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Offline treadingwater

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Trusting God
« on: June 26, 2010, 07:47:52 PM »
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  • I am pregnant with my seventh child.  It is my belief that God would not have left the fate of mankind in the hands of a flawed system.  That our bodies instinctively know how to birth our babies.  We are mammals in the basic sense horse's, cats, monkeys don't need an obstetrician to tell them when to push,  a nurse to hold their legs, or a midwife to empower them.  I am submitting to Gods will and design for motherhood trusting his plan for childbirth and letting my body give birth at home, alone.

    Why am I posting this here?  We are all "Catholics" trusting in Gods plan for us submitting to his will not our own.  How far are we all willing to follow his lead? at what costs?  


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Trusting God
    « Reply #1 on: June 26, 2010, 08:02:49 PM »
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  • Quote
    I am submitting to Gods will and design for motherhood trusting his plan for childbirth and letting my body give birth at home, alone.


    God gave us reason.  Should we imitate animals if there are good reasons not to do so?

    Trusting in God's will means accepting what happens without sin.

    It doesn't mean letting things go.  It isn't God's Will that we neglect to take necessary precautions.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Trusting God
    « Reply #2 on: June 26, 2010, 08:14:54 PM »
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  • I suppose that is okay if everything goes well, but what if; are you willing to chance the life of your baby and yourself on the if factor.

    God gave us the gift of medicine, just make sure you choose a good Catholic doctor, if possible.  

    Offline Raoul76

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    Trusting God
    « Reply #3 on: June 26, 2010, 09:14:27 PM »
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  • Is this a money issue?  I have heard that the hospital fees for childbirth are prohibitively expensive these days if you are not insured and that may be one of the ways that the devil tries to get Catholics to stop having large families.

     I would at least have a friend or a neighbor or someone around, or even train one of your kids in the rudiments of widwifery if you have a female old enough.  

    I admire your attitude if you truly don't have the money but are following God's design to have a large family.  But if you can scrape it together, do so.  

    P.S. I was watching a lecture by a parenting "expert" and he was talking about how a couple generations ago, parents raised ten kids more easily than parents today raise two.  Could this be because when you have a larger family, the older kids serve as auxiliary moms and dads?  I have no experience in these matters but it makes sense to me.  

    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Trusting God
    « Reply #4 on: June 26, 2010, 09:41:03 PM »
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  • I've read that the flaw in thinking "a dog/cat/horse doesn't need any assistance" is that these animals have animal-size brains and therefore animal-size heads. The most difficult aspect of delivery a human baby is the head.

    I'm not opposed to women who give birth alone out of necessity, but the reason should be more than thinking God intended for women to do so. I don't believe that's true.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...


    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #5 on: June 26, 2010, 10:55:56 PM »
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  • I'm actually almost done with a book right now that is the memoirs of a midwife who worked in Catholic Germany from 1887 to 1920(?) (she's "after the war" at this point, but I have a few chapters to go)

    Her involvement in the births increases as time passes, but early in the book, she was mostly a "catcher". Her main role being to reassure the mom when things were normal and to send for the doctor when things were not. Of course, she had a fair number of times when the doctor was unexpectedly necessary.

    Several of the "problems" would likely be caught early in these days with prenatal care, but I'm guessing that for many whose intention is to deliver at home alone, there probably hasn't been much in the way of prenatal care.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Trinity

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    Trusting God
    « Reply #6 on: June 27, 2010, 08:29:35 AM »
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  • Just off the top of my head, I had two pregnancies where the placenta had healed to my uterus and they had to manually tear it off.  That happened to my daughter, too, and the doctor didn't get it all out.  She almost bleed to death.  After the birth of her first they had a hard time cleaning his airways out, so that was touch and go.

    I knew a lady once who delivered her uterus.  The doctor had a heart attack on the spot, so they had to get him into care and get another doctor to put Rosemary back together.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #7 on: June 27, 2010, 08:32:06 AM »
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  • Back in the "olden days" when women died giving birth, that was the reason, bleeding to death.  


    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #8 on: June 27, 2010, 08:59:19 AM »
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  • Or milk fever.  You have to watch out for eclampsia, too.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline treadingwater

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    Trusting God
    « Reply #9 on: June 27, 2010, 02:54:49 PM »
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  • Can't anyone answer my question do you really believe that God bestowed all these gifts upon us except the ability to give birth?  We don't question our hearts ability to pump blood through our body, or are lungs to provide us with oxygen.  Why is the uterus the one organ he was unable to perfect?   Do you all believe that in this instance only man knows better?

    What if?  What if?
    The majority of complications during pregnancy are due to malnutrition and toxins.  I will not be growing this baby with diet cokes and cigarettes and hoping for the best.  I take my pre-natal care very seriously I treat any symptoms or concerns I may have with a proper diet supplements and herbal remedies.
    And yes God did give us the ability to REASON.  Intellect, study on this matter would  provide you with the knowledge to REASON that hospitals are not the safest place to give birth.  Its a system to benefit the doctors, and provide revenue for the hospital.  Doctors are trained in intervention not natural childbirth what good are you to them as a patient if they can not show off their skills. The U.S. is ranked 42 out of industrial countries for maternal death.  41 other countries do a better job of keeping women alive.  Women still die from hemorrhaging in hospitals everyday not from natural causes but a doctors necessary intervention.
    Dr. Gregory White a very well known catholic obstetrician wrote a manual called Emergency Childbirth.  An advocate for homebirth, he states in his book the best help you can give a laboring mother is no help most problems work themselves out.  This manual is used to train emt and firemen in childbirth, he also states that any fairly intelligent 8 year old could deliver a baby.

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    « Reply #10 on: June 27, 2010, 04:38:33 PM »
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  •   Humans have weaker instincts than animals. I mean just for example see how birds know how to built houses for themselves without being taught by anybody, while we can't.
      A baby has walking instinct but if he is not exposed to it, he can never walk. Nor can he distingiush between dangerous and safe things without guidance (unlike an animal kid).
      May be child brearing is not an exemption.
    It is funny how birds can eat everything yet if we do so we would end in hospital or death.
      In physycial matters may be we are created weaker than other creatures. Hence comes our need for doctors.
       But to be fair I must add: yes some elderly people do have greater knowledge in such matters than many doctors. It happens that some old lady can tell your due day more accuraty than your doc by simply looking at your eyes. Some can even guess baby's gender better than any scan.


    Offline Trinity

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    Trusting God
    « Reply #11 on: June 27, 2010, 06:53:39 PM »
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  • There was a man who got caught in a flood.  So he climbed a tree and waited trustfully for God to rescue him.  The rains kept falling and the water kept rising.  A rowboat came by and the people in it hollered for him to jump in.   He said, "No thanks.  God will rescue me."  The rains kept falling and the water kept rising.

    A large motor boat came by and the people in it hollered at him to jump in.  He said,  "No thanks.  God will rescue me."  So it went on its way.  The rains kept falling and the water kept rising.

    A helicopter came by and let down a rope and the people yelled, "Grab the rope and we'll pull you up."  But the man replied, "No thanks.  God will rescue me."  So the helicopter went on.   The rains kept falling and the water kept rising.  And the man drowned.

    When he got to heaven he asked God why He hadn't rescued him.  God said, "I sent people to get you three times."
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline treadingwater

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    « Reply #12 on: June 27, 2010, 07:38:45 PM »
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  • Your analogy would make sense if I or my baby were in fact in danger.

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #13 on: June 27, 2010, 09:40:07 PM »
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  • Treadingwater,

    You seem to pass over the third option -- a good, old-fashioned midwife.

    The office of midwife is about as old as mankind itself. There was not a time when women delivered babies by themselves. There WAS a time when most women gave birth at home, with women assisting them (midwives).

    I agree -- hospitals are not the best place to give birth, for a whole host of reasons. Too much intervention, attitude toward the human body and the birth process, atheistic philosophy, lack of traditional knowledge/common sense regarding childbirth, etc.

    But midwives are NOT a bad or newfangled idea! It's simply a woman -- trained in the art -- who assists you with giving birth. She knows all the quick remedies to most of what can go wrong -- and she knows when to send for a doctor.

    You haven't been on this forum long, but you might read some of my older posts -- I'm all about living like it's 1890. I live on 5 acres, I have an orchard, a garden, I recently got some chickens, I don't have any "gadgets", not even a cell phone. My house doesn't have a TV. So I'm all about going against the grain, especially where it helps my soul, my body, or my family.

    But giving birth alone is something for emergencies only. It would be imprudent to choose it on purpose, if you could afford a midwife.

    I notice you mentioned midwives in passing, but wrote them off as being about "empowerment". That's just how they reach the modern woman, to appeal to the affluent/middle class woman who likes the idea of having a "natural" birth -- let's face it, modern-day midwives have to make a living.

    My wife made use of a midwife for our 3rd child -- our first normal birth! (The other 2 were c-sections). She didn't preach anything about empowerment to us.

    Remember, God created food for us, too, but we can only eat through hard work -- that was the punishment after the Fall. Had Adam & Eve not sinned, delicious, perfect and nutritious food would grow as easily as weeds do today, and women would have painless and effortless childbirth. But since the banishment from Paradise, EVERYTHING has become more difficult and complicated -- controlling our lower nature, procuring food, going to heaven, acquiring knowledge...and having children.

    Matthew

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    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #14 on: June 27, 2010, 11:40:18 PM »
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  • Midwives are found in Scripture, even the earliest books:

    Exodus, chapter 1

    15 And the king of Egypt spoke to the midwives of the Hebrews: of whom one was called Sephora, the other Phua,
    16 Commanding them: When you shall do the office of midwives to the Hebrew women, and the time of delivery is come: if it be a man child, kill it: if a woman, keep it alive.

    And if that isn't old enough for you, how about:

    Genesis chapter 35

    16 And going forth from thence, he came in the springtime to the land which leadeth to Ephrata: wherein when Rachel was in travail, 17 By reason of her hard labour she began to be in danger, and the midwife said to her: Fear not, for thou shalt have this son also. 18 And when her soul was departing for pain, and death was now at hand, she called the name of her son Benoni, that is, The son of my pain: but his father called him Benjamin, that is, The son of the right hand. 19 So Rachel died, and was buried in the highway that leadeth to Ephrata, this is Bethlehem. 20 And Jacob erected a pillar over her sepulchre: this is the pillar of Rachel's monument, to this day.
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