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Author Topic: Sleep Apnea  (Read 3099 times)

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Offline Vladimir

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Sleep Apnea
« on: July 08, 2012, 10:00:34 AM »
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  • Does anyone here use a sleep apnea breathing machine?





    Offline Roman55

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 01:11:04 PM »
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  • Yes and I'm anxious to hear of more experiences and alternative cures to this problem.
    I understand those things can make one more miserable than if they had not used it.  


    Offline Roman55

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 01:12:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Vladimir
    Does anyone here use a sleep apnea breathing machine?



    I misspoke- in answer to your question I don't use one, but knew someone who did.  Not fun.

    Offline Vladimir

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 04:54:27 PM »
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  • I have heavy sleep apnea and have used a breathing machine every night for about a month now. I've only taken brief daytime naps without it.

    Several years ago, I made a habit of getting up very early in the morning, but these past few years I noticed myself getting more and more tired in the morning and being unable to wake up as early as I liked. At someone's recommendation I went into a few overnight sleep studies and tested positive for sleep apnea.

    The first night I used the breathing machine, it was almost miraculous. I only had about 4 hours of sleep and I felt better rested than nights that I would get 7-8 hours. My experience with it so far has been mixed - the machine does not guarantee a good night's rest but only gives the sleeper a "fair chance" at one.

    I haven't thought about alternative cures, but for sleep apnea, it doesn't seem like there can be any. The breathing machine doesn't function on a chemical level, all it does is pump air into the breather's nose to ensure that he receives enough oxygen during the night and doesn't wake up from choking and cessation of breath. The cause of sleep apnea is not chemical, but physical. So short of surgery, if it is even possible, what sort of alternate cure could there be?


    As to making the apnea worse, it doesn't seem likely. All the machine does is ensure continued breathing. There are cases of people becoming psychologically dependent on the machine who "cannot" sleep without it. The technician in one of the sleep studies told me that occasionally when someone's insurance plan changes and the new one no longer covers the breathing machine, they will need to go to an overnight sleep study without the machine to show that they are in physical need of the machine, without which they cannot function, but they end up being unable to sleep long enough to gather sufficient data since they cannot fall asleep without the machine.

    This seems to be a problem in the mind, and not with the machine. Without the machine, at worse, it would seem that I would revert to having restless sleep and tired mornings.

    Of course, I am also concerned about becoming dependent on the machine. It doesn't seem like something one could drag to a monastery or seminary.



    Offline Roman55

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #4 on: July 08, 2012, 05:10:33 PM »
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  • That is quite interesting.  I shared a house with someone who had sleep apnea.  I didn't dare cook a late night anything as they would awake, believing they were being pummeled with this aroma rammed into their nostrils.  

    I wonder sometimes if I have sleep apnea, but can't afford, yet, to get myself checked out.  I'm always tired.... have been for over 30 yrs.  Yet, I'm told to get B12 shots as "that is what I'm lacking".  I've wondered how it is we've come to have so many "doctors" who've never gone to med school seem to "know what ales ya and what will fix you up"  I"m not against good advise, but I've got an overflowing medicine cabinet because of people with 'good advice'.  I just wish after being out of bed for two hours; having slept for 8, that I didn't feel like going back to bed to sleep for another 8!  


    Offline Roman55

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #5 on: July 08, 2012, 05:13:30 PM »
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  • Have you ever heard of "I hate CPAP"?  I have a vague familiarity.  Is it an alternative to the 'air mask'?

    Offline Vladimir

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #6 on: July 08, 2012, 05:48:03 PM »
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  • I just wrote a long post that was deleted, so I will summarize:

    - I just looked at that website (I hate CPAP). It is interesting. Some of their alternatives (which are by no means unconventional) include tonsil removal, etc. Obviously, this will only help patients with enlarged tonsils and cannot be applied universally.

    - I don't use a full face mask, but just the "nasal pillows". They go directly into the nostrils and inflate due to the pressure of the positive air so they do not fall out during the night. They are not uncomfortable. Not everyone can use them, because some people tend to breath through their mouths which would negate the positive air coming in through the nostrils. If you breath through your mouth without the machine, it may just be a sign that your body is reacting in order to get more oxygen, so the only way to test is to try the nasal pillows in a sleep lab.



    Offline ggreg

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 07:55:25 AM »
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  • I went to bed last night at about 11pm and had to get up at 5:30am to drive some friends to the station so they could catch a Eurostar train to Paris.

    I've been having troubled sleep recently, waking up for an hour at around 3am, so last night I did not eat anything after 8pm and before I went to bed drank a large cup of chamomile tea.

    Slept like a log.  My smartphone alarm went off at 5:20am and according to my wife I turned it off and went straight back to sleep.  At 5:24am my guest knocked on the bedroom door (I'd asked him to just incase) and woke me up.  I could not remember turning off the alarm, or, even it going off 4 minutes before.  As far as I could tell I had slept deeply and continously from 11:05pm.

    Now that is what I call a deep sleep.

    Doesn't taste very nice but I think I will drink a cup everynight now.


    Offline Ethelred

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #8 on: July 19, 2012, 09:09:05 AM »
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  • Several of my friends are snorers, and a few are heavy snorers who experience some sort of sleep apnea.

    What seems common amongst them is they snore most intensively when they sleep in supine position (i.e. on their back) and then they usually have their apneas. But they don't snore so much when they're not sleeping in supine position but on the side.

    Some of them found a simple domestic remedy together with their wives, and this was an interesting topic in our group of regulars:
    Bind one or two tennis balls or something similar on your back, either within a mini rucksack or wrapped into a scarf which is bound on the back like a rucksack. So that the tennis ball stays firmly in the middle part of your back and prevents you from going in the supine position.
    It's a bit like The Princess and the Pea from Danish author Hans Christian Andersen...

    This remedy may sound funny but apparently it works reasonably well. The few friends using it still don't sleep like a dog (because sleeping on the back isn't possible anymore and this was a very relaxing position), but head and shoulders better compared to before.
    Some said because of their sleep apnea their daily work was burdened a lot, but since they use a tennis ball on their back they're fit for use.

    Don't hold your breath, because it may or may not work in each case, but I think it's worth a try (of course try it more often than one night). If it works, well then it's also very handy and practicable in a monastery, seminary or hotel room.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #9 on: July 28, 2012, 11:40:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: Vladimir
    I have heavy sleep apnea and have used a breathing machine every night for about a month now. I've only taken brief daytime naps without it.

    Several years ago, I made a habit of getting up very early in the morning, but these past few years I noticed myself getting more and more tired in the morning and being unable to wake up as early as I liked. At someone's recommendation I went into a few overnight sleep studies and tested positive for sleep apnea.

    The first night I used the breathing machine, it was almost miraculous. I only had about 4 hours of sleep and I felt better rested than nights that I would get 7-8 hours. My experience with it so far has been mixed - the machine does not guarantee a good night's rest but only gives the sleeper a "fair chance" at one.

    I haven't thought about alternative cures, but for sleep apnea, it doesn't seem like there can be any. The breathing machine doesn't function on a chemical level, all it does is pump air into the breather's nose to ensure that he receives enough oxygen during the night and doesn't wake up from choking and cessation of breath. The cause of sleep apnea is not chemical, but physical. So short of surgery, if it is even possible, what sort of alternate cure could there be?


    As to making the apnea worse, it doesn't seem likely. All the machine does is ensure continued breathing. There are cases of people becoming psychologically dependent on the machine who "cannot" sleep without it. The technician in one of the sleep studies told me that occasionally when someone's insurance plan changes and the new one no longer covers the breathing machine, they will need to go to an overnight sleep study without the machine to show that they are in physical need of the machine, without which they cannot function, but they end up being unable to sleep long enough to gather sufficient data since they cannot fall asleep without the machine.

    This seems to be a problem in the mind, and not with the machine. Without the machine, at worse, it would seem that I would revert to having restless sleep and tired mornings.

    Of course, I am also concerned about becoming dependent on the machine. It doesn't seem like something one could drag to a monastery or seminary.


    My experience duplicates your own.

    I had a friend who got an appliance for his mouth from a specialist to relieve his
    sleep apnea. The device is custom formed for your oral cavity, and its purpose is
    to keep your tongue in a forward position. Normally, when you sleep, your
    muscles relax, including the throat and tongue muscles, which allows you tongue
    to settle back into your throat. Obviously, this is more the case when you are
    face up, or sleeping on your back. Whether you use a pillow or not is of little
    importance. So, by keeping the tongue forward, the soft palate is not pressured
    to close, and then you can breathe normally through the nose, with mouth closed.

    There is another muscular contribution to apnea: the soft tissues at the soft palate
    tend to sag in sleep, making the air passage through the nose more restricted.
    This is accentuated by the tongue drooping backward.

    I have heard "experts" proclaim that nobody is able to feel when their soft
    palate is open or closed. That's not true. I can ALWAYS tell whether mine is open
    or closed, provided I'm awake! This is because of my history with allergies as
    a child, when I discovered that by closing my soft palate and thereby not
    breathing through my nose, the allergens in the air would not affect my sinuses.
    So me and my soft palate "go way back." Later, learning to sing, lessons that
    attempted to teach me how to open my soft palate were unnecessary, to the
    amazement of my voice coach. I guess there's a first time for everything.

    C-PAP machines provide a gentle, continuous positive pressure of air over the
    mouth and nose, allowing for exhalation by the fact of increased pressure from
    the breathing out. It's a simple theory, and it works okay, so long as the other
    things are all right. For me, they are not all right. And from what I hear, I am not
    alone. I had enormous relief the first night I used my C-PAP. I was really
    excited about it. I thought I was cured forever, alleluia!

    But it only lasted a few days. After about a week, I started to have problems, etc.

    It is now many years later and I have not used one for about 7 years. They need
    regular maintenance, and you have to keep replacing the face mask/apparatus,
    because they wear out. Even the very highest quality face gear wears out, and
    they can cost hundreds of dollars. Your insurance probably won't cover those,
    because there are cheaper options. I was a certified SCUBA diver, and the face
    mouthpieces for diving are much less expensive than the CPAP rigs. And they are
    more technically demanding, for use in salt water environments and all. I
    suspect the CPAP devices are especially pricey because they are medical devices
    and therefore 4 times what they're worth due to all the fingers in the pie, so to
    speak.

    Without some kind of device, I don't get very good sleep. And that's not good.

    One thing that did help a lot was an operation I had, from an excellent IENT
    surgeon, when he went in and did a biopsy for suspected tumor in my throat. The
    tumor was negative, only a fungus, or a "wart." But while he was in there, and I
    was under general anaesthesia, he removed a small portion of soft palate tissue,
    and cauterized it or whatever. That took a few days to heal up, but then I was
    ever since much more able to breathe freely on one side (deviated septum makes
    the other nostril much less passable anyway). I was fortunate that he was able to
    do this all at the same time, to save the expense of an elective surgery. My
    insurance would not accept the soft palate procedure as a necessary one. Go
    figure.

    Overall, sleep apnea is a dangerous thing. It can kill you. Your body's oxygen
    concentration gradually decreases with reduced air in sleep, until such time as all
    of your nervous system FLASHES with a shock to try and wake you up. It's your
    body's last chance to preserve itself. People who die from suffocation must
    experience this involuntary "shocking" as their consciousness wanes. Their body
    would lurch, as if convulsing. One time, I awoke at night standing up in my bed,
    having arisen suddenly and spontaneously. I was awake as I rose up, as in one
    movement to my feet. I'm not sure how I did that, because I haven't been able to
    duplicate it by deliberate action.  

    When your oxygen level gets too low, many nerves "fire" at the same time, I like
    to think of it as an epileptic seizure, but medical people correct me saying that's a
    different kind of thing. Whatever. I guess I've never had an epileptic seizure. But
    when I had two different sleep studies, they informed me that I have between
    100 and 300 such events every night when I sleep, face up on my back. I wanted
    to have the physical charts that were drawn by the computer, a stack about two
    feet tall, but they told me they can't give it to me. It has to be shredded. I just
    wanted to see it and study it, but they looked sternly at me and said, "NO."

    This broad-spectrum shocking is stressful for your heart. Also, when you spend a
    lot of time with low oxygen levels, it's not good for nerves and internal organs.
    The presence of oxygen in the blood is very important for health, on several
    different levels. So sleep apnea effectively causes an acceleration of the aging
    process. And on a really bad day, it can be "curtains."
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Vladimir

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #10 on: July 31, 2012, 11:08:53 AM »
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  • Thank you for that wonderful post.

    (Yes, sleeping on the side can help, which is why in the sleep lab you have to sleep on your back so the technicians can see your apnea at its worst)

    I haven't experienced major problems with the C-PAP yet - and it's been over a month now, so hopefully things stay that way.

    I never knew the sleep apnea is so dangerous. What you write is scary!




    Offline Belloc

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 02:55:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Vladimir
    Does anyone here use a sleep apnea breathing machine?



    I had nasal surgery back in 12/08 and stil lusse my CPAP, despite that and losing 50+ lbs and exercise...

    though, need to get the pressure adjusted......still set on pre-weight loss/surgery levels........ :facepalm:
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Vladimir

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 09:08:41 AM »
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  • I was speaking with another person who has sleep apnea. He related to me that even if the oxygen level in your body goes down to 90% it can hospitalize you and be deadly. On his first sleep study, his oxygen levels dropped down to 80% (normal being 100%).

    He also related that he had a similar experience regarding the effectiveness of the breathing machine, although his is a fancier model that adjusts the air pressure as he sleeps instead of a continuous flow such as the C-PAP. The declining effectiveness is probably because our bodies, previously accustomed to having such low oxygen levels during sleep, get used to having a normal supply of oxygen. When the machine is first used the body is not yet accustomed, so we feel unusually rested.

    I still sleep without the machine occasionally, but knowing about how little it takes to be deadly is a scary thought. The other night I slept without the machine and my bed-mate told me that my snoring would crescendo before going silent and then my body would convulse to wake me up so that I could resume breathing.




    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Sleep Apnea
    « Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 12:45:45 PM »
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  • If you have sleep apnea, you can get a prescription from your doctor written to have oxygen administered to you while you sleep via a tank, or the oxygen generating machines. My dad has had this problem for many years. He has to use it while he's awake for other reasons as well, but the original reason he was placed on it was that he would stop breathing in his sleep, waking himself up from respiratory arrest.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline Jacob III

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    « Reply #14 on: January 14, 2013, 12:14:16 AM »
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  • I have severe OSA and will be getting a machine soon. I'm very much looking forward to what I'm told will be a much better night of sleep.
    Laudetur Iesus Christus!