Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Health and Nutrition => Topic started by: Jacob III on February 18, 2013, 01:14:09 AM
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Have any other men been vegetarian in the past? I recently (4 or so weeks ago) became an omnivore again. I have noticed increased energy, enthusiasm, romantic desire as well as a new interest in physical fitness and outdoor activities. I have found it to be motivating as my wife is pregnant with baby #1 and I will become a father in August.
Has anyone else noticed these things?
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My question that is vegetarianism compatibile with Catholicism or Christianity in general?
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My question that is vegetarianism compatibile with Catholicism or Christianity in general?
I don't see anything in the Bible which prohibits not eating meat. Some people are vegetarians because of their concern for animal welfare.
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My question that is vegetarianism compatibile with Catholicism or Christianity in general?
I don't see anything in the Bible which prohibits not eating meat. Some people are vegetarians because of their concern for animal welfare.
Vegetarianism is incompatible with the Catholic faith. Only the Catholic faith qualifies as "Christianity in general". All other heretical sects are not Christian.
The sentiment expressed above that one may be a vegetarian out of "concern for animal welfare" is pagan as it places the welfare of animals on par with humans. It is disgusting that anyone who considers himself a Catholic would even consider such a motive for vegetarianism.
On the other hand, voluntarily abstaining from meat as a sacrifice to God is laudable and there are records of many saints who did so--but absolutely none of them were "vegetarians."
The difference between abstaining from meat and vegetarianism is very similar to the difference between the Christian voluntarily accepting martyrdom and the person who commits ѕυιcιdє. One action is laudable while the other action condemns.
Traditional Guy is correct that the Bible does not prohibit not eating meat. But the Bible does indeed prohibit actions based on motives that are contrary to the will of God.
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The one I know does it for health reasons.
I'd love to but it seems too costly for me to do it consistently.
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My question that is vegetarianism compatibile with Catholicism or Christianity in general?
I don't see anything in the Bible which prohibits not eating meat. Some people are vegetarians because of their concern for animal welfare.
Vegetarianism is incompatible with the Catholic faith. Only the Catholic faith qualifies as "Christianity in general". All other heretical sects are not Christian.
The sentiment expressed above that one may be a vegetarian out of "concern for animal welfare" is pagan as it places the welfare of animals on par with humans. It is disgusting that anyone who considers himself a Catholic would even consider such a motive for vegetarianism.
On the other hand, voluntarily abstaining from meat as a sacrifice to God is laudable and there are records of many saints who did so--but absolutely none of them were "vegetarians."
The difference between abstaining from meat and vegetarianism is very similar to the difference between the Christian voluntarily accepting martyrdom and the person who commits ѕυιcιdє. One action is laudable while the other action condemns.
Traditional Guy is correct that the Bible does not prohibit not eating meat. But the Bible does indeed prohibit actions based on motives that are contrary to the will of God.
Well I oppose abortion and contraception but I also have a soft spot for animals. I guess that makes me "anti-Christian" and "unmanly." Some people are vegetarians also because they notice an increased vitality and stamina as well when they don't eat meat.
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Many are vegetarians because they love animals. Know what? I LOVE Jesus, yet I eat Him.
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I believe we need animal protein to be in optimal health. Vegetables don't provide everything we need to take care of muscles and tissue. We're made to eat meat and vegetables and fruit and some grains. That's why it's a sacrifice, a big sacrifice, to abstain from meat for spiritual reasons.
A good book on this subject is "Nourishing Traditions" By Sally Fallon, Mary G. Enig.
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I have noticed increased energy, enthusiasm, romantic desire...
I realise that this thread refers to men, but if I may just say that what you have said here is precisely the reason why men in monastic orders refrain from eating meat, because it can rouse the senses, which is good for a married man but not for a monk.
Mrs Z said We're made to eat meat and vegetables and fruit and some grains.
I don't believe that God made us to eat meat. Genesis 1 [29-30] says
And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat: And to all beasts of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to all that move upon the earth, and wherein there is life, that they may have to feed upon. And it was so done.
It was after the fall, that man became weakened by sin that he felt the need of meat.
I believe we need animal protein to be in optimal health. Vegetables don't provide everything we need to take care of muscles and tissue.
I have never followed a vegetarian diet, but our diet contains far less meat than the average joe; we prefer vegetables and I feel better for it. It depends very much on the person and their activities I suppose. It is certainly not something to be dogmatic about. I don't believe we really need meat but that we just find it easier to eat what we are used to preparing and eating.
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My question that is vegetarianism compatibile with Catholicism or Christianity in general?
I don't see anything in the Bible which prohibits not eating meat. Some people are vegetarians because of their concern for animal welfare.
Animals are for the use of man. I can't abide cruelty to animals, but killing an animal to eat it is not necessarily cruel, though of course the killing could be done in a cruel manner.
Eskimos could not think that way. They could not survive without meat.
Animals have no rights, so nobody can put non-existent rights above the rights of men.
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I have noticed increased energy, enthusiasm, romantic desire...
I realise that this thread refers to men, but if I may just say that what you have said here is precisely the reason why men in monastic orders refrain from eating meat, because it can rouse the senses, which is good for a married man but not for a monk.
Exactly right.
It was after the fall, that man became weakened by sin that he felt the need of meat.
Yes, I believe it was, more specifically, after the Flood that God gave meat to men to eat. Prior to this, it was forbidden and men did not eat meat. That being said, what are the implications to this ? It seems to me that, if one's body worked as well as Noe's and those of his fathers did -- such that living for many centuries was not uncommon -- then one would certainly acquire sufficient nutrients from a vegetarian diet; they necessarily acquired these nutrients. In any case, that was a different age of the world and our bodies no longer work that way.
I don't believe we really need meat but that we just find it easier to eat what we are used to preparing and eating.
Speaking in the context of the lives of the laity, I think meat is good for the soul -- its acquisition, preparation, and consumption are now part and parcel with healthy social customs and the virtues proper to each sex.
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Animals have no rights
Animals have the right to be treated descently. They don't have to be inhumanely tortured as like what happens in factory farms and slaughterhouses.
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Animals have no rights.
Animals have the right to be treated decently. They don't have to be inhumanely tortured as like what happens in factory farms and slaughterhouses.
"inhumanely tortured" "slaughterhouses". That's very emotive language! You'r not an animal liberationist I hope.
No person in their right mind would dispute that animals should not be treated cruelly.
But rights belong only to human beings. It is a modern heresy to give to animals what belongs rightly only to human beings.
right - an abstract idea of that which is due to a person or governmental body by law or tradition or nature.
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"inhumanely tortured" "slaughterhouses". That's very emotive language! You'r not an animal liberationist I hope.
I support animals as pets if that is what you mean; I mean domesticated animals of course and I also have a disgust with animal cruelty.
And yes I meant exactly what I meant by saying that animals are inhumanely tortured at factory farms and slaughterhouses. That is one thing I can agree with PETA on.
By the way those same factory farms and monopolies have no problems with putting family farms out of business and turning farms into factories and farmers into assembly-line workers as that is the next step on the harmful process of industrialization. Wall Street has no problem with that of course.
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right - an abstract idea of that which is due to a person or governmental body by law or tradition or nature.
I am sure the Catholic Church would agree, considering they have no problems letting Mexicans cross the borders to fill up their pews. :wink:
Meanwhile the immigrants leave trash and debris all over the U.S.-Mexican border, the most polluted area on Earth, and that trash is then eaten by cows who then have to be "humanely" put down for swallowing the trash. Not to mention the immigrants slice dogs' throats to keep them quiet as they loot a person's property.
And let's not even mention the social costs to Americans here, who have to deal with crime, rape, murder, paying for these peoples' welfare, drugs, crime and drug cartels, etc. :wink:
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Ancient observance Carmelites are vegetarians. Many Saints were vegetarians - docuмented cases of men or women living only on plants and herbs.
A vegetarian in one who does not eat animal products. It does not have to be construed as a philosophy or a religion. One can love animals and treat them with kindness and respect as God's creatures without being construed as giving them rights or being unCatholic.
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And the reason that Carmelites have "eschewed" fleshmeat (so-to-speak) from their diet is precisely because it causes an increase in concupiscence of the flesh. I think the information is easily researchable.
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. One can love animals and treat them with kindness and respect as God's creatures without being construed as giving them rights or being unCatholic.
I perfectly agree with Mathieu here. Because T. G.20 said "inhumanely tortured" and" slaughterhouses" doesn't mean he's an animal liberationist. I've heard of many disgusting stories of the way people treat animals. It shows that they don't care twopence for God's wonderful creatures! :really-mad2:
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Animals don't have rights, but they don't need rights to be protected from being treated cruelly, since no human has the right to do so, and in the case of positively adopting a pet, it could be said that that man has a duty to reasonably accommodate the animal he has chosen to take care of.
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Re:the original question of health and vitality eating meat versus a 'vegetarian' diet.
It depends on how one is a vegetarian.
That is, if it is merely abstaining from meat, and not cultivating a healthy variety of the right foods, one can certainly lack the energy and vitality the OP mentioned.
Some vegetarians merely do not eat meat, and their vegetarianism is circuмscribed by not eating meat. I knew 2 girls in college who were vegetarians and obese(!). They fairly regularly attacked entire cheese pizzas.
If you just eat a bunch of starches, you will probably feel better when going to a meat inclusive omnivorous diet, because you could seriously lack several important nutrients from a starchy diet lacking in rich and leafy greens and fruits.
Heavy meat and starch eaters who go to a vegetarian diet rich in leafy greens, cruciferous and other plants, and fruits, and avoid starches and over-reliance on 'fake meat' products identical to a non-vegatarian diet will probably feel better as well.
The data is clear however that the typical American diet of meat, fats, starches and 5% vegetable matter (10% if you include white potatoes) absolutely correlates to a significantly shorter lifespan. So (correct) vegetarianism doesn't seem a bad health choice.
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I love Steaks. Man has a digestive system which is capable of eating both animals and vegetables. Thus, we were created to eat both. What we eat personally is up to us and good prudence.
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Well I oppose abortion and contraception but I also have a soft spot for animals. I guess that makes me "anti-Christian" and "unmanly." Some people are vegetarians also because they notice an increased vitality and stamina as well when they don't eat meat.
Not to derail the thread (I can't really comment on that as I am neither a man nor have I ever been vegetarian), but I did want to comment on this.
I simply cannot stand how it is considered by some to be "unmanly" when a guy has a soft spot for animals and shows it. Even at the university farm I work at, I know these guys care, but they refuse to admit it and will speak harshly about them, though they are given excellent care. It's the masculine thing to do, you see.
If I am called to marriage, I will never marry someone who doesn't care about animals. It is to me a tremendous sign of strength in a man or a woman to care about those weaker than they. I understand that not everybody likes animals, but if one cannot treat a lamb or calf with gentleness, or a horse with respect, I cannot help but feel that they will not treat their fellow men that way either, much less be a good father.
I am in animal science and I do not appreciate how animals are cared for on many of the larger operations. I don't believe that they are intentionally doing so to cause misery, but just because it is the economic thing to do does not mean it should be done. I don't believe that animals have rights, but we have an obligation to care for them well and that also means that we do not have a right to treat them poorly or cruelly.
I support eating meat but I feel that it is because of orginal sin that this happened. We would not have sheep and cattle and many other animals if they weren't consumed. If they are raised with care and slaughtered in a way to prevent suffering as much as possible, it is a good thing and we should not feel guilty about eating meat.
St. Francis would buy lambs destined for slaughter because he couldn't bear the thought. If one doesn't want to eat meat because they don't want to be responsible for killing animals, that is fine and is not anti-Catholic in the least. At the same time, it is perfectly fine to eat meat.
Isaias 40:11
He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather together the lambs with his arm, and shall take them up in his bosom, and he himself shall carry them that are with young.
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Inhumane slaughtering methods ruin the meat anyway because the fear of the animal releases bad-tasting hormones. It causes the meat to become tough and discolored with an off flavor.
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There is nothing wrong with making a choice not to eat meat, as long as one is not against it in principe. As has been clarified before, the permission to eat meat was given by God after the Flood, and this was because of the physical deterioration which had been gradually increasing. The first generations of men grew centuries old, and the age limit decreased until Moses, when it was stabilised at 120, and it has remained as such unto this day. It shows how people have become gradually weaker in the time after the Fall.
In the beginning, people did not eat animal flesh. But to claim as a principle that it is immoral to eat it today is to create a pseudo-morality which goes against an explicit and universal permission given by God to man, illicitly compromising Christian freedom. And some people become quite weakened if they completely stop consuming it, which is why Our Lord allowed it in the first place; to restore the decaying body.
Regarding love for animals; there are effeminate men who cannot stand them, which illustrates the fact that the claim that it is manly to be harsh towards them is nonsense. There have been hermits who became so holy that wild animals obeyed them, and they have never treated them badly. St. Jerome had a lion running around his monastery, St. Paul of Thebe was fed by ravens bringing him bread and had two lions dig his grave. When a freshly caught fish was given to St. Francis as a gift, he threw it back into the water, and he preached to birds who came to sing his eulogy at the moment when he had died. There are numerous other examples.
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...preached to birds who which came to sing...
I know, I know...
English is not my native tongue, so I have an excuse!
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By the way, the best meat comes from hunting or raising the animals yourself. I have to be really hungry to eat typical supermarket meat. If you can find a good butcher, that's good too.
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When I was growing up my dad instituted vegetarian periods according to the Rule of Saint Benedict. It was rough, and I wouldn't really recommend it, but it was meant to be for the glory of God.