Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Sweet Bioenergetics?  (Read 408 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Simeon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1369
  • Reputation: +897/-95
  • Gender: Female
Sweet Bioenergetics?
« on: August 31, 2025, 02:56:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have been conducting an n=1 experiment since the beginning of June.

    When I first saw the sugar diet posts here, I thought nothing could be more preposterous. I noticed, however, that Josefa decided to experiment with it (though I haven’t seen where, if at all, she posted results), and also I had come to the permanent conclusion that whether or not keto was good for me, I simply could not sustain it.

    When not on keto, I consume copious quantities of bread and butter, pasta, sugar, meat, fruits, and veggies. This ultimately does not work for me, because I have thyroiditis.

    Just for kicks and giggles, I decided to investigate the sugar diet, beginning with the notorious Cole Robinson. LOL!!!!

    I was intrigued, but knew better than to completely ditch protein and fat.

    To make a long story short, though pretty much immediately rejecting the Cole/Smelly Bell/DurianRider paradigm, I was still intrigued and steered towards bioenergetics.

    The two poster boys for this are Jay Feldman and Mike Fave, what I would call Youtube Bioenergetics Lite. From them I found Danny Roddy and a very interesting specimen called Georgi Dinkov. All of this is what I would call “Ray Peat Vertebrated.”

    Honestly, I haven’t been this intellectually stimulated in quite a while. I’m actually now reading Pub Med vomitus. LOL!!!

    One thing that has me fighting mad is the discovery that I should have gone gluten free decades ago.

    In any case, my n=1 consists of ditching gluten, nuts, seeds, grains, PUFAs, legumes, fatty fish, and fatty pork. I’m eating steak, ground beef, lean chicken, shrimp, eggs, cheese, butter, coconut oil, veggies, fruits, taters, rice, and SUGAR.

    I’ve seen a lot of recommendations that thyroid folk should cut dairy, but Vertebraic Peatism highly recommends it. I cut dairy out a few days ago, but it seems intolerable, so I brought back pecorino, 4oz whole milk once a day with 4 oz coffee, and reduced fat cheese to eat with fruit.

    Does anyone here follow this bioenergeticism?

    Any thoughts about:

    a) gluten ditching for thyroid

    b) dairy ditching for thyroid

    c) wild yam over the counter progesterone creams

    d) calcium d-glucarate for estrogen opposition

    e) vitamin D for estrogen opposition

    f) niacinamide for everything

    g) aspirin for everything

    One last question: Does anyone here with low thyroid function know how to ramp up metabolism? I’m eating a lot of simple carbs, rice, and taters to jump start the thing.





    Online Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12508
    • Reputation: +7954/-2452
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #1 on: August 31, 2025, 03:13:56 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    In any case, my n=1 consists of ditching gluten, nuts, seeds, grains, PUFAs, legumes
    Agree.  These all have major problems for the thyroid and other things. 

    Cut these out and What you’re left with is the “farmers diet”.  Dairy, eggs, butter, sugar, fruits, veggies.  Basically the Paleo diet.  Which is kinda a hybrid between the keto and sugar. 


    Offline Simeon

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1369
    • Reputation: +897/-95
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #2 on: August 31, 2025, 03:18:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Agree.  These all have major problems for the thyroid and other things. 

    Cut these out and What you’re left with is the “farmers diet”.  Dairy, eggs, butter, sugar, fruits, veggies.  Basically the Paleo diet.  Which is kinda a hybrid between the keto and sugar.

    Is this how you eat?

    Online Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12508
    • Reputation: +7954/-2452
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #3 on: August 31, 2025, 03:22:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Trying to switch to this more.  Butter is probably the best fat you can eat, except for true olive oil.  Cheese in moderation. Good fats help your liver, gallbladder and also thyroid.  But going super low carb increases cortisol/stress which hurts thyroid.  So both are good. 

    Also, rice is good.  Not high in gluten.  Wild rice is actually not rice.  White rice is easy to digest.  Rice preferred for those that don’t like pastas. 

    Also, when I said “sugar” I mean to include starches - potatoes and anything grown.  Cane sugar, etc 

    Offline Simeon

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1369
    • Reputation: +897/-95
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #4 on: August 31, 2025, 03:44:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Trying to switch to this more.  Butter is probably the best fat you can eat, except for true olive oil.  Cheese in moderation. Good fats help your liver, gallbladder and also thyroid.  But going super low carb increases cortisol/stress which hurts thyroid.  So both are good. 

    Also, rice is good.  Not high in gluten.  Wild rice is actually not rice.  White rice is easy to digest.  Rice preferred for those that don’t like pastas.

    Also, when I said “sugar” I mean to include starches - potatoes and anything grown.  Cane sugar, etc

    Yup, you are on exactly the same track I'm on.

    What a massive eye opener to discover that what the keto/carni community teaches is only 1/2 the truth. Gluconeogenesis is the devil, vis a vis good metabolism and thyroid function.

    I have so many subjects on my list to delve into. One of them is the problem of decreased CO2 production tanking metabolism.

    Here is an interesting technique I just stumbled upon to increase CO2. Who knew?




    Offline Simeon

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1369
    • Reputation: +897/-95
    • Gender: Female

    Online Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12508
    • Reputation: +7954/-2452
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #6 on: August 31, 2025, 04:25:37 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yup, you are on exactly the same track I'm on.

    What a massive eye opener to discover that what the keto/carni community teaches is only 1/2 the truth. Gluconeogenesis is the devil, vis a vis good metabolism and thyroid function.

    I have so many subjects on my list to delve into. One of them is the problem of decreased CO2 production tanking metabolism.

    Here is an interesting technique I just stumbled upon to increase CO2. Who knew?


    The eye opener for me was to think of the Lenten fast.  No meat, no oil (except omega 3s from fish), no eggs, no dairy.  The OLD fast.  This is basically the sugar diet.  

    And the science says that if you do something like this, super low oil/low protein, for a period (not long term), then the body goes and finds all the oils in your system and uses them up.  When your body runs on carbs only, it’s super easy to digest and gives it a rest.  You’re able to heal and repair.  It makes sense that God wouldn’t tell us something bad.  

    Offline Simeon

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1369
    • Reputation: +897/-95
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 09:54:19 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The eye opener for me was to think of the Lenten fast.  No meat, no oil (except omega 3s from fish), no eggs, no dairy.  The OLD fast.  This is basically the sugar diet. 

    And the science says that if you do something like this, super low oil/low protein, for a period (not long term), then the body goes and finds all the oils in your system and uses them up.  When your body runs on carbs only, it’s super easy to digest and gives it a rest.  You’re able to heal and repair.  It makes sense that God wouldn’t tell us something bad. 

    Absolutely! Great point!

    One of the questions I have involves releasing PUFAs from the body's fat storage. 

    I haven't started researching this yet, but the little I've come across seems to indicate that you don't want to go full spectrum fat burn - say, by a ketogenic diet - not only because you don't want to be in chronic fat oxidation, i.e. stress mode - but because you don't want to flood your bloodstream with these freed up PUFAs. 

    What I've so far been able to garner is that the ketogenic protocol will slow the metabolism, crash the thyroid, release mountains of fat into the blood, and overstimulate the stress response - so that in the long term you wreck your metabolism, stress your liver, raise cortisol, adrenaline, and estrogen, and make yourself less insulin sensitive. 

    If you eat - and possibly supplement (aspirin and niacinamide?) - in a manner calculated to slow down fatty acid oxidation, you may still lose weight by healing the metabolism, given that the heart, muscles and kidney like fat for energy, and so the body is always burning fat even when making good use of glucose metabolism. 

    Based on that idea, I am trying to keep dietary fat as saturated as possible, and under 60 grams per day. 


    Offline songbird

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5080
    • Reputation: +1999/-409
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 01:25:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • All grains are contaminated said a medical person giving lectures for CE's. CE's are classes for medical staff to keep up license .  This lady spoke in 2010 and said, even if the package says  GMO free, it is still contaminated.

    I had to learn from Sprouts, a man on the floor who spoke of nutrition.  My fats were high.  He said, liquid fish oil 1 tablespoon 1 hour before you eat or 1 hour after.  Fish gels don't work.  So, I got off lipitor and my high numbers came down in 4 weeks.  I was told to look at a book called Breaking the Vicious Cycle by Gottschall.

    I lost 10% of my weight.  Was able to come off my blood pressure pills.

    I don't go by the book entirely, but I make monster cookies for myself with almond flour.

    I took on steamed veggies with chicken and melted cheese. Substituted spaghetti squash for pasta.  I tried and did well for 10 years. then I lost my estrogens age 72.  I just have to try to be good.  I still cut back on glutens, because they are no longer appealing to me. 

    Offline AMDGJMJ

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4074
    • Reputation: +2478/-95
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 01:58:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • All grains are contaminated said a medical person giving lectures for CE's. CE's are classes for medical staff to keep up license .  This lady spoke in 2010 and said, even if the package says  GMO free, it is still contaminated.

    I had to learn from Sprouts, a man on the floor who spoke of nutrition.  My fats were high.  He said, liquid fish oil 1 tablespoon 1 hour before you eat or 1 hour after.  Fish gels don't work.  So, I got off lipitor and my high numbers came down in 4 weeks.  I was told to look at a book called Breaking the Vicious Cycle by Gottschall.

    I lost 10% of my weight.  Was able to come off my blood pressure pills.


    I don't go by the book entirely, but I make monster cookies for myself with almond flour.

    I took on steamed veggies with chicken and melted cheese. Substituted spaghetti squash for pasta.  I tried and did well for 10 years. then I lost my estrogens age 72.  I just have to try to be good.  I still cut back on glutens, because they are no longer appealing to me.
    Would you please share a link for the fish oil you recommend?  My husband has been on blood pressure medicine for a couple/few months and has been trying to figure how to get it down enough to get off the medication.

    We buy our spelt grain straight from the AncientGrains farm and use 100% homeground spelt in our bread/pizza/cookies etc.

    https://www.ancientgrains.com/

    My husband's health has been a LOT better since we started doing this even though it is a lot of extra work every day (Unless we have leftovers bread, rolls etc.)

    My family grew up making monster cookies!!!  My sister still likes to make them a lot for her husband since oatmeal is gluten free and he has celiac disease.  🥰
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/

    Offline AMDGJMJ

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4074
    • Reputation: +2478/-95
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 02:03:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Is this how you eat?
    We eat a "European Diet" or "Mediterranean Diet".  We focus a lot on fresh food. 

    Breakfast is usually eggs and toast or homemade cinnamon bread.  Sometimes it is plain yogurt with a little added non-gmo cane sugar and vanilla.

    90% of our breads and such are made at home. 

    Snacks are usually fruit. 

    Dinner is meat with a veggie.

    It is funny but we actually found that we are saving money not buying chips, crackers, etc. anymore.  And my last pregnancy my morning sickness wasn't half as bad!
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/


    Offline songbird

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5080
    • Reputation: +1999/-409
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 06:13:17 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Blood Pressure came down because of losing 10% of my weight, due to giving up glutens, breads, things that turn into sugar, potatoes and rice and pasta.

    To reduce the high fats, is Liquid fish oil. Carlson brand be it lemon or orange flavor.  I was at 600 high and went to 230 in 5 weeks using it twice a day.  It must be a tablespoon 1  hour before or 1 hour after you eat for it to work.

    My primary doctor said something I can't recall.  She said it was a family(inherited) thing.  Well, I don't know these things.

    Offline Simeon

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1369
    • Reputation: +897/-95
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 06:27:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • All grains are contaminated said a medical person giving lectures for CE's. CE's are classes for medical staff to keep up license .  This lady spoke in 2010 and said, even if the package says  GMO free, it is still contaminated.

    I had to learn from Sprouts, a man on the floor who spoke of nutrition.  My fats were high.  He said, liquid fish oil 1 tablespoon 1 hour before you eat or 1 hour after.  Fish gels don't work.  So, I got off lipitor and my high numbers came down in 4 weeks.  I was told to look at a book called Breaking the Vicious Cycle by Gottschall.

    I lost 10% of my weight.  Was able to come off my blood pressure pills.

    I don't go by the book entirely, but I make monster cookies for myself with almond flour.

    I took on steamed veggies with chicken and melted cheese. Substituted spaghetti squash for pasta.  I tried and did well for 10 years. then I lost my estrogens age 72.  I just have to try to be good.  I still cut back on glutens, because they are no longer appealing to me.

    1. I believe what you report about grains. 

    2. There are a few things in your post which I find interesting. Since June, I've been learning a lot about polyunsaturated fats (PUFAs) which are the seed oils, and the naturally occurring fats in nuts, seeds, grains, fatty fish, and even commercial pork and chicken fat. Apparently long term ingestion of these oils leads us to living dead status, and may be up at the top of the list of causes of the chronic disease pandemic in this country. I've been discovering that "heart healthy" and "essential fatty acids," terms used to sell these oils to the public, is acute balderdash. 

    That being said, the old school habit of swallowing a daily teaspoon of cod liver oil is most likely based on sound reason. Consider that this daily dose was in addition to a diet which abounded in saturated fats, as crisco and mazola had not yet found their market shares.  

    3. I'm also learning a lot about estrogen. Apparently it is much less a "female hormone" than a driver of the stress metabolic pathway. It works in conjunction with cortisol and other body chemicals to smash the thyroid and burden the liver - meaning it tanks metabolism and creates the toxic, hypoxic environment that diseases like diabetes and cancer thrive in. Indeed, many cancers now are estrogen receptive - which means they grow in the beta oxidation (stress metabolism) pathway. I don't think the problem for us old gals is not enough estrogen. It is too much. If we could benefit from any supplementation, maybe it is progesterone. But I'm not far enough along in my research to positively affirm that.  

    4. You know what's wild? Even though I cut out all grains, nuts, seeds, and legumes, I am craving nothing. Not even pizza - which I would have considered impossible. I know why. It is because I'm eating lots of sugar in the form of fruit, juice, and added sugar. Eating as much of that stuff as you like changes you completely. I really mean it. Just today, I was working around the house, taping off and painting molding. Lots of bending and scooting on the floor. My stomach felt different. It felt light, like my old self. I could bend like Gumby. A feeling of heaviness has left me. Hmmm. 

    Offline Simeon

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1369
    • Reputation: +897/-95
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 06:32:26 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • We eat a "European Diet" or "Mediterranean Diet".  We focus a lot on fresh food. 

    Breakfast is usually eggs and toast or homemade cinnamon bread.  Sometimes it is plain yogurt with a little added non-gmo cane sugar and vanilla.

    90% of our breads and such are made at home. 

    Snacks are usually fruit. 

    Dinner is meat with a veggie.

    It is funny but we actually found that we are saving money not buying chips, crackers, etc. anymore.  And my last pregnancy my morning sickness wasn't half as bad!

    Sounds like you figured out what works for your family. Over the last several years, I've noticed an actual pain in my esophagus and stomach whenever I eat bread. I also bake my own bread, and it is the first thing I instinctively look for when hungry. Thankfully, as I said above, I'm not craving it right now. It seems to me that as we age the chickens come home to roost. All of a sudden, we cannot eat the way we once did. 

    Offline Seraphina

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4338
    • Reputation: +3313/-345
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Sweet Bioenergetics?
    « Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 07:15:43 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Looking back at the century, which generations seemed to have the best health or be known for longevity? 
    I come up with the Silent Generation. What could be the reason?  I’m thinking it was because they ate a natural, (no processed junk), balanced diet, meat, fish, vegetables both green and starch, whole grains, not excessive fruits, and whole, raw dairy products,mtook basic supplements such as cod liver oil, few sugary snacks, no hfcs, no msg, ate homemade fresh foods, not habitually at restaurants. During the war and Depression, diets were basic due to rationing of luxury products and quantity. People got lots of exercise from their lifestyle, whether play, work, or transportation. Mitigating factors in statistics were the war and Depression, stress related to it, plus some diseases. Vaccines were used advantageously and were few. Most people got the less serious diseases in childhood and most recovered with natural, lifelong immunity. Examples are mumps, measles, chicken pox, German measles (rubella), there was no mRNA or use of fetal cell lines in making vaccines. There were vaccines against smallpox and diphtheria. Polio, rheumatic fever, and tuberculosis continued to pose threats until antibiotics became common in the late 1930’s and throughout the war. Knowledge of the relationship between good sanitation and sensible quarantine and staying disease free increased to a point that was sometimes better than that of today. 
    People as a whole lived more wholesome, Godly lives. Families stayed together, didn’t constantly move, families were larger, families, friends, churches and other religious institutions offered mutual support, much less birth control short of mechanical, not chemical means, trust among people was higher because most people were, indeed trustworthy. Divorce was stigmatized as was promiscuity. Unnatural relations were much fewer and not even mentioned in decent company. Moral and sɛҳuąƖ purity, modesty, honesty, willingness to sacrifice, hard work, industriousness, thrift, avoiding debt, taking responsibility for one’s actions were valued by society. The opposite vices existed for sure, but were highly stigmatized. 
    Assuming you didn’t die in the war or of a disease like polio, many people from this generation lived long, fulfilling lives. 
    My parents lived into their late 90’s. So did my aunts and uncles, one of whom is still living at 95. One of seven of my cousins, her children, is living. A number of people from this generation still live reasonably active lives. Neighbors in my community, 55+, live independently or with some help, kids or home health assistants. Silent and Greatest generation are more numerous than Boomers. On my block, a neighbor, Mrs. Albion just died at age 106! She had a full time nurse, but she was still active in June. She was at a ladies’ luncheon, in her right mind. There are many people in their late 80’s and 90’s. There is a Veterans’ club with men and two women who served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. The women were both nurses who served in Korea, one on a hospital ship, the other at a battalion aid hospital on Korean soil, the first stop, for the injured closest to the front. They’re in their mid-80’s. Many of my friends’ parents lived into their late 80’s or 90’s. 
    I’m not saying we should want to turn back time, but instead of fad diets so prevalent starting in the late 1950’s through today, we should adopt aspects of the foods and lifestyles of the earlier generations where that is doable in 2025. 
    Forget the sugar diet, the keto diet, intermittent fasting, grapefruit diet, grape diet, and commercial diets like Slim Fast, Aids Chocolate meal replacement, water diet, taking extreme amounts of supplements, overdoing exercise, etc.