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Offline wallflower

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Trusting God
« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2010, 12:17:38 PM »
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  • I am still curious about where you got that article and that interpretation of original sin and its consequences.

    Offline JoanScholastica

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    « Reply #61 on: August 16, 2010, 03:12:21 AM »
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  • Quote from: treadingwater
    No there is no shot to cure mental retardation.


    Is that so? With all the scientific inventions nowadays, I wonder why medical scientists can't provide one yet.


    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #62 on: August 16, 2010, 12:39:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: treadingwater
    I could easily hire a midwife but why would I hire someone to create panic?  If you look hard enough you can always find something to worry about.  What good are we as patients if we do not provide them with an opportunity to use their skills.



    Have you gotten this impression from an actual midwife? A fundamental objective in midwifery today is to avoid interference with the natural birthing process. If you really know a midwife who goes out of her way to "create panic", then she's very poor at what she does and you should look again.

    I've heard this complaint numerous times of doctors, but a midwife's "value" is in being there when needed and being out of the way when not.

    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #63 on: August 16, 2010, 01:48:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: JoanScholastica
    Quote from: treadingwater
    No there is no shot to cure mental retardation.


    Is that so? With all the scientific inventions nowadays, I wonder why medical scientists can't provide one yet.


    as a disability examiner, let me take a shot at it-irreversible brain damage!!!

    Some things can be learned, but if there is neuro, chemical death to brain, likely, no reversal, shy of course, of a miracle!

    said MR person should be loved, supported, corrrected when need be an helped in any way, including job training,etc...
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline treadingwater

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    « Reply #64 on: August 16, 2010, 02:36:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici

    Have you gotten this impression from an actual midwife? A fundamental objective in midwifery today is to avoid interference with the natural birthing process. If you really know a midwife who goes out of her way to "create panic", then she's very poor at what she does and you should look again.

    I've heard this complaint numerous times of doctors, but a midwife's "value" is in being there when needed and being out of the way when not.


    At this point in my life no matter who I see I am labeled high risk.  I am 30, (to old), more than 4 children (to many babies), previous c-section, and I have had numerous so called could be disasters, breech, polyhydramnios, 2 vessel cord.  Yes my last midwife was hands off during my delivery but they have to obey the laws of our state if any thing abnormal comes up during pregnancy, which of course it will, see list, they will not deliver you at home. In previous pregnancies I have put more time and energy into reassuring those "caring for me"  that I could deliver this baby safely I had very little left for myself.  This pregnancy has been peaceful and stress free, I would have done it with my fifth baby but it took my husband longer to accept the safety in birth.


    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #65 on: August 16, 2010, 04:14:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: treadingwater
    Quote from: MaterDominici

    Have you gotten this impression from an actual midwife? A fundamental objective in midwifery today is to avoid interference with the natural birthing process. If you really know a midwife who goes out of her way to "create panic", then she's very poor at what she does and you should look again.

    I've heard this complaint numerous times of doctors, but a midwife's "value" is in being there when needed and being out of the way when not.


    At this point in my life no matter who I see I am labeled high risk.  I am 30, (to old), more than 4 children (to many babies), previous c-section, and I have had numerous so called could be disasters, breech, polyhydramnios, 2 vessel cord.  Yes my last midwife was hands off during my delivery but they have to obey the laws of our state if any thing abnormal comes up during pregnancy, which of course it will, see list, they will not deliver you at home. In previous pregnancies I have put more time and energy into reassuring those "caring for me"  that I could deliver this baby safely I had very little left for myself.  This pregnancy has been peaceful and stress free, I would have done it with my fifth baby but it took my husband longer to accept the safety in birth.


    I do understand what you mean... with my last, at about 38 1/2 weeks, my blood pressure was measuring high. With a "normal" patient, the midwife would have suggested some strong remedies to encourage labor, but with 2 prev c-sec, I wasn't "normal". She was forced to refer me to a doctor. The doctor made me feel  :really-mad2: with all of her scare tactics which I certainly didn't need. Fortunately for me, my blood pressure began reading normal again and stayed that way for the last 2 weeks.

    But again, this certainly isn't an example of something you can't diagnose and take care of yourself -- refering yourself to a doctor if necessary.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #66 on: August 18, 2010, 07:53:30 PM »
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  • After all of her other babies, Treading Water probably has a good sense of what to do, and how to do it.

    I have known several women who did home births.  FWIW their kids are all super-smart.  They all LOVED giving birth at home; they were well attuned to their bodies and so forth.

    You just need to have your little birthing nest all good to go, something for suction or to deliver oxygen just in case.  And some good wine they say.

    Offline Cheryl

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    « Reply #67 on: August 18, 2010, 09:26:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     As a one who has no experience or information, I don't presume to challenge or question any link or information posted here. Nor I can distinguish between true science and tricks of some doctors. So it is just a question:
      Is it true that there is a certain form of defect in babies, which can be diagnosed only by a blood test, and that they can prevent a subsequent mental retardation if they give an injection to the newborn in the first two hours after birth?
      I wonder if it is true, and if true how much is the possibilty? If it is 0.0000001% then it doesn't worth attention, if 2% then yes.


    I don't know if Spouse means injection, but I keep wondering if she isn't talking about an RH negative mother?


    Offline treadingwater

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    « Reply #68 on: August 25, 2010, 05:30:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    After all of her other babies, Treading Water probably has a good sense of what to do, and how to do it.

    I have known several women who did home births.  FWIW their kids are all super-smart.  They all LOVED giving birth at home; they were well attuned to their bodies and so forth.

    You just need to have your little birthing nest all good to go, something for suction or to deliver oxygen just in case.  And some good wine they say.


    Thanks Elizabeth, I second the wine better than an epidural.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #69 on: September 03, 2010, 11:57:41 PM »
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  • I thought about this thread as I read this, so I thought I'd share... this is a home birth story with 2 midwives + hubby (& kids?) present. I don't know what percentage of women experience hemmorage after birth, but I can't imagine her having gone through these things with just her and hubby.

    OTOH, do you suppose the herbs the midwives gave her late in labor compounded the problem?

    Quote
    Bringing you here - Part II

    Just as I anticipated, contractions started coming regularly about an hour after my water broke. It felt just like your sister Allison's birth, with one really strong wave followed by one not so strong (her water was broken for me and labor started within an hour). Your Dad stayed with me the whole time, rubbing my back, talking to me - wanting me to treasure this last labor and birth. His presence meant so much to me this time. Everytime he left the room, my contractions would lighten up and when he was holding my hand they felt like we were making good progress. The birth ball was the most comfortable place to be, although I knew I wanted to try for another water birth. So after a few hours of bouncing on the ball and relaxing through the contractions with my hypnobirthing, we called the midwives to say I was starting to get uncomfortable and wanted to get into the tub. Your Dad ran the tub for me, but then I just wanted to stay on the birthing ball. Amber (one of our midwives) arrived quickly (she's been present for my last three births) and checked on your heartbeat. It was much lower than our last appointment and I could tell that you were moving much lower. Hurray - we were making progress!


    I finally decided to try the water and it felt so good to get in the tub. I moved around, trying to get in a good position to help you move down. The hypnobirthing cd played in the background and I giggled every time it said " you are a beautiful woman"..because your Dad was right by my side listening with me. The midwives left us to labor on our own, only coming in to check periodically on your heart beat - which stayed strong throughout labor. I'm not sure how much time had passed at this point, but it finally felt really good to bear down a little with each contraction so I knew it was close or I was almost dilated fully. Amber checked me per my request and I was at a 9 with a lip...this is where I always get before asking her to check! She tried to hold the lip back so I could push through it, but my contractions were too far apart to hold down to keep you from slipping back upwards. You would just rise back up between them. So Joani (my other wonderful midwife), gave me some herbs to pick up the pace. It worked, but I just couldn't position myself right in the tub and so I wanted to get out thinking if I was more vertical, then gravity might help me.


    As soon as I got out of the tub, the herbs kicked in and I could hardly move through the contractions. I lost all my focus from the hypnobirthing and couldn't get it back as hard as I tried. With every contraction I just fell to my knees in pain and I couldn't get back on top of them. The hypnobirthing was out the window at this point. I made it to the side of my bed and just leaned over the mattress with each contraction, pushing with each one as my body took over. My mind said, no more, make it stop...and please just call the hospital to arrange for a c-section..and I'm too old for this!


    But it didn't stop and my encouraging team of Amber, Joani and your Dad said I could do it....I didn't believe them at the time. The fact that you were probably very big, likely bigger than your sister Abbey (10.3lbs) was holding me back and I just couldn't seem to let go. Joani pushed on the side of my hips with each contraction and that seemed to help me make progress a little. Finally, Amber suggested that I lay down on the bed, flat on my back...I thought she must be out of her mind to suggest that, but I was willing to try anything to make the hurting stop. Sure enough, with the help of everyone (literally), your Dad on one leg, Joani on the other and Amber coaxing from within, your head was visible. Your Dad said you had lots of hair! I pushed with all my might and finally felt the ring of fire...yay! We were almost there. They asked me to stop pushing so I could stretch and it was so hard not to push. They said, your head would slide out by itself if I just stopped pushing so I did and it did. The shoulders were a little tricky, but nothing like how Abbey was stuck.


    Baby Boy, you entered the world at 2:26pm and were put on my chest. All blue and gray, you took a while to take your first breath as I rubbed your back and talked to you - welcoming you into the world and our family. Finally, that precious moment arrived and you breathed in life, let out the tiniest of a cry and started to pink up. What a happy moment and I was so relieved that it was finally over - or so I hoped.

    Bringing you here - Part III

    Before I finish our story, I want you to know a little bit about how I view pregnancy and birth. Being pregnant is an amazing, miraculous event and something I will cherish the rest of my life. I view birth as a normal process, not an illness and thus I have chosen to have midwives as part of my birthing team and to have my baby at home. There is nothing more wonderful than being at home during labor and being tucked into my own bed after birth with my new baby. The whole family gets to be a part of the process and to bond with the baby shortly after birth.

    My big, beautiful baby boy, you were finally born! You were purple and blue and took a little long to take that first breath. But when you did, I felt my body relax completely.
    Unfortunately, it didn't end there with a beautiful birth. You still didn't even have a name yet. As you waited to take that first breath, I started to hemmorage. I felt the gushes come one right after the other as Amber had me push the placenta out quickly as they clamped the cord. I could feel the blood gushing from my body in spurts and felt my midwife jump into action. I could hear the urgency in her voice as they shot me with pitocin several times - 7 times I think - and something else (methrogen?) a few times, plus the continual massage of my uterus (which was so painful! - it should be called torture instead of a massage). We did what was neccessary.

    The bleeding was under control finally, but we decided to call the EMTs to come start an IV to get fluids back into me quickly. It was probably a good thing that I was flat on my back during the birth because I would have passed out from the blood loss if I had to be moved (like I did with Abbey's birth). They estimated I lost about 6 pints of blood - oh why, did this keep happening to me?


    We eventually declined the hospital transport from the EMTs as I had stablized and the bleeding was under control. I was able to nurse you, our new baby boy and hold you while I ate some food. But I was pretty weak and worn out and it was hard to position you. Then the midwives took you to look you over and get your measurements. Such a big boy - all of 10 lbs, 10 oz and 22 3/4 inches long! What a big boy! The biggest baby yet our midwives have delivered (it used to be Abbey - but you beat her...we didn't need to break a record you know?!) Your sisters all got to look at you and hold you after that while I tried to rest.
    Our midwives finally were able to leave around 5pm and we snuggled in bed with our sweet new baby. You had the cutest little fuzzy newborn ears but you were also quite bruised from the birth. What a day for the both of us!


    It wasn't over yet..... by 8pm, I could tell my bleeding was starting to pick back up some, not bad, but definitely increasing so we called the midwife, Amber, to come back. I was getting nervous about making it through the night and I also had to go pee, but just couldn't seem to do it in my bed on a pad or in a bed pan which they would have preferred I do. Talk about a mental thing! When she arrived, Amber and your Dad decided to carry me to the bathroom so I could go. I was scared to get up, but I had to go bad and it was starting to hurt! Luckily, I was able to go easily once on the potty, but then I started to feel really bad and I told Amber so. The next thing I knew, I was in bed again waking up. I had passed out again and I just started crying. I promised Jeff I would do everything not to have this happen again...and then it did. I just wanted to get up and take care of my baby, but I couldn't.


    The EMTs were called back as I was waking up and I could hear your Dad with them on the phone. I could see the panic in his face and hear it in his voice as well as Amber's. I had passed a huge clot when they picked me up too...it may have been leftover placenta. The EMTs arrived again as did my Mom. It was time to go to the hospital so the nurses could take care of me the rest of the night. The girls were crying and scared for their Mom and I was crying too.
    We were blessed with strong and kind EMTs who treated us with the best care. As they took me out, I could see one of them kneeling in the hallway with my girls. He came out later to the ambulance to tell me that the girls were upset, but he thought he was able to calm them down. He said, everything would be okay.


    As I layed in the ambulance surrounded by about 5 big EMTs, I told them they needed to tell me their names since my baby didn't have a name yet. The one who had talked to the girls, shouted out "Brett!". A couple of others told me their names too and some of their sons names.
    Once at the hospital, we were finally settled into our room by 3am. Our emergency room visit was scary and long, filled with a dr who didn't want to listen to us about the care I needed. I felt very violated by him and sad that we had to be there. So much for the rest we had hoped for. The nurses kept coming in and out all night long. I just wanted to go home by the morning so I could sleep at this point. Your Dad stayed with me so that you could stay as well.


    Things had calmed down by the morning and we had a better doctor seeing us but they wanted to keep us there another night. The IV of pitocin was still going, the methrogen pills, the pain pills, the vitamins, the stool softener...I was so tired of it. My bleeding was all but over and still they kept the drugs flowing and the catheter inserted even though I could walk down the hall. I had to prove myself before they would do anything. So walked I did - even in the middle of the night the nurse came to get me to take a walk down the hall to see if I could do it without passing out. I would do anything to go home, so I walked.



    Another night of being woken up by different nurses, one to give me meds, one to take my stats, one to take my blood (like I hadn't lost enough!). I had to educate them on co-sleeping and explain myself over and over (like a mother of 6 didn't know what to do with a new baby). I was in tears the next morning from exhaustion. All I wanted to do was nurse my new baby and that is all you wanted to do. I could hear your swallowing and knew that you would be a nursing champ.


    After two nights, we were finally released and went home as fast as we could. They tried to shower us with sample bags of formula and we left them right there in the room. I walked out with my baby and we headed for home where our beautiful girls were waiting for us. My cousin had come down from Dallas to help with the girls and so she and my Mom were also there. They all greeted us with welcome home signs and a delicious meal - I was so hungry - the hospital food was just awful. We were finally tucked into our own bed at home again and I layed you on my chest as we snuggled in together.


    Each birth is different and a treasure, so it happened the way it was supposed to happen and in the end we had you, our sweet baby boy. We were so happy that you were finally here!

    Offline treadingwater

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    « Reply #70 on: September 04, 2010, 05:42:35 PM »
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  • Tragedies certainly occur during birth  and this could have been one of them.

    This story leaves me with many questions.

    Is this a healthy woman?
    Why are her babies big? gestational diabetes? gains to much weight during pregnancy?
    What herbs did they give her? and why?
    Does she have a history of post-partum hemmorage?


    I read through this story many times ( I enjoy reading birth stories) several things struck me as problematic.  The use of herbs late in labor when there wasn't distress or an actual need.  It sounds like baby wasn't descending properly possible shoulder dystocia? He was obviously very stuck and the use of the herbs made labor unmanageable for her.  She lost her focus and fear set in causing her to panic.  

    I am not advocate for hypnobirthing putting all your focus into not feeling, trying to disappear from your labor.  Dosen't seem logical to me, when you can't hide from the contractions then what, your anxiety heightens.

    I also DO NOT LIKE when the last bit cervical lip is pushed back its unpleasant, distracting, and attempts to rush the process.

    The writer never states what happened why the hemmorage? Did the midwives pull on the umbilical cord causing it to detach early causing the hemmorage?


    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #71 on: September 05, 2010, 08:17:11 PM »
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  • I don't really know the person in the story, but I have met her once and she has some activity on her personal blog, so I can answer a couple of your questions just to flesh out the scenario a bit...

    She seems to be a healthy woman ... tall and slender. She's of the baby wearing, cloth diapering, homeschooling, etc sort and I know they aren't opposed to visits to the local farms for fresh produce and whatnot.

    I was wondering about why her babies are big myself (being prone to that in this family as well with kiddos at 8,15; 9,3; and 9,15). She mentioned on her blog that she stayed away from any/all sweets throughout this pregnanacy until the last week when they went out for cupcakes. This big boy was also born 3 days before his due date ... good thing he came early! ; )

    I think she mentioned in this story that she experienced hemmorage with her 5th birth as well. I'll have to go backward on her blog and see if I can find that story as I only met her about a year ago.

    I prefer to find out that such things are at least somewhat avoidable complications. : )

    Offline treadingwater

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    « Reply #72 on: September 06, 2010, 07:02:17 PM »
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  • homemade cartoons about "medical" childbirth, funny or sad, not sure but somewhat amusing.

    Emergency c-section  http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7000271/
    Epidural risks    http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7019631/

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    « Reply #73 on: September 12, 2010, 04:31:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: Belloc
    Quote from: JoanScholastica
    Quote from: treadingwater
    No there is no shot to cure mental retardation.


    Is that so? With all the scientific inventions nowadays, I wonder why medical scientists can't provide one yet.


    as a disability examiner, let me take a shot at it-irreversible brain damage!!!

    Some things can be learned, but if there is neuro, chemical death to brain, likely, no reversal, shy of course, of a miracle!

    said MR person should be loved, supported, corrrected when need be an helped in any way, including job training,etc...


    Sometimes a newborn has something too much or too little in his blood that if left unnoticed will cause retardation. For example not having phenile alanin causes phenile ketonory. It can be migitated or prevented if the newborn undergose a test and then is given speacial milks.
      Still I wonder whether it is true science....

    Offline treadingwater

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    « Reply #74 on: February 16, 2011, 12:04:19 PM »
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  • My son was born at home into his fathers hands at 7:05 pm Saturday February 12.  Hes a healthy 9lb 4oz and 21 inches.
    It was amazing to share the simplicity and wonder of birth with my family.
    We are truly thankful for all the blessings God has given us.