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Author Topic: Tobacco Bulls  (Read 2697 times)

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Offline roscoe

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Tobacco Bulls
« on: August 26, 2011, 07:34:53 PM »
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  • Just another request for someone out there in Catholic cyberspace. If anyone knows how to procure the Papal bulls of Urban VIII, Innocent X and Benedict XIII re: The Brown herb, pls do so. An English version is probably in the vault of a monastary somewhere in England or Ireland.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline LordPhan

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    Tobacco Bulls
    « Reply #1 on: August 27, 2011, 10:07:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Just another request for someone out there in Catholic cyberspace. If anyone knows how to procure the Papal bulls of Urban VIII, Innocent X and Benedict XIII re: The Brown herb, pls do so. An English version is probably in the vault of a monastary somewhere in England or Ireland.


    How can we procure something that only exists in your phychotropicly drug induced mind. Tabacco was regarded as a medical marvel up until 1811 when it was discovered that nicotine was poisonous.


    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 10:21:12 PM »
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  • Sorry if the name of the poster escapes me but the above info has been posted here prev. The texts have never materialised. BTW-- King James was a crusader against tobacco as well-- no one gets everything wrong.

    So the allegation that tobacco was considered a 'medical marvel' is most incorrect.  :smoke-pot:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline LordPhan

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    Tobacco Bulls
    « Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 10:29:24 PM »
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    The tobacco smoke enema, an insufflation of tobacco smoke into the rectum by enema, was a medical treatment employed by European physicians for a range of ailments.

    Tobacco was recognised as a medicine soon after it was first imported from the New World, and tobacco smoke was used by western medical practitioners as a tool against cold and drowsiness, but applying it by enema was a technique appropriated from the North American Indians. The procedure was used to treat gut pain, and attempts were often made to resuscitate victims of near drowning. Liquid tobacco enemas were often given to ease the symptoms of a hernia.

    During the early 19th century the practice fell into decline, when it was discovered that the principal active agent in tobacco smoke, nicotine, is poisonous.

    Until its discovery and importation from the New World, tobacco was unknown to western medicine. Europeans were not ignorant of the effects of smoke; incense has been used since antiquity, and the narcotic effects of burning hemp seed was well known by the Scythians and Thracians. The ancient Greek physician Hippocrates recommended the inhalation of smoke for "female diseases" as did Pliny the Elder, as a cure for coughs. The Native Americans from whom the first western explorers learnt about tobacco used the leaf for a variety of purposes, including religious worship, but Europeans soon became aware that the Americans also used tobacco for medicinal purposes. The French diplomat Jean Nicot used a tobacco poultice as an analgesic, and Nicolás Monardes advocated tobacco as a treatment for a long list of diseases, such as cancer, headaches, respiratory problems, stomach cramps, gout, intestinal worms and female diseases.[1] Contemporary medical science placed much weight on humorism, and for a short period tobacco became a panacea. Its use was mentioned in pharmacopoeia as a tool against cold and somnolence brought on by particular medical afflictions,[2] its effectiveness explained by its ability to soak up moisture, to warm parts of the body, and to therefore maintain the equilibrium so important to a healthy person.[3] In an attempt to discourage disease tobacco was also used to fumigate buildings.[4]

    The stimulation of respiration through the introduction of tobacco smoke by a rectal tube was first practiced by the North American Indians.[5][6] An early example of the use of this procedure was described in 1809 by Thomas Sydenham, who to cure iliac passion prescribed first bleeding, followed by a tobacco smoke enema:

    Here, therefore, I conceive it most proper to bleed first in the arm, and an hour or two afterwards to throw up a strong purging glyster; and I know of none so strong and effectual as the smoke of tobacco, forced up through a large bladder into the bowels by an inverted pipe, which may be repeated after a short interval, if the former, by giving a stool, does not open a passage downwards.
    — Thomas Sydenham[7]
    Tobacco smoke enemas were also reportedly used by 19th-century Danish farmers, for horses that needed laxatives, and the US anthropologist Frank Speck reported that contemporary Catawba Native Americans also treated their horses using the technique.[8]

    To physicians of the time, the appropriate treatment for "apparent death" was warmth and stimulation. Anne Greene, a woman sentenced to death and hanged in 1650 for the supposed murder of her stillborn child, was found by anatomists to be still alive. They revived her by pouring hot cordial down her throat, rubbing her limbs and extremities, bleeding her, applying heating plasters and a "heating odoriferous Clyster to be cast up in her body, to give heat and warmth to her bowels." After placing her in a warm bed with another woman, to keep her warm, she recovered fully and was pardoned.[9] Artificial respiration and the blowing of smoke into the lungs or the rectum were thought to be interchangeably useful, however, the smoke enema was considered the most potent method, due to its supposed warming and stimulating properties.[2] The Dutch experimented with methods of inflating the lungs, as a treatment for those who had fallen into their canals and apparently drowned. Patients were also given rectal infusions of tobacco smoke, as a respiratory stimulant.[10] Richard Mead was among the first Western scholars to recommend tobacco smoke enemas to resuscitate victims of drowning, when in 1745 he recommended tobacco glysters to treat iatrogenic drowning caused by immersion therapy. His name was cited in one of the earliest docuмented cases of resuscitation by rectally applied tobacco smoke, from 1746, when a seemingly drowned woman was treated. On the advice of a passing sailor, the woman's husband inserted the stem of the sailor's pipe into her rectum, covered the bowl with a piece of perforated paper, and "blew hard". The woman was apparently revived.[2] In the 1780s the Royal Humane Society installed resuscitation kits, including smoke enemas, at various points along the River Thames,[2] and by the turn of the 19th century, tobacco smoke enemas had become an established practice in Western medicine, considered by Humane Societies to be as important as artificial respiration.[5]

    "Tobacco glyster, breath and bleed.
    Keep warm and rub till you succeed.
    And spare no pains for what you do;
    May one day be repaid to you."
    —Dr. Houlston (24 September 1774)[11]
    By 1805, the use of rectally applied tobacco smoke was so established as a way to treat obstinate constrictions of the alimentary canal that doctors began experimenting with other delivery mechanisms.[12] In one experiment, a decoction of half a drachm of tobacco in four ounces of water was used as an enema in a patient suffering from general convulsion where there was no expected recovery.[12] The decoction worked as a powerful agent to penetrate and "roused the sensibility" of the patient to end the convulsions, although the decoction resulted in excited sickness, vomiting, and profuse perspiration.[12] Such enemas were often used to treat hernias. A middle-aged man was reported in 1843 to have died following an application, performed to treat a strangulated hernia,[13] and in a similar case in 1847 a woman was given a liquid tobacco enema, supplemented with a chicken broth enema, and pills of opium and calomel (taken orally). The woman later recovered.[14]

    In 1811, a medical writer noted that "[t]he powers of the Tobacco Enema are so remarkable, that they have arrested the attention of practitioners in a remarkable manner. Of the effects and the method of exhibiting the smoke of Tobacco per anum, much has been written", providing a list of European publications on the subject.[15] Smoke enemas were also used to treat various other afflictions. An 1827 report in a medical journal tells of a woman treated for constipation with repeated smoke enemas, with little apparent success.[16] According to a report of 1835, tobacco enemas were used successfully to treat cholera "in the stage of collapse".[17]

    I may observe, that before I was called to this case, stercoraceous vomiting had decidedly set in. My object in ordering the tobacco infusion and smoke enemata was to favour the reduction of any obscure hernia or muscular spasm of the bowel which might exist. I also directed that the attendants of the girl should, after she had taken the crude mercury, frequently raise her up in bed, (she was too feeble to raise herself,) to alter her position from one side to the other, from the back to the belly, and vice versa, with the view of favouring the gravitation of the mercury to the lower bowels.
    —Robert Dick, M.D. (1847)[18]
    —Robert Dick, M.D. (1847)[18]
    [edit] DeclineAttacks on the theories surrounding the ability of tobacco to cure diseases had begun early in the 17th century. King James I was scathing of its effectiveness, writing "[it] will not deigne to cure heere any other than cleanly and gentlemanly diseases." Others claimed that smoking dried out the humours, that snuff made the brain sooty, and that old people should not smoke as they were naturally dried up anyway.[19]

    While certain beliefs regarding the effectiveness of tobacco smoke to protect against disease persisted until well into the 20th century,[20] the use of smoke enemas in Western medicine declined after 1811, when through animal experimentation Benjamin Brodie demonstrated that nicotine — the principal active agent in tobacco smoke — is a cardiac poison that can stop the circulation of blood.[5]




    The only thing you got right so far is that King James I a Protestant did not like Tobacco.

    Offline roscoe

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    Tobacco Bulls
    « Reply #4 on: August 27, 2011, 10:47:44 PM »
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  • It is true that I have not seen copies of the Bulls. Possibly whomever posted the info will step forward with  the source.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #5 on: August 27, 2011, 11:19:14 PM »
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  • I couldn't find the actual source with a search on cathinfo but I did find references to Urban and Innocent disapproving of the substance in one way or another. Maybe it was an old post b4 I was banned at FE.

    Btw-- I did run into a couple oldies but goodies. I had forgotten that Jamie has accused Pius IX of running a Cigarette factory-- what a bunch of crap. The only thing that was ever shown in the discussion was that he had a facility to extract Nicotine from the plant. Perhaps this was for the occasional snuff that some some popes are alleged to be fond of. I do not believe that either Pis IX or X ever smoked cigars.

    At any rate, that Pius Ix had a cigaret factory has never been shown.

    The Search function doesn't work all that well anyway as I was getting new posts with the older than 1 yr I requested. Also I began to get posts that didn't even have the word tobacco in them.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline LordPhan

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    « Reply #6 on: August 27, 2011, 11:26:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    I couldn't find the actual source with a search on cathinfo but I did find references to Urban and Innocent disapproving of the substance in one way or another. Maybe it was an old post b4 I was banned at FE.

    Btw-- I did run into a couple oldies but goodies. I had forgotten that Jamie has accused Pius IX of running a Cigarette factory-- what a bunch of crap. The only thing that was ever shown in the discussion was that he had a facility to extract Nicotine from the plant. Perhaps this was for the occasional snuff that some some popes are alleged to be fond of. I do not believe that either Pis IX or X ever smoked cigars.

    At any rate, that Pius Ix had a cigaret factory has never been shown.

    The Search function doesn't work all that well anyway as I was getting new posts with the older than 1 yr I requested. Also I began to get posts that didn't even have the word tobacco in them.


    Pope St. Pius X was a smoker.

    I don`t know about Blessed Pius IX but extracting Nicotine would be used for pesticide not personal consumption, the amount of nicontine in cigarrettes and cigars is microscopic, it takes less nicotine to kill someone then cyanide. When concentrated that is.

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #7 on: August 28, 2011, 12:04:59 AM »
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  • What is the source of the Pope Pius X smoker allegation?

    I would imagine that the point of extracting the nicotine would be to use the remaining nicotine free substance for snuff. I am hardly surprised to find that the nicotine itself is used to kill.
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    Offline Jamie

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    « Reply #8 on: August 28, 2011, 03:12:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    What is the source of the Pope Pius X smoker allegation?

    I would imagine that the point of extracting the nicotine would be to use the remaining nicotine free substance for snuff. I am hardly surprised to find that the nicotine itself is used to kill.


    Snuff contains nicotine - I own and use snuff from time to time.  I can assure you, it was never meant as a non-nicotine product - it is just meant as a different method to make the blood absorb nicotine. This is the brand I buy - as you can see it has a health warning on it.  This is one of the oldest snuff producing companies in the world and they still make the original flavors from the 1720s.

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2613846472_5aaabfb334.jpg

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #9 on: August 28, 2011, 08:30:16 PM »
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  • Your allegation that Pius IX had a 'cigarette factory' has never been shown. The only thing that has is that a facility existed to extract nicotine from the tobacco. The reason for this has never been established. Could it be to produce snuff that has either very little or no nicotine? That is my guess.

    Nicotine kills as is shown by the fact that-- among other things-- it is used a a pesticide.

    No source has been given yet for the allegation that Pius X was a smoker.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
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    Offline Canuk the Lionheart

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    « Reply #10 on: August 29, 2011, 09:55:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Sorry if the name of the poster escapes me but the above info has been posted here prev. The texts have never materialised. BTW-- King James was a crusader against tobacco as well-- no one gets everything wrong.

    So the allegation that tobacco was considered a 'medical marvel' is most incorrect.  :smoke-pot:


    Well King James’ opinion on the matter was rather fringe during his lifetime and a few hundred years after. Tobacco was considered soothing for the body -especially the throat and larynx- by many and merely a pleasant pastime by many more.

    By the way (I’m afraid to ask), what else “commendable” did king James do?


    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #11 on: August 29, 2011, 12:57:03 PM »
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  • Tobacco ' soothing for the throat & Larynx'? That may be the dumbest statement I have ever read.

    Quit using the smear tactics that are used by the other Jansenist heretics on this site-- I never said K James did Anything else commenable.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Canuk the Lionheart

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    « Reply #12 on: August 29, 2011, 02:03:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    Tobacco ' soothing for the throat & Larynx'? That may be the dumbest statement I have ever read.

    Quit using the smear tactics that are used by the other Jansenist heretics on this site-- I never said K James did Anything else commenable.


    You said "King James was a crusader against tobacco as well". Given that you clearly agree with King James on this matter, and included the words "as well" I concluded that he done other things you agree with. Tell me is understanding English grammar a Jansenist heresy as well?

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #13 on: August 29, 2011, 02:15:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Canuk the Lionheart
    Quote from: roscoe
    Tobacco ' soothing for the throat & Larynx'? That may be the dumbest statement I have ever read.

    Quit using the smear tactics that are used by the other Jansenist heretics on this site-- I never said K James did Anything else commenable.


    You said "King James was a crusader against tobacco as well". Given that you clearly agree with King James on this matter, and included the words "as well" I concluded that he done other things you agree with. Tell me is understanding English grammar a Jansenist heresy as well?


    The 'as well' comment was an allusion to Urban VIII and Innocent X-- not to anything else KJ did.
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    Offline Scotus

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    « Reply #14 on: September 22, 2011, 03:12:54 PM »
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  • Roscoe,

    Do you not use tobacco to dilute the cannabis?

    I had the odd puff of a joint - what we call cannabis cigarettes in Ireland - about six or seven years ago and tobacco was added.