The point is that the jab hasn't been fully forced in most of the world to work. Italy and Australia are the exceptions. In France, if I'm not mistaken, only medical workers were forced. In Spain, Sweden, and other European countries never forced anyone to get vaccinated. Sure, they put restrictions on traveling or entering restaurants, cinemas, etc. But nothing to force him to work. And of course, in no country, not even the harshest, were the unvaccinated prohibited from carrying out economic transactions, nor were they prohibited from accessing supermarkets, for example.

In Spain it hasn't even been legal for a company to force its workers to be vaccinated. Globalism hasn't yet been able to completely eliminate national sovereignty, the process is well advanced, but not completed.

So I agree with Pax Vobis.

More food for thought on it being the last days, recall why God sent the Deluge and what Our Lord said would be a major sign of His return

And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [38] For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noe entered into the ark, [39] And they knew not till the flood came, and took them all away; so also shall the coming of the Son of man be. - Matt. 24:37-39

And God seeing that the wickedness of men was great on the earth, and that all the thought of their heart was bent upon evil at all times, It repented him that he had made man on the earth. And being touched inwardly with sorrow of heart, [7] He said: I will destroy man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth - Gen. 6:5-7

I think of this sign every single time I see a fag flag flying to mock God.

And the bow shall be in the clouds, and I shall see it, and shall remember the everlasting covenant, that was made between God and every living soul of all flesh which is upon the earth. - Gen.9:16

We're there. These are the times like those of Noe, but arguably worse.

While the Fathers and Saints have predicted an age of peace, who is to say that it precedes Antichrist? Could it not happen after his death simultaneous with the conversion of the Jєωs? Scripture promises no age of peace except that which comes after Antichrist is defeated. We aren't promised any of those things (the Great Monarch, etc) except what has been revealed in Scripture, sure, many are approved by the Church, but there's no guarantee they will come to pass. Only what is in Scripture is guaranteed. I honestly believe fulfillment of private prophecy has a lot to do with the faithful following through with God's will (the prophecies of St. Vincent Ferrer, Angel of the Apocalypse, and the conversion which averted the end times in his day)

The aforementioned commentators (Kramer and Berry, the ones I am most familiar with) note that there will even be a last effort, after Antichrist (Apoc. 19:19-20, fall of Antichrist; "the Beast"), of Satan to try and destroy the Church just before Our Lord comes, as found in Apoc. 20:7-10:

And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go forth, and seduce the nations, which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [8] And they came upon the breadth of the earth, and encompassed the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. [9] And there came down fire from God out of heaven, and devoured them; and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast [10] And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Berry:

Commentary, Apoc. Chapter X, verse 11 (p. 110):
The angel commands St. John to announce to all the prophecy communicated to him concerning the reign of Antichrist, the subsequent triumph of the Church, and the final persecution under Gog and Magog.

Part III Chapter XX (p. 190):
After the defeat of Antichrist the Gentile nations will return to the Church and the Jєωs will enter her fold. Then shall be fulfilled the words of Christ: ''There shall be one fold and one shepherd.'" Unfortunately sin and evil will not have entirely disappeared, the good and the bad will still be mingled in the Church, although the good shall predominate. After many centuries, symbolized by a thousand years, faith will diminish and charity grow cold as a result of the long peace and security enjoyed by the Church. Then Satan, unchained for a short time, will seduce many nations (Gog and Magog) to make war on the Church and persecute the faithful. These apostate nations shall be promptly overwhelmed with a deluge of fire and the Church will come forth again triumphant.

Ch. XX commentary (p. 199-200):
7, 8. At the close of the period, symbolized by a thousand years, Satan will be loosed again for a short time during which he will seduce many nations. From the four quarters of the earth he will assemble an army, numerous as the sands of the sea, to war against the Church,—the camp of the saints. Jerusalem the beloved, then the city of the Popes, will be the chief point of attack; but God will intervene in its defense by raining down fire upon the besieging hosts.
9. These hostile nations are symbolized as Gog and Magog,'—names made famous by the prophecy of Ezechiel in which their invasion and terrible destruction by fire is described at length.

This doesn't conflict with an age of peace after Antichrist (6th age), where many will convert, followed by a final tumult in which the world is destroyed by fire (Apoc. 20:9 above; end of the 6th age).

Kramer:

Synopsis, Book II (p. 24):
Chapter XX. relates the expulsion of Satan from the world for 1,000 years, the last uprising against the Church by Gog and Magog and the Last Judgment.

2 The Last War of Gog and Magog, Verse 7 (p. 456):
A by-product of the thousand years of peace will be lukewarmness and indifference in the practice of religion. During times of peace and prosperity, evils have sometimes arisen within the Church. There will always be the good and bad in the world as Isaias foretells (LXV. 2 0 ) , and the number of wicked shall grow larger as time goes on. These THOUSAND YEARS are stated in round numbers to denote a period of peace for the Church from Antichrist till the rise of Gog and Magog, and they may be two thousand or several thousand. According to the words of Isaias ( LXV. 2 0 ), a period of only ONE thousand years would seem far too short to bring into actuality in a literal sense what is promised there. Near paradisiac conditions will prevail. Men will live to a great age; the danger to grow lax in the service of God and loyalty to the Church will appear, and evils will multiply as before the Reformation; finally Satan shall be released from his prison to punish the wicked.

(p. 460):
St. John leaves no doubt in his revelation that the THOUSAND YEARS shall follow Antichrist, and at the end of that time Gog shall some up against the Church.

Based on their commentary, which could be wrong, of course, the age of peace promised by Our Lady (6th age) is more likely that same peace spoken of in the Apocalypse to follow the Antichrist (5th age). Given the state of the world today, we are either in the times preceding Antichrist (which I think is most likely) or we are reaching the last battle of Gog and Magog (end of 6th age) after Antichrist (whose identity remains unclear, sorry MHFM, but it's not JPII ).

Given we have not seen a global triumph of the Church or a significant age of peace, it's very clear that we are building up to Antichrist at the end of the 5th age. So, I am in agreement with you, Pax, that there will be these end-of-age cataclysms, but I disagree that the Antichrist will wait til the end of the 6th age given what is revealed in the Apocalypse as expounded by both Fr. Berry and Fr. Kramer here.

But what happens in the 7th age, then?  My opinion is you're combining too many events together, leaving things out.  You're combining Christ's social Kingship with Mary's peace of Fatima.  Our Lady promised "a certain period of peace" will be granted to the world, which implies that danger is just around the corner (i.e. antichrist).  This fits in with many prophecies and also the Church Fathers say that Christ will be victorious over antichrist (which will cause the joos to convert); it will not be Our Lady's victory.

The 7th age, from my understanding, would constitute the Heavenly Jerusalem where Christ reigns eternally after the Last Judgment. As I said, the Jєωιѕн conversion does come after Antichrist is dead during the "1000 years" before the Last Judgment.

Which would, given what I cited from those two commentaries, make the end of the 5th age coincide with that of Antichrist. Then the 6th age of peace, which ends with the final battle of Gog and Magog, followed by the eternal 7th age of Christ's victory.

But, agree to disagree.

I get the feeling people on here may be in unanimous agreement that a "beast system" that will interface or be centralized with the mark (when ready for full implementation), is already in beta test in our world. At the very least no one can deny this.

Undeniably. Its construction has become more and more overt in the past decade or so.

DL, aren’t you a covert?  The “1,000 years” idea, also known as millenialism is condemned.  It’s a Protestant creation.

No, I'm not preaching millenialism. Did you read anything I wrote or did you just glean over it because you've been studying this for a while and fancy yourself an expert? I literally just quoted two pre-Vatican II, orthodox, Catholic commentators who talk about the Thousand years:

and the number of wicked shall grow larger as time goes on. These THOUSAND YEARS are stated in round numbers to denote a period of peace for the Church from Antichrist till the rise of Gog and Magog, and they may be two thousand or several thousand. According to the words of Isaias ( LXV. 2 0 ), a period of only ONE thousand years would seem far too short to bring into actuality in a literal sense what is promised there.

After many centuries, symbolized by a thousand years, faith will diminish and charity grow cold as a result of the long peace and security enjoyed by the Church.

I highly suggest you get some books which explain what the Church Farhers say.  They are part of Tradition, of Apostolic knowledge, which is on par with Scripture.  Some of what you believe is contrary to Tradition.

What part of it? You mistakenly believing that I was pushing millennialism? I didn't even state any length of years for either the age preceding the Antichrist or the age of peace. And stating that the 7th age is the eternal reign of Christ and the blessed after the Last Judgment is not millenialism.
And as for books, I'm drawing from two very solid exegeses on the Apocalypse from before Vatican II. Not to mention the collections afforded by the articles of Yves Dupont and the Christian Trumpet.

Ok, I misunderstood.


St Augustine has a different take than Berry/Kramer, FYI.

You're right, he does. Fr. Kramer states in a note after his Bibliography that he avoided relying so much on the Fathers since they tend toward the spiritual interpretation more than the literal.

The commentaries and interpretations of the great Doctors of the fourth and later centuries and of the theologians of the Middle Ages have been skipped, because they gave the interpretation of the Apocalypse a purely “spiritual” direction, even before St. Augustine. Only modern scholars and theologians and scripturists have searched more deeply into the writings of ancient Fathers and into the prophetical books and fragments of prophecies of the Old Testament. They have come nearer to the true meaning of the prophetical visions and words of the Apocalypse than the doctors and theologians of the Middle Ages.

I understand why he would say this, because of the larger selection of resources available to contemporary exegetes compared to the past. As well as the potential for us being "closer" to the unveiling of these prophecies given all that has occurred between the age of the Fathers, the Middle Ages and today. For example, the opening of the seals, in both Berry and Kramer, looks at the various heresies of the Church over time; something unknown to some of earlier Fathers who were either actively fighting those heresies at the time, or, that they would come later. Specifically the "opening of the Abyss" being associated, I believe in Kramer, with the Protestant Revolt and all that came of that over the past 500 years.

This isn't me trying to dismiss the insights of the Fathers and Doctors, but, when it comes to the Apocalypse, it seems more prudent to take a more recent (but thoroughly orthodox) commentary given all that has occurred in Church history; especially in light of the Apocalypse being by-and-large a prophecy of the Church herself.