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Author Topic: I need help...so very badly  (Read 5198 times)

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Offline Adam

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I need help...so very badly
« on: April 12, 2010, 10:12:37 PM »
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  • I guess this goes here under "health"...please feel free to move it if it doesn't. I don't really know what kind of post this is and frankly I am very wary about putting this into writing at all much less on the internet where it can be viewed by anyone but I am desperate and I need advice.
    Here is my problem, I am a man, single, 18, and I thought very very normal as far as sɛҳuąƖity went. I like women very much etc. Over the past year, however, I have noticed that I have become attracted to other men, not sɛҳuąƖly attracted mind you, the very idea disgusts me. Just, I see another man that is very handsome and I find him attractive. I don't know how to explain it. I appreciate beauty, I love art, the human form, I really hope this is all it is, I see something beautiful and I am drawn to it just as I would be to a statue of a man that is pleasing to look at. I do not know if this is a sin or not, and I am very confused and I don't mind saying frightened by all of this. I am not a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ! I love women...but apparently beautiful men as well...please help.

    I thank you.
    "Short swallow-flights of song, that dip
    Their wings in tears, and skim away."
    ~ Tennyson


    Offline Caminus

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    I need help...so very badly
    « Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 10:53:58 PM »
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  • This is a symptom of feasting your eyes on all kinds of beautiful things without any restraint.  If one does not mortify the senses in at least some lawful things, the soul finds itself in proximate danger of sinning.  Consequently, you must take up the habit of mortifying your senses at once.  Start with small things that pertain especially to sight and touch.  Practice casting your eyes downward when one comes into the presence of that which would please the eye.  Distract from any consideration of its natural beauty and place your attention elsewhere.  With regard to touch, avoid luxury as far as possible.  For example, if you have a choice between sitting on a chair with cushions versus one with a hard surface, pick the latter.  Or if you desire to salt your food, go without.  Most of all, you must immediately cast your eyes away from any visual appetite for the flesh of another.  Tell yourself that all is but ugliness compared to the beauty of God and that you would much prefer to save your eyes to behold the Beatific Vision of which you are in proximate danger of losing if your eyes are allowed to go unchecked all day long.  Your senses will cry and complain for awhile, but soon you will put them to sleep so that grace can work more efficiently in your soul.  Constantly turning to creatures and appreciating natural beauty in itself is a very serious fault that leads to grave evils.  


    Offline Raoul76

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    I need help...so very badly
    « Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 11:12:10 PM »
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  • What you're describing seems to be a stronger attraction than I've ever felt for the opposite sex, yet less than ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.  Most men, I'm sure, can recognize that other men are handsome -- such as the "Road Warrior" era Mel Gibson, whose magnetism is not lost on me.  The problem is that you say you are intrigued by the male form.  I don't think you'll discover too many entirely straight men who would share that sentiment.  

    One -- see a priest.  Two -- start fighting these inclinations now.  Don't wallow in them because you think they're purely aesthetic.  From what I can tell about ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, this aesthetic tendency is very big with them.  

    Right now it seems to me like you're allowing your mind to drift into dangerous areas but keeping it from going too far.  However, your treasure is where your heart is.  If you keep thinking about this, eventually you will be at great risk of giving into it.  

    Apart from that, Caminus' advice is good.  I don't know if the mortifications he describes actually help to cure wayward desires; but I perform certain mortifications and can tell you that my desires are at an extremely low ebb compared to how they used to be.  Definitely practice at least one lifelong, continuing mortification -- for instance, take cold or cold-ish showers every day.  I do not do the shower, I do something else.  But the point is, a lifelong mortification, one you've committed to until death, really helps you keep one foot in this world and one foot outside of it.  

    And when you pray, you have to pray for the right things.  You have to ask God to cure you of your desire and you have to really WANT him to cure you of the desire ( often we don't really want to be cured ).  

    Being a Catholic and aware of God's laws, you already KNOW right from wrong.  That's why you wrote this post and it's why you're troubled.  Now you have to ACT on your knowledge of right and wrong, building up a mindset that is contemptuous of the world instead of fascinated by it.

    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Caminus

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    I need help...so very badly
    « Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 11:25:21 PM »
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  • The two greatest ascetical ways for overcoming sins of the flesh is mortification in food especially and advertence of attention.  The masters say that one cannot take on this temptations directly and confront them, rather one must distract and advert.  

    Your examples of small mortifications are good and your experience proves the point, that luxury of the flesh is the greatest enemy of the spirit.  If one wants to fight lust or inordinate sensuality while at the same time giving shelter and rest to the flesh at every turn, then one will never succeed.  One must always keep it back with a stick, which is why mortification is always recommended.

    Regarding the enjoyment of natural beauty in itself as a serious defect, it is straight from St. John of the Cross.    

    Offline Caminus

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    « Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 11:30:57 PM »
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  • Also for the OP, it is very important to stay calm and confidently procede with prudence and determination.  Accept that you have put yourself in danger, do not be too surprised, and beg God for help, for knowledge and grace.  Then live in the moment, abandoned to the will of God.  Do not think of the past or the future, but what you need to do now without anxiety or eagerness.  Agitating yourself will only further entangle you in the web of your imperfections.  


    Offline Ladislaus

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    I need help...so very badly
    « Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 08:09:20 PM »
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  • I would only add that it's important to start thinking of things from a supernatural or or even just spiritual perspective.  Physical beauty is only the faintest reflection of God's perfections.  Meditate upon the goodness and beauty of God and the ephemeral, transient nature of physical beauty.  I make an analogy with a mirror.  If you see a beautiful reflection in a mirror, you do not attribute that beauty to the mirror.  Similarly, all the beauty in creation acts as a mirror that can only very imperfectly reflect an unspeakably tiny fraction of God's beauty.  So if you see a beautiful or handsome person, try to avoid attributing that to the person, to the creature, but rather to the Creator.  Realize also that whatever goodness or perfections you see there are temporary and fleeting, a transient reflection of their permanent Source.  I think that it was St. Francis Borgia who was converted to a life of piety from one of sensuality after seeing a woman he considered beautiful begin decomposing after death.   Meditate upon the death and the decay of the body after death.  Some saints kept skulls with them to remind them of this.  Think of the body rotting and infested with maggots and vermin after death.  Think of how physical beauty evaporates with old age.  Fill your mind and soul with the beauty of God, and His beauty will satisfy you so thoroughly that you will cease to feel a need for any of the lesser beauties.  Our heart cannot rest until it rests in God.  So if we start seeking to satisfy or satiate our desire for beauty in creatures, we'll never be fully satisfied and so will want more and more and more, until being dragged into sin.  Only God can satisfy this longing for beauty.  It's like people who eat and eat and eat and eat--and yet never feel satisfied, because what their eating doesn't actually satisfy the body's need for true nutrients.


    Offline Adam

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    I need help...so very badly
    « Reply #6 on: April 16, 2010, 11:13:55 PM »
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  • I sincerely thank y'all for your responses. I think I am fine. After talking to a couple of my friends I think this is rather normal. I am not having impure thoughts about these men so it can't be a sin...
    "Short swallow-flights of song, that dip
    Their wings in tears, and skim away."
    ~ Tennyson

    Offline Adam

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    « Reply #7 on: April 16, 2010, 11:16:39 PM »
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  • I will be more careful of enjoying the beauty of others as I have done previously and exercise restraint.
    "Short swallow-flights of song, that dip
    Their wings in tears, and skim away."
    ~ Tennyson


    Offline Raoul76

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    I need help...so very badly
    « Reply #8 on: April 16, 2010, 11:43:52 PM »
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  • Your new avatar is not exactly encouraging.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Adam

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    I need help...so very badly
    « Reply #9 on: April 16, 2010, 11:47:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    Your new avatar is not exactly encouraging.


    haha It's just Clark Gable as Rhett Butler. Don't worry.
    "Short swallow-flights of song, that dip
    Their wings in tears, and skim away."
    ~ Tennyson

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #10 on: April 16, 2010, 11:53:19 PM »
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  • I know what it is... It's still not very encouraging.  He's all dandified and foppish in that pic.  But if you put Audrey Hepburn up there it would also make you look gαy... Lots of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs have a fixation with old films, but I will back off that subject, since I used to like them myself.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline Adam

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    « Reply #11 on: April 17, 2010, 12:25:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    I know what it is... It's still not very encouraging.  He's all dandified and foppish in that pic.  But if you put Audrey Hepburn up there it would also make you look gαy... Lots of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs have a fixation with old films, but I will back off that subject, since I used to like them myself.


    Well, I must confess I am a bit of a "dandy" myself and I do appreciate old films but I fail to see how either of those would make me a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ...
    "Short swallow-flights of song, that dip
    Their wings in tears, and skim away."
    ~ Tennyson

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #12 on: April 17, 2010, 03:58:48 AM »
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  • I was once a dandy who liked old films and I am not ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ.  So that doesn't make you a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ.  But you are not just a dandy who likes old films, but a dandy who likes old films who wrote a post asking for advice about your love of the male form.  Because of that, it might behoove one to be more careful.  That isn't Rita Hayworth you have in your icon.

    I think you really have tapped into the root of your problem by admitting you are a dandy, and that problem may be narcissism rather than ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.  Narcissism and self-love may BECOME ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.  It seems to me there is something inherently narcissistic about physically admiring a member of the same sex, in a way that borders on attraction -- or is that too Freudian?

    I don't know.  I have nothing ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ about me -- being honest to a fault, I would admit if I did, as I think this site knows -- but I am a strange case.  I am not a natural-born dandy because I am not naturally handsome.  I had a nose job at 19, and that is what caused me to be vain.  It completely changed my appearance and kind of gave me a split personality.  I went from being meek and painfully shy to being like the incarnation of Narcissus.  It was so bad I would sometimes stare at myself in the glass case at the frozen-foods section and become completely mesmerized.  What makes it worse is that I was fascinated by my own brain as well and thought I was a genius, so I had a double vanity which bordered on the Satanic.  

    The ironic thing is that, now that I have been ( hopefully ) healed of this malady, I realize that even with the nose job I am quite plain.  My great "beauty" was all in my head.  

    So my advice to you is to work on the dandy business.  I have de-dandified myself.  I used to dress like a fop with the silky shirt and the buttons undone and the bangs -- I kind of tried to be like the actor Alain Delon, or the singer Bryan Ferry.  

    http://katnip.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/alain-delon.jpg

    I'm an American who tried to be Eurotrash.  But as I became Catholic, I became so ashamed of this attitude, and especially of having changed my God-given face, that I lost almost all pleasure in looking at myself.  I realized that God is the only star and that I am in His shadow.  To doll yourself up seems ridiculous once you know this.

    Some advice I can give you is to wear your hair in a way you think is unflattering.   It may actually BE flattering, but what is important is that in your own imagination it robs you of your attractiveness.  I think my best look is the David Bowie mullet.  I am one of the few who can pull off a mullet and not look trashy -- in my mind, it makes me look like Michael the Archangel.  It's like I was born for that haircut.  So I work against it and deny it to myself.  Instead of my magic mullet, I try to keep my hair short and slick it back, which emphasizes my weak chin and makes me look like a mouse or even a rat.  I feel cruddy and ugly.  That may not sound pleasant, but it keeps me out of harm's way.  Even if someone flirts with me, I just think, "What's wrong with you, can't you see I'm ugly and look like a rat?"  

    Also, wear clothes that embarrass you.  Like I'll wear the same outfit for a week straight or thereabouts until it gets all wrinkly and I look like a bum.  All these things help.

    Foppishness is nothing to take lightly, my man.  It can lead you into labyrinths of evil you never knew existed.  God hates pride, and those who are prideful are at the mercy of the devil -- a character not known for his mercy.  But take heart, because the Catholic tradition has a long history of reformed playboys and dandies, from St. Augustine to St. Francis to St. Ignatius.  Those are some of the heaviest of heavy hitters, and all of them are reformed dandies.

    I hope this helps.  But I have to go to bed now because I'm getting silly and chuckling to myself about the word "dandies."
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Alex

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    « Reply #13 on: April 17, 2010, 04:57:07 AM »
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  •  :laugh2:

    Raoul,

    The way you talked about yourself had be cracking up so bad. I think it's time I go to bed too.


    Offline Alex

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    « Reply #14 on: April 17, 2010, 05:19:43 AM »
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  • Adam,

    Your physical attraction to other men does not mean that you are a homo. While what you are doing is not as common with men, it is quite common with females. I've seen many many women who when they see a beautiful women (in a magazine, on TV, or in person) say, "Wow, she's really pretty!" and they just stare in admiration of her beauty. Men don't stare at the beauty of other men as women do at other women because of their fear of seeming gαy. Many guys are even afraid to admit if a man is handsome or not if asked. In the same way, men are raised to not cry because that is a sign of being a sissy.

    But that does not mean that it is OK for you to continue.

    Raoul is correct in that saying that this often stems from one's own narcissism. I've noticed that those that are into their own looks do tend to admire the beauty of people of the same sex.

    Caminus is also correct in stating that if you don't mortify your senses, you will find yourself in a proximate danger of sinning. The more you dwell on the beauty of the same sex the more likely the devil will use this obsession to lead you to an eventual attraction to men. You think it can't happen, but, trust me, it can.