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Author Topic: Morality of CBD Oil?  (Read 1496 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: Morality of CBD Oil?
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2021, 09:24:30 PM »
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  • With respect to the effect: You can use as well as misuse alcohol, and you can use as well as misuse cannabis.

    Please.  Who do you think you're talking to here??  Can I use and misuse crack too??
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Morality of CBD Oil?
    « Reply #46 on: May 09, 2021, 09:32:42 PM »
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  • Please.  Who do you think you're talking to here??  Can I use and misuse crack too??

    In the case of alcohol and cannabis, I know of useful and morally permitted uses. In the case of crack I wouldn't know of any useful use.

    Didn't you open this thread to tell us about the use of cannabis for pain-relieving?
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Morality of CBD Oil?
    « Reply #47 on: May 09, 2021, 09:34:14 PM »
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  • @Sean

    What about opium?
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Morality of CBD Oil?
    « Reply #48 on: May 09, 2021, 10:35:20 PM »
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  • Sophistry:

    Your example presumes dope and beer have the same effect.

    They don’t   :facepalm:
    .
    I'm kind of reaching here in general because I don't really know what effect marijuana has on people, but I was specifically objecting to a principle that Fr. Scott laid down, which I think is inaccurate. He said,
    .

    Quote
    The use of most drugs is complicated by the fact that they are illegal. This also signifies the will of the user to break the law, an offense against social justice. This compounds the sin.

    .
    This is a brief statement of a principle, so maybe there is more to this than he is saying explicitly, but I find it a bit of a stretch to say, in general, that any violation of the law is a sinful offense against social justice. If it were, that would mean that it would be a sin to drink a glass of wine during the 1920s, which I don't think anyone would seriously maintain.
    .
    One problem I have with anti-drug legislation is that it is not traditional in any sense, but the very concept is a modern creation of socialist governments. It was unheard-of in Catholic times for there to be any law against what substances you could consume based on their narcotic effects. Catholic governments never considered such things the business of the government at all.
    .
    On the other hand, laws against alcohol (and coffee, too, apparently) have historically been the sole province of eastern despotism, but such things have never been known in Christendom.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Morality of CBD Oil?
    « Reply #49 on: May 09, 2021, 11:19:59 PM »
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  • To clarify, I am not defending the use of narcotics. I am attacking the claim of modern socialist governments to have the authority to command private citizens not to consume various substances based on their narcotic effects, even in the privacy of their own homes. Such a claim has no philosophical basis nor historical precedent that I am aware of, apart from Islamic tyrannies that have banned the use of wine and in some cases even coffee too. If we're going to say the government has the right to tell people what they can eat or drink in their own home because Islamic societies have always done so, well, that's a pretty strange argument.
    .

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    Sean:
    Please.  Who do you think you're talking to here??  Can I use and misuse crack too??
    .
    Coca-Cola used to contain cocaine. That's what the Coca is short for. But that was before socialism. I've never heard of any moralist saying it was a sin to drink a Coke.
    .

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    Struthio:
    What about opium?

    .
    The government never got involved in such things before 20th century socialism. Ever read the stories of Sherlock Holmes? Not a Catholic country, but it was a government that was run on traditional principles before the advent of socialism. Sherlock Holmes in the stories consumes cocaine and opium, which he was able to buy over the counter at the local drug store. The idea of the government forbidding such a thing was unheard-of anywhere in the world before the 20th century.
    .
    Come on, the government can tell people they can't walk through the woods and eat a particular species of mushroom because it has hallucinogenic effects? Obviously it would be sinful to take a hallucinogen, but the government can forbid people to pick a mushroom and eat it? Such a thing is unknown in human history before the 20th century, apart from (as I said above) eastern despotism.
    .
    What about raw milk? That's a controlled substance, too. So is it a sin to drink raw milk just because the government bans that too? What do you think St. Thomas Aquinas would say to such a thing? He'd probably have a brain hemorrhage.


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Morality of CBD Oil?
    « Reply #50 on: May 09, 2021, 11:30:56 PM »
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  • @Yeti

    To clarify, I asked Sean "what about opium?", because I think opium can be useful and morally acceptable, given appropriate circuмstance.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Morality of CBD Oil?
    « Reply #51 on: May 10, 2021, 02:12:26 AM »
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  • Fr. Doran quotes the first part of Jone, where he says that using small amounts occasionally constitutes venial sins ... without sufficient reason, but then conveniently leaves out the second part, where it states that the small amounts can be used occasionally without sin for relatively light reasons, like calming the nerves.

    With regard to marijuana, that "microdosing" thing reportedly gives you the good benefits such as relief of anxiety, lifting of spirits, etc. ... without impairing reason or judgment.  I don't see how that would be a sin at all ... assuming that it's legal where you're at and doesn't put your job at risk.  Recall that the chief reason why it can be sinful is due to the impairment of reason, so if that's taken off the table, I'm not seeing the principle whereby it would be inherently sinful.

    As Fr. Scott wrote it up, even taking one hit off a joint so that it doesn't impair reason would constitute a mortal sin ... unless used for medical reasons. Nothing about his explanation makes sense except for the part that everyone agrees on, where it's a grave sin to use it to the extent of significantly impairing the use of reason ... absent a grave circuмstance such as severe pain, etc.

    I mean, Fr. Scott discredits his narrative right out of the gate by claiming that "The old text books [on moral theology] do not speak of this new problem of the modern world."  Really, drugs didn't exist until the modern world?  They've been around since the beginning of recorded history.  And the theology books did in fact deal with it.  Did he even bother to casually leaf through a couple of them?  We already have references to Jone and Merkelbach, and I bet lots of moral theologians discussed the issue.  Again, drugs are NOT NEW.

    Then this is also a false statement:  "All the other effects, such as relaxation, come as a consequence of this “high,” or unreal euphoria."  This is demonstrably false.  Relaxation can be achieved with SMALL doses long before there's a high.  This "high" comes about from dosing higher.  If anything it's the opposite, that the "high" comes from extending the effects to large doses, from "excess relaxation".  I see absolutely zero reason to distinguish the use of a small amount of marijuana from a relatively small amount of alcohol, where it gets you to relax and lifts your spirits.  Sacred Scripture speaks of wine that it "brings joy to the hear of man." (Psalm 103).  So is this joy the consequence of the "high"?  No, the only difference between alcohol and marijuana is the legality.  It's increasingly becoming legal and the legality of alcohol vs. the illegality of marijuana is completely arbitrary, and historically it was engineered by Rockefeller for his oil interests.
    Good points.

    I was thinking the same thing -- just for starters, how can Fr. Scott speak with authority on where the relaxation comes from? How many drugs has he used, or has he even studied drugs and their effects to any degree at all? Having 6 years of solid seminary training makes a solid priest -- but not much of a drug expert. I know the Trad seminary I attended would confer *zero* knowledge about drugs, except for some very general moral principles in Moral Theology.

    I'm pretty sure he's wrong about that. Just like with alcohol, the "buzz" which permits you to be happy and still retain reason is basically a mini-high. Keep drinking (or smoking) and eventually you will be dancing around with a lampshade on your head, temporarily devoid of the use of reason.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Morality of CBD Oil?
    « Reply #52 on: May 10, 2021, 02:20:25 AM »
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  • Why do only wiccans and Pachamama earth-worshippers promote, sell, and use CBD oil? Is it because it's evil, or because they're the only ones willing to use it?

    Let's take an example from a completely different, non-controversial area: Permaculture.

    Permaculture is 100% good. It's basically man cultivating plants and trees more in line with God's nature -- with variety, interdependent relationships, etc. as opposed to "monoculture" which involves clearing land down to nothing, planting just ONE crop, and to ensure that a single pest doesn't decimate the crop, you spray pesticides. And since there is no source of nutrients in such a scheme, you need to apply chemical fertilizers as well.

    Permaculture is about using natural processes: mulch, catching rainwater and making it "stick around awhile" rather than run off quickly, local/natural sources of mulch and compost, planting companion plants, using beneficial insects, and basically imitating God's nature as much as possible. I studied Permaculture on my own for a couple years, and I've practiced some of it myself. You can literally green deserts with the completely natural techniques offered by Permaculture. In short, it's 100% good.

    BUT if you went to a Permaculture gathering, I bet you'd find a low % of Catholics. A lot of atheists/agnostics, wiccans, protestants, etc.

    My point: Catholics often get things wrong in the natural realm. I still don't know why. But I often have to choose between finding friends with whom I can talk about the Faith, and friends who understand the way the world works -- including all the real cօռspιʀαcιҽs going on in the world today.

    CathInfo is the thin sliver of overlap between "Has the truth about supernature" and "Has the truth about nature". But after 15 years of running this forum, look at how relatively tiny it still is. And that's English-speaking Catholics *worldwide*. A bunch of the traffic you see on CathInfo is not from the USA.
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