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Author Topic: Trusting God  (Read 14087 times)

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Offline MaterDominici

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Trusting God
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2010, 07:50:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: treadingwater
    Women left alone in labor become completely in tune to their bodies, present in the moment.   The presence of a birthing attendant deprives you of your focus instead of listening to your body your listening to their cues.


    Would you agree that this is not the case with every woman? A woman who hasn't labored before would likely feel more comfortable with an assistant as she would be more free to labor without worry that something she was unable to handle might occur? The presence of an assistant can deprive you of focus or aid you in keeping your focus depending on the individual (and the assistant).
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline treadingwater

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    « Reply #31 on: July 03, 2010, 08:18:06 PM »
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  • Absolutely, if you fear being alone then your not ready.  Fear leads to panic and no one can make rational decisions in that state.

    I know women who gave birth to all their children alone.  Could I have done it with my first, I don't know, if I had properly educated and prepared myself maybe.  
    But at the time I didn't know any other way than following an obstetricians lead.  Its in their best interest if your ignorant to the process and willing to follow them blindly.  That's partly my point as Catholic mothers we need to educate ourselves on childbirth and caring for our reproductive health.  We can't make informed decisions if we are not completely informed.


    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #32 on: July 04, 2010, 12:11:50 PM »
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  • Yeah, I know the going into your body and staying aware of it while you are in labor.   But you won't miss your cue.  I would just get very short and sharp with those who interrupted me and they would leave me alone.  I can see why you don't want the interruptions.

    I can't figure out what you want of us, TreadingWater.  If it is God's blessing, we can't help you.  You'll have to get that direct from Him.  ??????
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #33 on: July 04, 2010, 07:37:17 PM »
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  • I thought she was just sharing with us as something for us all to think about. The only problem I see is the suggestion that a different choice than hers somehow shows a lack of trust in God.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #34 on: July 04, 2010, 09:29:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: treadingwater

    We all believe conception is a gift from God I know childbirth is too.  Anyone who has given birth knows God is there in that moment.  To say that childbirth isn't spiritual is ludicrous, labor is a deep meditation of prayer.  Could you manage such an act surrounded by strangers disrupting your every thought, poking, prodding, robbing you of your dignity.


    The fact that you mentioned disruptions, "poking" and "prodding" suggests you don't know what using a midwife is like.

    As I mentioned before, we used a midwife for our 3rd child, so this isn't all theoretical for me. The midwife stayed in the other room for most of the labor -- it was very comforting for both of us, however, to have her there. She didn't check the cervix every set number of minutes, nor were any monitors used. It was done in a birth center bedroom, which had a completely home-like feel to it. We had the whole "house" to ourselves.

    And knowing how to deliver a baby with shoulder dystochia is one thing -- being able to do it on YOURSELF is another story. Even if you could, you'd be in the half of 1% of women who have that much fortitude. Women, like men, are much softer these days.

    For that matter, a real man should be theoretically be able to dig a bullet out of his own guts -- but few would have the "guts" to do it. Or, to pick a more realistic example, a man should be mature enough to be married at about 16 years old. Is that true anymore nowadays?

    As many of us said -- having a 15 year old woman (hopefully knowledgeable about some aspects of birth and basic medicine) who is NOT in labor somewhere in the house is infinitely better than going it alone.

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    Offline treadingwater

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    « Reply #35 on: July 05, 2010, 05:23:46 PM »
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  • I had a midwife for my last homebirth, her presence was at a minimum but a presence none the less.  
    I would love to believe I am an elite 1% but that is not the case.  There a dozens of websites, forums, and discussion boards full of women who believe in giving birth without assistance and have done it successfully numerous times.  I was disappointed to learn that so few of these women were catholic, every other faith was represented in much higher numbers.  
    I'am surprised by what hostility this post has created, we will have to agree to disagree.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #36 on: July 05, 2010, 05:32:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: treadingwater
    I had a midwife for my last homebirth, her presence was at a minimum but a presence none the less.  
    I would love to believe I am an elite 1% but that is not the case.  There a dozens of websites, forums, and discussion boards full of women who believe in giving birth without assistance and have done it successfully numerous times.  I was disappointed to learn that so few of these women were catholic, every other faith was represented in much higher numbers.  
    I'am surprised by what hostility this post has created, we will have to agree to disagree.


    Interpreting concern for yourself and your child as hostility suggests that you are not thinking clearly.

    You are taking an unnecessary risk and attempting to pass it off as faith.  Do you fear a doctor or midwife? Or is it the expense?

    What is the real reason for wanting to give birth alone?  Because I don't believe it's "trust in God."

    Offline treadingwater

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    « Reply #37 on: July 05, 2010, 05:37:26 PM »
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  • Safer Birth in a Barn?
    by Beth Barbeau

    © 2007 Midwifery Today, Inc. All rights reserved.

    [Editor's note: This article first appeared in Midwifery Today Issue 83, Autumn 2007.]

    Our deeper understandings of birth can come to us from the most unexpected sources and at the most unanticipated times. One of my most visceral “light-bulb” experiences came in New Mexico in the early 1990s when I was taking a break from midwifery and selling health insurance to self-employed individuals.

    One day I drove several hours to meet with the general manager of an immense horse farm, hoping to sell a large policy to cover his many farm hands. I ended up wandering through some of the buildings, searching for my appointment. I mentally noted as I passed that one of the stalls exuded energy that felt like birth. Peeking in, I found a swollen mare pacing restlessly in the afternoon quiet, deeply breathing and blowing.

    We were in the middle of the insurance presentation about an hour later when an assistant breathlessly burst in, saying that “so and so” was foaling! The manager stood up immediately and said, “Do you want to see a foal born?” He was startled when I asked if it was the mare I had glimpsed earlier. When I shared that I had trained as a midwife and it just “felt and smelled of birth,” he brightened and lost his taciturn ways, suddenly eager to talk about what he loved.

    Until the next few minutes I did not fully understand that I was in a very unusual place: a stud farm for some of the most valuable horses in the world. This particular unborn foal was worth about three million dollars and was expected to be of much greater value after birth because it shared lineage with two Triple Crown winners. The horseman explained what I was about to see as we hurried over. He was adamant about his instructions, stressing the careful attention to detail needed to protect the well-being of this babe of breath-taking value.

    “Don’t let the mare see you; crouch here in the hallway where you can peek over the half wall of the foaling box—the stress of seeing strangers at this time could put the foal in danger!”

    “The only person allowed near the mare is her familiar stable lad; even her vet is crouched as small as possible in the corner.” (And he was, hunched on his heels, silent and still, head and eyes downcast.)

    “We keep the lights dimmed, because bright lights agitate and distract the laboring mare.”

    “You’ll see that we’ve removed her halter and lead—you would never restrict the movement of a birthing mare; foals have been lost for less! She must be free to move any way she wants.”

    “She’s been in this box stall (when not out to pasture) for weeks, because she must be in a familiar environment to birth smoothly.”

    “There is her usual water and hay in the stall—never restrict their food in labor!”

    “Don’t say a word. Any sound might disrupt the birth and a disruption puts the foal in danger.”

    With these admonishments ringing in my ears, I crouched in the dim, silent passageway outside the birthing box with several others. We watched the mare birth a huge colt with grace, barely pausing in her pacing as he slid with a thump to the floor. All was quiet and still in the long minutes afterwards as the colt organized his breathing, gathered himself and finally staggered up. He was so unusually large and long-legged that he stood on his ankles, his cartilage too soft to support his weight. Still, the horseman was elated with the outcome, passing off the odd and worrisome appearance with a “give him time, he’ll work it out!”

    Ironic, isn’t it? The protocols in the world of animal husbandry to protect an offspring at the time of birth—no strangers, dimmed lights, freedom of movement, familiar environment, unlimited nourishment, respectful quiet, no disruptions—are done without hesitation because to do otherwise invites “unexplained distress” or sudden demise of the offspring. These thoughtful conditions are the norm, along with careful observation to determine when to use the technological expertise in true emergencies. When we have veterinarians in our childbirth education classes, they always start to smile and nod when I tell this story. In fact, what did your mom tell you when you found the cat birthing kittens in the drawer? “Shhhhhhh!” And why? Because she MIGHT STOP GIVING BIRTH (AND move the kittens!). These are givens—instinctive givens, even, for animals of all descriptions!

    Yet what are the “givens” for the human who births not in a barn, but in a “modern and advanced” hospital? In many cases, 100% the opposite! Usually a minimum of a dozen strangers pass through the world of the laboring mother in her first 12 hours in the hospital—security officer, patient transporter, triage secretary, admission clerk, triage nurse, resident and/or doctor on call, admitting nurse, first shift nurse, break nurse, additional nurse at delivery, doctor or midwife plus possibly students, anesthesiologist, pediatrician, etc. Bright lights in the triage and labor rooms are challenging to dim. Mothers are tethered to monitors or IV poles and are moved through a bright hall with unfamiliar sounds to a new room in a building devoted to illness/trauma that most have visited once briefly if at all. They receive poor quality “clear liquids only.” They are exposed to voices of others in the hall or chatting by the attendants during contractions and endless disruptions throughout! But then, do we ever find that we have an offspring experience “unexplained distress?” Of course, and at frightening rates! Yet, oddly, many of these disruptions are promoted as minor inconveniences or necessary to “protect” the baby.

    Curiously, while veterinarians commonly have to defend interventions in light of the additional cost and the risks associated with interfering with nature, providers caring for human mothers within the medical system more commonly are forced to defend why they did NOT intervene! Consider the high rates of inductions, epidurals, artificial rupture of membranes, immediate cord cutting, cesareans and the vigorous defense necessary to fight for anything different, especially if time is involved (time to go into labor, to progress, to push, to allow the cord to stop pulsation or to get “done” bonding). I’ve recently seen outstanding CNMs and obstetricians sacrifice their own political reputations and suffer departmental reprimands for births with great outcomes where they protected the mothers’ yearning for privacy, allowed extended pushing time with great vital signs or, during a healthy normal birth, followed their intuition and honored the mother’s begging to check heart tones frequently by hand during pushing instead of what the mother considered the massive intrusion of wearing the monitor belt. Interventions are considered to be the ultimate protection from litigation in human care, yet they contribute mightily to the high rates of distress in mothers and babies!

    In animal husbandry, the first line of defense for protecting the unborn is to protect and nurture the nutritional needs and comfort of the birthing female. In the case of institutionalized birth for humans, however, in spite of evidence to the contrary, the norm is to act as if the nutritional needs and the comfort of the birthing mothers are of concern to, at most, the marketing and public relations department! It’s an affront to common sense that as a society we are currently more accepting of the needs of foaling mares, whelping poodles and high-producing cows than of our birthing humans. From the high rates of fetal distress, meconium staining and breastfeeding problems, the consequences are clearly devastating to our infants, just as any decent horseman would predict.

    Beth Barbeau, midwife and educator, began attending homebirths in 1979 as the 16-year-old babysitter for the “big kids.” She has taught Childbirth Education classes for over 25 years, and recently launched “A New Baby in the House” to meet the unique needs of adopting parents. A life-long interest in providing better support and resources to families after the six week visit led Beth this spring to open Indigo Forest Co.: Growing Healthy Lives, a family-focused store and studio in Ann Arbor, Michigan. She and her stunt choreographer husband, Christopher, are parents to two homebirthed boys, Jianmarco (7) and Marcellin (5).


    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #38 on: July 05, 2010, 05:52:18 PM »
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  • Am I guessing right, that all those nonCatholic women were praised for what they did?
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #39 on: July 05, 2010, 05:53:04 PM »
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  • This doesn't say much as there were FOUR humans present including a vet and a midwife.  :smirk:
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #40 on: July 05, 2010, 05:58:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: Trinity
    Am I guessing right, that all those nonCatholic women were praised for what they did?


    I've read some stories like she mentions and the reactions are usually along the lines of "good for you, I could never do that" or "I wish the world didn't force women to resort to this."

    I've not personally seen a forum where the practice of birthing alone is praised as outright superior to other choices. I'm sure there are individuals who believe so, but it wasn't the majority opinion anywhere I've seen.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson



    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #42 on: July 10, 2010, 06:26:44 PM »
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  • Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #43 on: July 10, 2010, 06:29:47 PM »
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    Fraser's "free birth" argument, which on the surface appears feminist, is actually the opposite. It doesn't empower women to take control of their own bodies. It sends them and their babies into the dark ages of medical care - where women give birth with no medical care at all and face the very real possibility of death as a consequence.

    Read more: http://www.momlogic.com/2009/04/home_birth_advocates_baby_dies.php#ixzz0tKx3anUi


    Hah - appears feminist.  Then they throw in a shot at the "Dark Ages."

    Well, the main motivation is clearly pride and rebellion - and perhaps irrational fears.

    Offline treadingwater

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    « Reply #44 on: July 10, 2010, 07:07:06 PM »
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  • A baby death at home is always caused by the selfishness and irresponsibility of the mother.  A baby dies in the hospital no one would dare put such blame on the attendants.

    No charges were ever made against the woman in question.  She continues to run a wonderful website http://www.joyousbirth.info/.