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Author Topic: Monkey Pox and Revelation 16:2?  (Read 11873 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: Monkey Pox and Revelation 16:2?
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2022, 10:05:59 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 23, 2022, 09:57:19 PM
Sure, St Augustine wouldnt know the historical nature of the Church, as we do.  We have 1,900 years of history to look back on.

But when speaking of FUTURE events, from a spiritual and temporal view, I’d trust the Church Fathers (who learned from the Apostles) and the Middle Age saints way more than Kramer. 

Who knows the Apocalyose better than St John?  What Church Fathers were disciples of St John?  St Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp.  There’s no way these holy men didn’t know as much about future events as anyone in history.  St John would’ve told them everything that God would allow. 

As a whole, the Church Fathers wrote volumes and volumes on the Apocalypse alone.  They discussed the spiritual aspects but also political events.
Trusting in the knowledge of Frs. Kramer or Berry, who studied the Apocalypse, collectively, for 60 years, is not without prudence. You act as though they were just pulling this stuff out of their rear-ends.

I could be trying to interpret things myself here, but I'm not. I'm basing it on two theologians who are far more knowledgeable about Apocalyptic literature than either of us. And yet, what I'm getting from you is, that because I'm not trying to piece together what the Fathers and Doctors said myself, and not relying upon the myriad of private prophecies, what I've said is of no real value as to whether Lad is onto something about Apoc. 16:2 or the advent of the Antichrist.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Monkey Pox and Revelation 16:2?
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2022, 09:00:40 AM »
Quote
You act as though they were just pulling this stuff out of their rear-ends.
Kramer isn't inventing stuff but he is ignoring/editing 1,000 years of saints/thelogians/Doctors of the Church/etc.  This is absolutely crazy.  Talk about protestant/revolutionary.  Berry (1920s?) is much earlier than Kramer (1956), so i'd trust Berry more.

My point is, Kramer's 1950s book reason for ignoring 1,000 years of Church History (400s - 1400s) is nuts.  He sounds like a Modernist.  He wants to give an "ancient understanding" of the Apocalypse.

Only modern scholars and theologians and scripturists have searched more deeply into the writings of ancient Fathers and into the prophetical books and fragments of prophecies of the Old Testament. They have come nearer to the true meaning of the prophetical visions and words of the Apocalypse than the doctors and theologians of the Middle Ages.

Let's remember what Paul VI said when he created the new mass:

One ought not to think, however, that this revision of the Roman Missal has been improvident. The progress that the liturgical sciences has accomplished in the last four centuries has, without a doubt, prepared the way. After the Council of Trent, the study "of ancient manuscripts of the Vatican library and of others gathered elsewhere," as Our predecessor, St. Pius V, indicates in the Apostolic Constitution Quo primum, has greatly helped for the revision of the Roman Missal. Since then, however, more ancient liturgical sources have been discovered and published and at the same time liturgical formulas of the Oriental Church have become better known. Many wish that the riches, both doctrinal and spiritual, might not be hidden in the darkness of the libraries, but on the contrary might be brought into the light to illumine and nourish the spirits and souls of Christians.

The modernists were alive and well in the 50s and were paving the way for V2.  People like Kramer who want to go "back to ancient times" are wrong, plain and simple.

Berry might be ok.
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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: Monkey Pox and Revelation 16:2?
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2022, 09:24:03 AM »
Lord have mercy, I'm so tired of this trad pontificating about every little iota.

Now Fr. Kramer is suspect for Modernism too? Give me a break. :facepalm:
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Monkey Pox and Revelation 16:2?
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2022, 09:52:17 AM »
Ignoring 1,000+ years of Church history is not a small iota.
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Offline EWPJ

Re: Monkey Pox and Revelation 16:2?
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2022, 10:14:14 AM »
Pax Vobis has pretty much already laid everything out that I was going to say and understands what The Church has taught on these matters.  Thanks Pax. 

To add though, we have to understand that there can be TYPES of certain things throughout history and there has been.  I believe V2 was a TYPE of The Great Apostasy but NOT The Great Apostasy (this will come after Antichrist comes into power and almost the whole world is Catholic), just like I think Convid Crackcines are a TYPE of the Mark of the Beast but not THE Mark of the Beast (which will come after Antichrist conquers most of the world or at around the same time.)

As Pax laid out this is the most consistent with Church Fathers and Church Teaching and there have been a lot of heretics (prots) and modernists throughout history who have tried to alter this to fit their interpretations.  
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