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Offline ggreg

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Socialised healthcare
« on: January 30, 2019, 02:48:06 AM »
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  • https://www.businessinsider.com/an-american-uses-britain-nhs-2015-1?r=US&IR=T

    It is interesting to read the views of people who have used both systems.  Some good write-ups on quora too,

    I had a US colleague of mine (single women aged 56) die of undiagnosed stage 4 liver cancer because while she was paying $18000 per year in insurance premiums she was put off by the copay and deductibles.

    Overall I think socialised medicine is a much better, fairer and kinder solution.

    Will any of us live to see the day when the US has a 'free at the point of need' healthcare system?

    Offline DLaurentius

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #1 on: January 30, 2019, 04:01:25 AM »
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  • A government subsidized medical system is not wrong per se. Many Catholic governments such as the Spanish State and the Second Portuguese Republic actually had government subsidized medical systems. However, the term "socialism" often has materialist and Marxist connotations. It is a term that is almost solely used by enemies of The Church.
    "For though I should walk in the [valley] of the shadow of death, I will fear no evils, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they have comforted me." - Psalm 22:4 (Douay-Rheims)


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #2 on: January 30, 2019, 04:56:26 AM »
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  • DLaurentius, the term is socialised not socialist. I am not sure if that makes a difference. It's a question.
    .
    Almost all my experience is of socialised medicine and I have been satisfied with the treatment I have received. I am not a person to frequent hospitals, and only go when it is necessary, like in the case of heart attack, ruptured appendix, stroke. I have found our hospital system to be as efficient and responsive as can be expected considering how many go to hospitals if they have a cold or kick their toe (thus clogging the system). Of course many have other non-medical needs that are not attended to, but that is another topic.
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    I say almost all, but haven't time to go into my experiences of being a paying customer.
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    I have been in quite a few emergency situations. In an emergency there has been virtually no waiting time and I have been seen promptly and got good treatment. I do not pay any insurance. Our daughter, who worked as a nurse in two hospitals, told me that the treatment given to public patients is similar, or better than, that given to private patients. There is also the risk that doctors are inclined to give unnecessary treatments if they know that you are covered by insurance. One simple example is the greater amount of intervention in obstetrics for private patients compared with public patients with the same or similar risks. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC27430/
    .
    Incidentally, I have used the health systems of Australia, Italy (where I am even entitled to free medications), U.K., Mauritius and Madagascar, so I have quite a wide experience of health systems.

    Offline DLaurentius

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #3 on: January 30, 2019, 05:52:09 AM »
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  • DLaurentius, the term is socialised not socialist. I am not sure if that makes a difference. It's a question.

    You are correct. The term "socialized" does not necessarily mean socialist. However, I live in the United States, where the terms "socialized medicine" and "socialized healthcare" are strongly associated with socialism.
    "For though I should walk in the [valley] of the shadow of death, I will fear no evils, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they have comforted me." - Psalm 22:4 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline ggreg

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #4 on: January 30, 2019, 10:16:56 AM »
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  • Another thing I dislike about the US system is the amount of paperwork and due diligence you have to do.  I have read a lot of stories of big medical bills arriving for tests and xrays and peripheral stuff, or not being able to discover the price with any fixed costs before starting a procedure.  People haggling the price with their hospital or insurance company or 3rd party biller.

    Bad enough being ill, but you then have to administer your own healthcare before and afterward? It appears to be as complex as your car, travel, home contents and life insurances and your tax returns all combined.

    I am far too lazy to want to bother with all of that.


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #5 on: January 30, 2019, 10:22:47 AM »
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  • Before Obamacare, my family paid 1/3 of what we are charged today under this American brand of socialized medicine. The best doctors from all over the world use to come to the USA to work and the rich from all over the world came to the USA for serious medical work (and from all the socialized medicine countries). I do not think that is the case anymore since Obamacare.

    Obamacare was just a trick to get the government (our tax dollars) to pay insurance companies to insure 35 million people who were uninsured. It is all about enriching the insurance companies.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline ggreg

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #6 on: January 30, 2019, 10:39:09 AM »
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  • They also fly to Britain.  I had my teety cleaned in India, marvellous job (they spent much longer on it) and cost me 15 dollars.  People go to Bulgaria and Hungary for cosmetic surgery and dentistry.  Medical tourism exists all over the world.

    $12,000 a year to cover your family?  I hardly pay much more than that in annual taxes if you ingore VAT (sales tax).  That is an astonishing amount of money.

    Lots of Brits living in the US just fly home for 6 hours, even if they have insurance cover in the US to avoid the hassle.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jan/12/us-healthcare-system-leaves-brits-baffled-enraged

    Offline ggreg

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #7 on: January 30, 2019, 10:45:23 AM »
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  • If I was a yank, I would learn to speak with a British accent and just fly to the UK when I got really sick.  They never ask for ID here.

    You'd have to sound better than Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins though.  Rene Zwillewegger was the best I have ever heard, she nailed it.

    If you are dark Mexican just do a Pakistani accent.   Any Euro accent will work too.


    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #8 on: January 30, 2019, 11:27:21 AM »
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  • Before Obamacare, my family paid 1/3 of what we are charged today under this American brand of socialized medicine. The best doctors from all over the world use to come to the USA to work and the rich from all over the world came to the USA for serious medical work (and from all the socialized medicine countries). I do not think that is the case anymore since Obamacare.

    Obamacare was just a trick to get the government (our tax dollars) to pay insurance companies to insure 35 million people who were uninsured. It is all about enriching the insurance companies.
    Obamacare isn't socialized medicine though... people buying private insurance through a market is very, very capitalistic. Something akin to the Swiss system, where it works over there.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #9 on: January 30, 2019, 11:31:40 AM »
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  • $12,000 a year to cover your family?  
    That rate is 10 years old. The Obamacare rate for my family of 6+ was $25,000 last time I checked like 2 years ago. For the average Joe, it's better to just not have insurance, pay the tax penalty. I've belonged to a shared care ministry for like 5 years and pay like $6000 a year and go to whatever doctors I choose. That's less than $800 a year per person.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline ggreg

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #10 on: January 30, 2019, 11:55:33 PM »
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  • What happens with shared care schemes when it comes to big payouts?

    You need expensive cancer treatment or dialysis and a kidney transplant.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #11 on: January 31, 2019, 04:53:31 AM »
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  • That rate is 10 years old. The Obamacare rate for my family of 6+ was $25,000 last time I checked like 2 years ago. For the average Joe, it's better to just not have insurance, pay the tax penalty. I've belonged to a shared care ministry for like 5 years and pay like $6000 a year and go to whatever doctors I choose. That's less than $800 a year per person.
    Yes, my insurance went from like $2000/year to over $9000/year and pretty much nothing was covered under that evil Obama care curse. And heaven help you if you have a really good paying job because the amount they take goes up exponentially the more you make. 

    Such a perverted country praised that idiot for his "Affordable Care Act" forced upon the whole flipping country. Not sure if that's worse than the other side of the coin, where ignoramuses were screaming and protesting Trump's big tax cuts a few years ago. 

    Health insurance should have been left alone because it has turned into a giant, expensive, corrupt cluster, same as everything else our government touches. 
    O what shall I, so guilty plead, and who for me will intercede? when even Saints shall comfort need!

    Offline cosmas

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #12 on: January 31, 2019, 02:13:26 PM »
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  • GGREG, WHY DON'T YOU GO BACK TO CHINA OR RUSSIA OR WHEREVER YOU CAME FROM. OUR MEDICAL SYSTEM IS NOT PERFECT BUT SOCIALIZED MEDICINE IS A FOOT IN THE DOOR FOR COMPLETE GOVT. TAKEOVER. TRY TALKING TO A REFUGEE THAT HAS ESCAPED RUSSIA CHINA OR CUBA. I HAVE ,IT LOOKS GOOD ON PAPER UNTIL YOU GET HIT WITH HARDCORE REALITY. COMPLETE TAKEOVER ! YOU LOSE ALL YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS. KEEP DREAMING !

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #13 on: January 31, 2019, 03:35:37 PM »
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  • GGREG, WHY DON'T YOU GO BACK TO CHINA OR RUSSIA OR WHEREVER YOU CAME FROM. OUR MEDICAL SYSTEM IS NOT PERFECT BUT SOCIALIZED MEDICINE IS A FOOT IN THE DOOR FOR COMPLETE GOVT. TAKEOVER. TRY TALKING TO A REFUGEE THAT HAS ESCAPED RUSSIA CHINA OR CUBA. I HAVE ,IT LOOKS GOOD ON PAPER UNTIL YOU GET HIT WITH HARDCORE REALITY. COMPLETE TAKEOVER ! YOU LOSE ALL YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS. KEEP DREAMING !
    Something tells me you are ANGRY. HaHa  :jester:

    Offline ggreg

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    Re: Socialised healthcare
    « Reply #14 on: February 01, 2019, 02:23:52 AM »
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  • There are plenty of countries with socialised medicine where people have civil rights.  Most of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Chile and much of SE Asia.

    I have lost count of the number of Americans who own small businesses but cannot grow them or are in jobs, but fear leaving them, because they are tied down by the replacement cost of medical insurance.  It is front of mind for many Americans.   Europeans are much more relaxed about the whole thing, plus I have never had to fill out a piece of medical paper work in my life other that those tick boxes for allergies. 

    I doubt medical care in Cuba and Russia were good for the common peasant before socialism,  they just died early and had no house to sell.

    Looking after sick people is one thing I don't mind paying taxes for.  I find it very unfree that a women who gives birth to a sick child or a person needing prescription medicine to keep them alive has to liquidate their assets or beg for charity to pay 1000s per month for pills.  No private corporation should have that power over live and death and be able to set the price for maximal profit.  And believe me they do exactly that.  An accountant works out the price to set the drug at to keep as many people alive who can afford it.  There is a need, demand, price optimization curve in the report, just like there is with Netflix pricing.  The difference being you don't need Netflix to stay alive or out of acute pain.

    That is not freedom.  That is handing a licence to print money to an unelected corporate oligopoly who will use it to bleed you dry because your alternative is suffering and death.

    Were it not for socialised medicine my father would have been bringing up 9 children on his own from 1971 onwards because my mother had kidney failure.  So I admit a personal bias.


     

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