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Author Topic: Intrauterine baptism?  (Read 3235 times)

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Offline Pelly

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Intrauterine baptism?
« on: March 14, 2013, 01:24:38 PM »
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  • Many are born with defects and due to this, die before they could be baptized, but the concern is children who die at birth. Are intrauterine baptisms valid? I'd ask it, otherwise the priest needs to act at childbirth.


    Offline TKGS

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 02:16:06 PM »
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  • Pelly,

    You ask a lot of questions that should be fairly easy to discover the answer by reading a good Catechism.  I would suggest obtaining a copy of The Catechism of the Council of Trent and even The Catechism Explained by Rev. Francis Spirago and edited by Rev. Richard Clark (Spirago-Clark).  It seems that you really need to learn the basics of the Faith.

    To answer your question, the answer is no.  Baptism cannot be performed before the birth of a child.  To follow up, the Church used to recommend instructing women in the correct method of baptizing babies in case there was a danger of death of a newborn infant.  Of course, this was at the time that childbirth was strictly a women's issue and midwives generally attended the births of children.  Today, when fathers (or other relatives) often attend a childbirth while a doctor actively receives the baby, everyone should know how to baptize in case it is necessary.

    When my third child was born, there was no immediate danger of death though baptism had to be delayed for about 3-1/2 weeks.  While at home, she stopped breathing for a lengthy period of time and was hospitalized for a time.  I ensured I had a cup of water on hand at all times in case baptism became necessary.  I almost did baptize her but delayed because, by the time I had the water ready, she had already become stable and breathing.  

    (For those who are getting ready to condemn me for waiting 3-1/2 weeks, please note that the Novus Ordo parish I was in would only baptize the last Sunday of the month and she was born during the first week of the month.  I didn't know any better at the time.)


    Offline Matthew

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 03:43:25 PM »
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  • 3 1/2 weeks is nothing in the Novus Ordo.

    I know a woman (who attends the Novus Ordo) who decided recently "I should have my daughter baptized" -- she's 1 year old.

    Another man I know married a Novus Ordo woman, and their 2nd child was baptized 6 or 7 months after the birth.

    These people obviously don't believe in the necessity of water baptism. What are they counting on for their child's eternal salvation, Baptism of Desire? That's not for children in Catholic families! Just because BoD and BoB exist, that doesn't mean they have any bearing on the average Catholic family!

    No!  As far as the average Catholic is concerned, water Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.
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    Offline Matto

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 04:03:06 PM »
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  • I think it is wrong to wait more than a couple of days to baptize a baby. Infants often die  without warning. We don't want any of our children in Limbo, we want them in Heaven.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 04:26:48 PM »
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  • At the time I was a newborn, it was the habit, or at least the parents of healthy had the choice, of having the child baptised in the Catholic hospital.

    But in the case of imminent death, anybody can perform a Baptism who has the knowledge and the intention. A priest is not necessary for such a Baptism.
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    Offline Sede Catholic

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 05:36:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    3 1/2 weeks is nothing in the Novus Ordo.

    I know a woman (who attends the Novus Ordo) who decided recently "I should have my daughter baptized" -- she's 1 year old.

    Another man I know married a Novus Ordo woman, and their 2nd child was baptized 6 or 7 months after the birth.

    These people obviously don't believe in the necessity of water baptism. What are they counting on for their child's eternal salvation, Baptism of Desire? That's not for children in Catholic families! Just because BoD and BoB exist, that doesn't mean they have any bearing on the average Catholic family!

    No!  As far as the average Catholic is concerned, water Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.


    Dear Matthew,

    Yes, this is so important.
    No one should ever take any chances over something as IMPORTANT as Baptism.

    People should have their little babies baptized as soon as possible.

    It is so necessary to make sure that they can go to Heaven.

    Every parent, take notice of this:
    Do NOT delay baptizing your children, when they are born.
    And make sure that they are VALIDLY BAPTIZED.





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    I abjure and retract my schismatic support of the evil CMRI.Thuc condemned the Thuc nonbishops
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    Offline Matthew

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 05:52:29 PM »
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  • To perform an emergency baptism yourself:

    Pour water (holy water preferred, but not necessary) over the child's forehead so that the water flows, while saying the words:

    Ego te baptizo in nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti.

    I baptize thee in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

    (You can use the vernacular if necessary.)

    Make sure to let others know that you did this. Make sure the priest knows, so he doesn't baptize the baby twice.
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    Offline Jehanne

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #7 on: March 14, 2013, 06:45:14 PM »
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  • I baptized my last two (#4 and #5) myself while they were in the hospital within a few hours of their births; got a "couple of looks" from the nurse who noticed the styrofoam cup filled with water next to the sink but who cares?!.  From a historical point of view, the constant tradition of the Catholic Church was, for many centuries, to baptize infants within a day or so at the nearby parish church, if not sooner.  This is a historical fact disputed by no one.

    While at CAF (Catholic Answers forum) before being banned, I remember reading a post by a woman whose parish denied her and her husband sacramental baptism for their infant child.  Instead, the couple was told that they needed to wait for "six months" while they attended Sunday Mass at the parish.  They were told that such was "standard practice".  I posted on CAF that they should baptize their baby themselves, and my post was derided before being locked.  I point out that the 1983 Code of Canon Law called for sacramental baptism within "the first few weeks," as did the Catechism of the Catholic Church.  In any case, the woman followed my advice, as she sent me a PM about it.

    Here's what I advised her to do:

    Quote
    1) Get a liter of tap water; you don't need to use all of it.

    2) Hold your baby carefully over a sink.

    3) State your baby's full name, and say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father," pour water across forehead, "and of the Son," pour water across forehead, "and of the Holy Spirit," pour water across forehead. Use enough water to achieve oblation on each pour; so long as it runs across your baby's forehead, it's valid. Be careful so that the water does not flow into his/her nose and/or mouth. Get your spouse or friend to help you.

    Remember that:

    Can. 1752 In cases of transfer the prescripts of can. 1747 are to be applied, canonical equity is to be observed, and the salvation of souls, which must always be the supreme law in the Church, is to be kept before one’s eyes.


    I hope that my advice was correct, which I found in the present Catechism and a blog post from a traditional priest.


    Offline Zeitun

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #8 on: March 14, 2013, 08:22:07 PM »
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  • This is true in the NO parish I was at a decade ago.  Parents were forced to attend a month of classes to instruct the parents in the faith.  These were people who were already baptized so it shows you that in that parish they didn't believe that baptism for infants was a necessity.  Many of the parents in the class I had to attend were unmarried or fallen away.

    The two indult parishes I was at since then did not require classes.  But I wasn't able to have the baptisms done right away.  I believe both babies were about 3 months old.  

    Offline TKGS

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #9 on: March 14, 2013, 09:30:40 PM »
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  • WOW!!!

    All of my children were baptized in the Novus Ordo within a month of their births.   Even then I was very concerned that I had to wait so long.  I didn't realize that even a month was fast in the Novus Ordo.  No priest ever required us to wait in order to take classes or anything.  If they did, I would have been gone from the Novus Ordo years earlier (I think).

    It is amazing to me that after years of hearing the horror stories emanating from the Novus Ordo, I can still be shocked and scandalized.

    Please, Pelly, if this is what you're coming from, find a good Catechism soon.

    Offline Cristian

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #10 on: March 14, 2013, 10:45:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Pelly,


    To answer your question, the answer is no.


    TKGS: Are you sure? I`ve a very good moral theology book which says, if memory serves, that intrauterine baptism must be performed sub conditione if there are great probabilities that the unborn baby will die (I`m not at home and won`t be there till Sunday).


    Offline Iuvenalis

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #11 on: March 14, 2013, 10:53:26 PM »
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  • The Catechism of the Council of Trent is *freely* downloadable (as a PDF?), although I do not know where...

    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 12:05:49 AM »
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  • One young woman I know, unmarried, went to a NO priest when she was around 7 months pregnant and wanted info to arrange a nice Christening. She had been baptized Catholic, but the family did not otherwise attend. She was upset when he refused, and said that they would have to attend classes first, as would the people who she had wanted to be godparents, since they weren't Catholic.  What she really wanted was a fancy Christening with a lacy gown and nice party, and the attention. She decided it was too much trouble. The family finally just had the baby's photo taken in the heirloom gown. Poor kid.

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #13 on: March 15, 2013, 12:26:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant
    One young woman I know, unmarried, went to a NO priest when she was around 7 months pregnant and wanted info to arrange a nice Christening. She had been baptized Catholic, but the family did not otherwise attend. She was upset when he refused, and said that they would have to attend classes first, as would the people who she had wanted to be godparents, since they weren't Catholic.  What she really wanted was a fancy Christening with a lacy gown and nice party, and the attention. She decided it was too much trouble. The family finally just had the baby's photo taken in the heirloom gown. Poor kid.


    Sounds like she would have been mad anyway: you cannot have non-Catholic Godparents.

    Offline TKGS

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    Intrauterine baptism?
    « Reply #14 on: March 15, 2013, 06:59:56 AM »
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  • Quote from: Cristian
    Quote from: TKGS
    Pelly,


    To answer your question, the answer is no.


    TKGS: Are you sure? I`ve a very good moral theology book which says, if memory serves, that intrauterine baptism must be performed sub conditione if there are great probabilities that the unborn baby will die (I`m not at home and won`t be there till Sunday).


    Yes.  I am sure.  I think your memory is faulty or its not really a very good moral theology book.

    It is impossible to "pour water" over the head of a child still in the womb.  It simply cannot be done.  This is not a preferable action but part of the very essense of the sacrament.

    I knew a woman who was a nurse in a Catholic hospital prior to WWII who told me that when a woman lost a child (often unrecognizable as a baby) the nurses would pour water over the remains and "conditionally baptize" the child in case the soul had not yet departed from the body.  Perhaps this is what your book actually said.