.  Look at the videos!  You are eating that!  GROSS.
    There are vegans who eat vegan for medical reasons, and I can see where this may be correct.

    The few who eat vegan to oppose the Bible are VERY few.


    Offline Fanny

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    Re: what we eat matters
    « Reply #17 on: May 22, 2018, 02:21:24 PM »
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  •  Refraining from meat for health reasons is medically wrong.

    Are you a doctor? (Western OR eastern?)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #18 on: May 22, 2018, 02:23:42 PM »
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  • Aren't there some Franciscans or maybe other Catholic orders who have refrained from eating meat? It seems like I've read that somewhere. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #19 on: May 22, 2018, 02:26:20 PM »
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  • You are SO off base here.
    There are many reasons people choose not to eat meat.  From what I have experienced, the majority of vegans eat this way due to the grossness of our meat.  Look at the videos!  You are eating that!  GROSS.
    There are vegans who eat vegan for medical reasons, and I can see where this may be correct.

    The few who eat vegan yo oppose the Bible are VERY few.
    I said "Veganism, as a philosophy, is not compatible with Catholicism."  This sentence in no way implies that philosophical veganism is the only reason people have for abstaining from meat.  Another (quite reasonable) reason might be an inability to obtain healthy or ethically raised meat.  

    Properly raised meat is not unhealthy.  Including it in one's diet is better than a meat-free diet.

    I used to live on an organic farm and was very involved in the alternative agriculture movement.  I encountered many philosophical vegans in this setting.  I cannot recall even one who had beliefs that were compatible with Catholicism.


    Offline PG

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #20 on: May 22, 2018, 02:28:00 PM »
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  • Aren't there some Franciscans or maybe other Catholic orders who have refrained from eating meat? It seems like I've read that somewhere.
    I believe the minim order does.  And, I think the founders name was Francis.  

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #21 on: May 22, 2018, 02:31:46 PM »
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  • I believe the minim order does.  And, I think the founders name was Francis.  

    That makes sense. I think there was another order or group that that historically refrained from meat, but I can't remember the name just now.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #22 on: May 22, 2018, 02:36:28 PM »
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  • Tomas of Celano, biographer of St. Francis tells this story:

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    “Francis observed the birthday of the child Jesus with inexpressible eagerness over all other feasts, saying, ‘It is the feast of feasts, on which God, having become a tiny infant, clung to human breasts.’ When the question rose about eating meat that day, since Christmas was a Friday, he [Francis] replied to Brother Morico, ‘You sin, brother, calling the day on which the child is born to us a day of fast. It is my wish that even the walls should eat meat on such a day; and if they cannot, they should be smeared with meat on the outside.’”

    The medieval heretical sect, the Cathars, totally abstained from meat.


    Offline jen51

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #23 on: May 22, 2018, 02:53:11 PM »
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  • Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #24 on: May 22, 2018, 03:12:47 PM »
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  • I believe the minim order does.  And, I think the founders name was Francis.  

    I looked up the Minim order, and the order was approved in 1506 by Pope Julius ll. The rule was approved, which included veganism, except in case of grave illness, or by order of a physician. The Order was founded by St. Francis of Paola. He seemed like a good and saintly man.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minim_(religious_order)

    BTW, I'm not a vegetarian or vegan.

    Evidently, according to the Wiki article, the minims also brewed beer at one time. Paulaner beer takes its name from St. Francis of Paola.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #25 on: May 22, 2018, 03:36:52 PM »
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  • Here is an article explaining why we should be skeptical of claims that abstaining from animal products is healthier:  https://empoweredsustenance.com/is-vegan-healthy/

    Reasons include:
    A vegan diet never sustained any traditional culture.
    Vegan diets do not provide fat-soluble vitamins A and D.
    Vegan diets often rely heavily on soy.
    Vegan diets do not provide vitamin K2.
    Animal products are a nonnegotiable, essential part of healing leaky gut to address autoimmunity.
    Vegan diets are deficient in vitamin B12 and iron.

    While there are some health benefits associated with a plant-based diet, they seem to be primarily due to the increased amount of fruits and vegetables in the diet.  A meat eater who increased consumption of fruits and especially vegetables would probably experience similar benefits.

    There are serious problems with conventionally raised meat.  Going vegan is nether the best nor only solution for this.


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #26 on: May 22, 2018, 03:43:41 PM »
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  • The Wikipedia article on the Minim order explains their reason for abstaining from meat:

    Quote
    In addition to the standard three religious vows of chastity, poverty and obedience, the Rule contains the vow of "a Lenten way of life" (Latinvita quadragesimalis), which is considered to be the distinctive feature of the Minims.[5] This vow is for perpetual abstinence from all meat and dairy productsveganism, except in case of grave illness and by order of a physician. Because of asceticism, The Order is also discalced in character and there are other acts of humility.
    Note that there is no suggestion that there is anything wrong with eating meat.  It was a spiritual discipline of adopting Lenten practices throughout the year.  

    This is different from philosophical vegans who believe it is wrong to take animal lives.  It is also different from those who avoid meat believing it to be unhealthy.

    Offline PG

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #27 on: May 22, 2018, 03:51:00 PM »
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  • The problem is artificial insemination.  Get that right, and the whole thing is set aright.  

    https://biblereasons.com/bestiality/

    Offline PG

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #28 on: May 22, 2018, 04:03:10 PM »
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  • I find veganism interesting and am sympathetic towards it. I can understand not wanting to promote cruelty towards animals and also the environmental concerns. And also eating simpler foods for spiritual reasons though I don't think most vegans are vegans for this reason. I mean many monks in the past would not eat much meat. Sometimes I think my ideal diet would be to eat nothing but potatoes, but I don't think that would be healthy so I have never tried it. But I do try to avoid eating a lot of meat.
    If you like potatoes, I recommend you make sure you buy organic with that food.  Non organic potatoes are almost always sterile.  They do not produce flowers/fruit and cannot reproduce themselves.  Organic potatoes will grow flowers and can therefore reproduce themselves.  All farmed potatoes (organic or not) are clones.  The only place I found selling true potato seeds online is ukraine, which means they may be the only place using them.  If the irish were growing their potatoes from true seed rather than cloning, it is much more likely the potatoes would not have failed.  Just like with human degrees of consanguinity, plants need genetic diversity.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?
    « Reply #29 on: May 22, 2018, 05:28:03 PM »
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  • The problem is artificial insemination.  Get that right, and the whole thing is set aright.  

    https://biblereasons.com/bestiality/
    This link has no relevance whatever to veganism.
    You seem to have a problem with the meaning and usage of words,  eg the use of the word torture and exploitation cannot be applied to animals.

    .
    Bestiality is cross-species sɛҳuąƖ activity between human and non-human animals.

    Torture, the infliction of severe physical or mental pain or suffering for a purpose, such as extracting information, coercing a confession, or inflicting punishment.
    .
    Your obsession with what you eat seems to me to be disordered and unCatholic.

    And on the next day, whilst they were going on their journey, and drawing nigh to the city, Peter went up to the higher parts of the house to pray, about the sixth hour.[10] And being hungry, he was desirous to taste somewhat. And as they were preparing, there came upon him an ecstasy of mind.
    [11] And he saw the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as it were a great linen sheet let down by the four corners from heaven to the earth: [12]Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts, and creeping things of the earth, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him: Arise, Peter; kill and eat. [14]But Peter said: Far be it from me; for I never did eat any thing that is common and unclean. [15] And the voice spoke to him again the second time: That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common.
    [16] And this was done thrice; and presently the vessel was taken up into heaven.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024