Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Health and Nutrition => Topic started by: Vladimir on March 26, 2012, 10:24:00 AM
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Please don't read this thread if you feel it will be an occassion of sin for you.
Although I realize that concupiscence (in this case, lust for carnal pleasure) must be fought on both a spiritual and physical front, I read the other day the words of Seneca saying that man's sɛҳuąƖ drive naturally seeks release.
Without going into too much detail (for my sake and for the sake of the readers), in brief I struggle quite violently, but periodically, with the vice of lust. The reason I bring up Seneca's quote is that I think that 90% of the time I don't seriously struggle with lustful desires in my daily life. For example, in one month I may go three weeks without having a serious temptation. Then maybe on one day of the fourth week I will be violently attacked by temptations against purity - many times I will fall into sin on these occasions. Even when in the midst of temptation, I have a certain disgust for sins of the flesh and I simply want to find some way of getting rid of the burning desire. As I am a male, this build-up of certain fluids would inevitably be released in a non-sinful manner at some point.
My question is: Are there any physical remedies to this problem? I don't think it can be "cured", since I am at an age where my body is being primed for reproduction. But are there any physical ways (diet, fasting, etc) that I can use to reduce these periodic temptations (that truly seem overwhelming when they do come).
Interestingly, I think that Providence has set up lust at my predominant passion. Looking back, I've been exposed to several very impure events in the past through no fault of my own, and they have increased my temptations even a decade after they occured. (Another reason not to send anyone to public school) After those events however, I've amassed plenty of sins that I have fallen into through my own fault.
This post is inspired by my most recent fall into sin. Looking back, what set it off was reading an impure book that was assigned for my English class.
I apologize for being frank.
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Take this from someone who knows what you are talking about:
fasting and prayer, fasting and prayer, fasting and prayer.......
Fasting, when done correctly and with the right attention, makes carnal passions wither. I cannot recommend this spiritual discipline highly enough. I would suggest talking to your spiritual adviser/confessor about a specific regimen for yourself. Don't forget that regular prayer must accompany your discipline. I, myself, pray the Benedictine Office as well as read a portion of the Rule everyday. This works for me.
The Fathers of the Church constantly talk about fasting and prayer as being the chief means for overcoming passions. I pray for your success.
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Vladimir-
I'm sorry you're going through these temptations. Many, if not most, men go through these challenges. May I suggest, you abstain from red meat, and see how this helps you? I've heard this from certain priests, and have had friends who were told to practice this as well with favorable results.
Other than that, take hope that these temptations can be overcome. I struggled with the same, and it is not fun; I can say that many things are within your control, and I failed in 'controlling the controllables', if you will. Occasions of sin were the worst.
Devotion to our Lady is a big help. I will say some prayers for you today.
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Good advice on this thread so far.
I would recommend:
Fasting -- It's really hard to be "carnal" while you're fasting. The masters of the spiritual life speak of lust as the "devil that can only be cast out by prayer and fasting".
Abstaining -- from red meat and perhaps other foods. Try to note what foods cause the most problems. Remember, we are what we eat.
Excercise/work -- When you're exhausted your body is less likely to control you or assert itself. When you're well-rested, on the other hand, your body is "ready for business" which can be a bad thing in situations as you describe.
Don't lay in bed if you can't sleep -- when you first become conscious in the morning, get up and start your day. Don't lay in bed too much before falling asleep at night, or laze around in bed after waking in the morning. I recall one saint in particular who said he was tempted sorely against purity when he was resting in bed during recovery from an illness.
Stay busy -- An idle mind is the devil's workshop.
Avoid impurity -- Avoid TV, movies, and other occasions of sin. The devil can most easily "use" what's in your memory to tempt you. Don't fill his arsenal.
Prayer -- stay close to Our Lady so you wouldn't want to disappoint her by sinning.
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The whole eating thing, definitely is a set up. I notice I'm always tempted after I over eat.
Loose talk is the same way.
Also exercise. I'm always tempted if I don't.
Not dwelling on thoughts is really important. Training your eyes. It's amazing it can be done, but it can. Once you see it though, what can you do, but not dwell on it.
It's weird, but I think my "subconscious" kind of works on me too, without my realizing it. Movies are like that. Once I find I've been "conned," all I can do is start praying :laugh1:
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The "power of example" helps me.
A lot of old movies kind of deal with this theme. Not so much total purity as it is the idea that one little indiscretion can have such tragic consequences. "Mata Hari," "The Devil is a Woman" (I know that title is too much, but it is a very good movie) and "The Loves of Carmen." "Mata Hari" is the most risque, primarily because of the opening scene. "Loves of Carmen" if I recall correctly, is pretty darn clean! "The Devil is a Woman," one movie I often think of when I'm tempted, shows how strong good men can be so quickly enslaved and so profoundly corrupted by lust, in such a short time.
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Vladimir-
I'm sorry you're going through these temptations. Many, if not most, men go through these challenges. May I suggest, you abstain from red meat, and see how this helps you? I've heard this from certain priests, and have had friends who were told to practice this as well with favorable results.
Other than that, take hope that these temptations can be overcome. I struggled with the same, and it is not fun; I can say that many things are within your control, and I failed in 'controlling the controllables', if you will. Occasions of sin were the worst.
Devotion to our Lady is a big help. I will say some prayers for you today.
Absolute truth. The three-legged chair if I may: Prayer, Fasting, devotion to the Blessed Mother.
Fostering a healthy devotion to St. Joseph, the perfect model of male purity, would help as well I'm sure.
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Vladimir-
I'm sorry you're going through these temptations. Many, if not most, men go through these challenges. May I suggest, you abstain from red meat, and see how this helps you? I've heard this from certain priests, and have had friends who were told to practice this as well with favorable results.
Other than that, take hope that these temptations can be overcome. I struggled with the same, and it is not fun; I can say that many things are within your control, and I failed in 'controlling the controllables', if you will. Occasions of sin were the worst.
Devotion to our Lady is a big help. I will say some prayers for you today.
Absolute truth. The three-legged chair if I may: Prayer, Fasting, devotion to the Blessed Mother.
Fostering a healthy devotion to St. Joseph, the perfect model of male purity, would help as well I'm sure.
Meant three-legged stool, not chair. Duh :facepalm:
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Good advice on this thread so far.
I would recommend:
Fasting -- It's really hard to be "carnal" while you're fasting. The masters of the spiritual life speak of lust as the "devil that can only be cast out by prayer and fasting".
Abstaining -- from red meat and perhaps other foods. Try to note what foods cause the most problems. Remember, we are what we eat.
Excercise/work -- When you're exhausted your body is less likely to control you or assert itself. When you're well-rested, on the other hand, your body is "ready for business" which can be a bad thing in situations as you describe.
Don't lay in bed if you can't sleep -- when you first become conscious in the morning, get up and start your day. Don't lay in bed too much before falling asleep at night, or laze around in bed after waking in the morning. I recall one saint in particular who said he was tempted sorely against purity when he was resting in bed during recovery from an illness.
Stay busy -- An idle mind is the devil's workshop.
Avoid impurity -- Avoid TV, movies, and other occasions of sin. The devil can most easily "use" what's in your memory to tempt you. Don't fill his arsenal.
Prayer -- stay close to Our Lady so you wouldn't want to disappoint her by sinning.
Thank you everyone for the advice.
I'll have to watch my diet, even though it isn't too red meat intensive at present anyhow. I know that it would be a delusion to think that simply changing my diet would get rid of the lust completely since it must be fought on both spiritual and physical side.
I am amaze by the quote that Matthew gave from that saint about being tempted against purity when recovering from illness - this is my exact experience. Whenever I am ill and bed-ridden, temptations against purity are always at hand.
My last source of occassions of sin seems to be the Internet. I go on daily usually, but I need to start only going on when there are other people around.
(I don't watch T.V.)
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Concerning trying not look at girls:
Saint Alphonsus Liguori recommended the practice of the three Hail Marys.
Find out about this Devotion and do it in the morning and at night, it is really helpful for Purity.
It can even be done whilst lying on the floor, in utter humility.
We can pray the Rosary to be granted Purity.
Also, we can wear the cord of Saint Philomena.
We can pray to various Saints for Purity.
Particularly, we could pray to Our Lady and to Saint Joseph about this.
Also, we can pray to Saint Philomena and many other Virgins who have been canonized.
We can also have Purity as an intention for some of our Masses.
And we can ask a Priest to say Mass for this intention for us.
We must have an absolute will to avoid the sins of impure thoughts, lust of the eyes, etc.
If we are sincerely determined to avoid these mortal sins, it is easier to gain the graces to avoid them.
The resolution must be absolute on our part.
Among the most difficult sins for men to avoid are the sins of the flesh.
We can meditate on the fact that if we give way to impure thoughts or forbidden glances, we are hurting Our Lord.
If we consider that our impure thoughts may add to the Sufferings Our Lord underwent in the Crowning of Thorns, we may feel too upset, owing to love of Our Lord, to think the evil thoughts.
I am not certain, but possibly I may have read somewhere that there is a connection between sinful thoughts and the Crowning of Thorns.
So this may cause us to feel shame which can stop us.
None of us want to hurt Our Lord.
Also, we must just avoid immodest girls.
It is playing with fire to have anything to do with them.
Girls can be very, very tempting.
We must have an absolute determination not to sin, by looking at them.
We can be punished by God for keeping bad company, by God allowing us to fall.
Saint Francis of Assisi only had an indistinct picture of what some women he gave spiritual direction to, even looked like.
The reason for this is that Saint Francis did not look directly at women, even when he was talking to them.
This is something which really helps in the fight to banish lustful thoughts.
Moral Theologians used to talk about forbidden glances.
We should not even look unnecessarily at women.
If a man does not see what tempts him, the temptation loses its strength.
This was one of the ways by which Saint Francis of Assisi won his Glorious Crown in Heaven.
Saint Francis did not look directly at women even when he was talking to them.
He gave spiritual advice to certain women, but he did not even know exactly what they looked like.
If I recall correctly, I was told that Pope Saint Pius X said that Saint Francis of Assisi was the most Christ like man who ever lived.
Our Lady of Fatima made it known that more souls go to Hell for sins of the flesh than any for other reason.
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Good comments Matthew:
Good advice on this thread so far.
I would recommend:
Fasting -- It's really hard to be "carnal" while you're fasting. The masters of the spiritual life speak of lust as the "devil that can only be cast out by prayer and fasting".
This is true, but fasting is a spiritual act, and you should not look to it as a solution to physical problems. Otherwise you can just as well take some kind of medication that suppresses your hormones, which I would argue is immoral.
Abstaining -- from red meat and perhaps other foods. Try to note what foods cause the most problems. Remember, we are what we eat.
This is right. All food is a drug. Your gut is not a complete barrier and everything you eat that was once alive contains substances which affect your brain, your hormones, everything. Red meat naturally contains a lot of hormones, but farmed and slaughtered meat often contains increased amounts (including precursors to testosterone, which is the main thing that you are experiencing surges of) due to the stress the animal experiences before death. Limit that, and increase your fruit and vegetable intake in its place and you will have a clearer head and stronger will to overcome your weaknesses.
Excercise/work -- When you're exhausted your body is less likely to control you or assert itself. When you're well-rested, on the other hand, your body is "ready for business" which can be a bad thing in situations as you describe.
Yes, but when you are tired, you will lack self control. Keeping busy is the key, and removing or avoiding the situations, people and items that lead you to sin. This of course you mention later.
Don't lay in bed if you can't sleep -- when you first become conscious in the morning, get up and start your day. Don't lay in bed too much before falling asleep at night, or laze around in bed after waking in the morning. I recall one saint in particular who said he was tempted sorely against purity when he was resting in bed during recovery from an illness.
Right, but I think the thing will be to identify those things that cause you to sin, and remove them. Don't look back, or you turn into a pillar of salt.
Stay busy -- An idle mind is the devil's workshop.
Avoid impurity -- Avoid TV, movies, and other occasions of sin. The devil can most easily "use" what's in your memory to tempt you. Don't fill his arsenal.
Prayer -- stay close to Our Lady so you wouldn't want to disappoint her by sinning.
I would also suggest taking on worthy projects that will keep you preoccupied and away from occasions of sin, particularly if those projects involve you being in the company of others. You basically have to distract yourself in a good way, and remove the bad distractions.
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Take this from someone who knows what you are talking about:
fasting and prayer, fasting and prayer, fasting and prayer.......
Fasting, when done correctly and with the right attention, makes carnal passions wither. I cannot recommend this spiritual discipline highly enough. I would suggest talking to your spiritual adviser/confessor about a specific regimen for yourself. Don't forget that regular prayer must accompany your discipline. I, myself, pray the Benedictine Office as well as read a portion of the Rule everyday. This works for me.
The Fathers of the Church constantly talk about fasting and prayer as being the chief means for overcoming passions. I pray for your success.
Yes, fasting AND prayer are required.
One without the other does not work.
Or Lord gave this command to defeat these types of demons in the Bible.
If you do not persevere in fasting and prayer, you will never be free.
Make sure you FEEL physical hunger a couple times throughout the day.
And that is the best time to pray too.
Note: Do not fast too rigorously, or it can excite other nervous conditions, such as anxiety and scrupulosity.
Also, you rprayer should be spaced throughout the day, jsut as your fasting is a constant penence.
I recommend:
1) Morning prayer upon waking (2-3 minutes asking for deliverence from this temptation)
2) Angelus at noon
3) Rosary before dinner
4) Evening prayer which concludes with a prayer to St. Michael the Archangel for this protection (i.e., When the devil sees you are committed and making progress, he will try to attack you in your dreams; he will want not only to provoke you to a solitary sin, but failing this, will try to get you to believe -or at least question- whether you have consented to impure thoughts. He knows that if he can trick you into believing you consented, you will be depressed, and your resolve can whither at that point).
If the devil succeeds into tricking you into doubting your state of grace, you must double or triple your prayer, and be sure to maintain your fasting (and keep extra special custody of the eyes).
Receive communion asap, which will re-strengthen you (or confession, if need be too).
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It's not just red meat, it's protein generally.
If you go to a largely plant based diet (consider the vegetarian diet of the monks on Mt. Athos, or the wilderness hermits who ate honey) you will find a lowering of lustful urge.
High protein in any form, including nuts and eggs (particularly the yolks), causes spikes in luteinizing hormone (LH) production. This is a fact. There is an inaccurate notion that *testosterone* itself cause the urge, it does not, as anyone who has taken testosterone supplements (even at low levels) will tell you.
Even beware *real* butter (which is fermented, unfermented butter is not a problem)
Short ice baths or shows are a temporary solution and actually counterproductive and this will cause a later extreme spike in LH and FSH (Follicle stimulating Hormone).
Cholesterol is a precursor to all these hormones (including test, but that's beside the point) and necessary for their production. It helps to keep cholesterol down to achieve this, but you will notice lowered overall energy, so it is important when you go to a plant based diet to learn the plant based foods that can give you your energy back, namely copious amounts of garlic, cinnamon in moderation.
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Anything cold helps. Cold shower, etc...
Obviously, exercise too.
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It makes sense that a lot of protein would cause these urges, now that I think about it, it makes perfect sense looking back at all the times I was tempted correlating with what I ate.
I would say the best things to eat in order to overcome these type of temptations would simply be to eat bread, vegetables, and honey, maybe some fruit too, although its a very low protein diet it was good enough for a lot of saints, especially the desert fathers who were masters of the ascetical practices.
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Give your mind over to spiritual concepts and ideas when you feel a lustful urge coming upon you.
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Anything cold helps. Cold shower, etc...
Obviously, exercise too.
the cold suggestion is a temporary solution that actually serves to raise hormone levels *later* which will return 'with a vengeance'
i would not recommend using cold for this.
hard work/exhaustion can indeed help though.
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I can only tell you what has helped me overcome these temptations in the past.
Praying the Rosary - Especially as I am trying to fall asleep. Normally I am tempted to impurity more at this time than others. By praying the Rosary as I fall asleep I can focus on the Mysteries of the Faith until I fall asleep.
Daily Mass - Unfortunately this is difficult for me now as I only attend the Latin Mass
Frequent Confession
Memorizing Scripture
Avoiding anything that comes close to an occasion of sin. Mostly this is media and people.
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the cold suggestion is a temporary solution that actually serves to raise hormone levels *later* which will return 'with a vengeance'
i would not recommend using cold for this.
hard work/exhaustion can indeed help though.
This is very interesting because I have been told by at least 3 confessors in the past to take cold showers or to turn the water on cold towards the end of the shower. I can't say I distinctly remember being more tempted later on after taking a cold shower, but I can recall a few times where it seemed like it did get worse after the shower. I found a good penance is to walk around barefoot on gravel or outside in your yard where the ground is rough while praying the rosary or some other prayers.
But the same confessor also told me hard work/exhaustion is very effective and said that we should tire ourselves out everyday to avoid these temptations, so that is definitely solid advice.
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Cold works for me. Also, meat gets me going. It's weird though, egg whites don't seem to have the same effect. Exercise definitely blows off steam, but it works both ways. On the one hand, I'm very tempted to over eat if I don't exercise, which automatically tempts me to entertain lustful thoughts. (definite link there!) :laugh1: On the other hand, if I exercise intensely, on a regular basis. I mean if I really step it up, then I get these "super man" bouts of temptation. :laugh1: I don't know if that's hormones, pride or just good blood flow, but it is real! Maybe it's just one more of God's ways of keeping us humble.
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I took cold showers for a while, but it didn't really seem to help - I'm talking about freezing water, even in the middle of winter.
Also, my health no longer permits me to take cold showers, since it's really easy to catch a cold that way.
Memorizing scriptures and works by the Saints seems like a very good idea that I haven't thought of previous to this. Thank you.
In The Way of a Pilgrim there's a story about an old soldier who had a problem with alchohol and he met a hermit who told him to read chapter of the Gospels everytime he felt the temptation and if it didn't go away, read another chapter, etc until it did. After a while, he was able to quit alchohol, and every day he read one of the Gospels, or if he was unable, he had someone read it for him .
This is a very good idea.