Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Health and Nutrition => Topic started by: Vincancino on August 03, 2023, 10:22:06 PM
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Hello members of Cathinfo, I need some advice please. My wife and are looking for a private health insurance for our family, but are also considering remaining cash paying patients. We are both in our early 40's and have 3 kids under 5 yrs and rarely visit the doctor. We live in California and I am self employed with modest income. If you were in my situation, would you shop for and insurance or continue paying out of pocket when necessary? If having private insurance is better, are there insurance that are Catholic or does it matter? I would like to know your thoughts, I've notice almost all members are very knowledgeable on the forum. Thank you very much.
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I don't even live in America, so I don't know how your health insurance works, but I can tell you that you can have some sort of bad surprise with the health of some family member, and the hospital bills will certainly be horrendous.
I would rather pay for insurance and not use it than take the risk.
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Hello members of Cathinfo, I need some advice please. My wife and are looking for a private health insurance for our family, but are also considering remaining cash paying patients. We are both in our early 40's and have 3 kids under 5 yrs and rarely visit the doctor. We live in California and I am self employed with modest income. If you were in my situation, would you shop for and insurance or continue paying out of pocket when necessary? If having private insurance is better, are there insurance that are Catholic or does it matter? I would like to know your thoughts, I've notice almost all members are very knowledgeable on the forum. Thank you very much.
When you're young (and unvaxxed), the odds are decent that you won't have a catastrophic health problem and resultant catastrophe. You can take the risk of being uninsured. That said, even if you break a bone that requires a surgical intervention, you are easily facing a >$50,000 expense. Through my recent surgeries I had the unwelcome opportunity of dealing with the bills. One particular 40-minute laser procedure, done only under a propofol drip (as inexpensive as it gets), was billed at $84,000. From registration to discharge was a total of about 3 hours! Thank God that our insurance covered all but about $5,000.
As you get older the odds of skating by without some such unwelcome and unplanned surgery get slimmer by the day.
Is there a solution? Not really. Insurance is a jew business and their goal is profit, not your health.
What are your options? Go "naked" (= roll the dice without any coverage). See if you qualify for coverage through some .gov/.ZOG program (Medicaid, Medicare)? Bite the bullet and pay through the nose (family of 4 ~$2,000/month) for "catastrophic" coverage that will put you at risk for a big ($10,000-$20,000) deductible? In that case. you pay $24,000± annually for the "privilege" of paying "only" $20,000 deductible if you need a hospitalization. Self insure? Do you really want to bank $50,000 dedicated to medical coverage?
Another imperfect alternative, you or your wife get a job that includes a decent health policy.
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I am retired and have ACA insurance through Blue Cross. I pay $243 per month and will age out of ACA in two years when Medicare kicks in. My son is on his mother's health insurance, so I pay nothing for his.
My Blue Cross coverage is excellent and my copays are minimal.
Only kicker, I cannot smoke or even vape. I haven't smoked leaf tobacco in about eight years, and the rule now is that you cannot even vape. I always say, for my 65th birthday I'm getting myself a pack of Camel straights (non-filtered). Don't intend to develop a habit, but they were the best, more like smoking a Gauloises or something. An occasional cigarette isn't going to hurt anybody.
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Like Giovanni, I don’t live in America. Overall, our Australian health system works well. Here we get what services are necessary, without insurance. If you have insurance some treatments are pushed which are quite often unwarranted.
Sounds like your were similar ages to us when we had our children.
I paid insurance as a single girl, because my father did before me. When we married we decided against insurance. He is opposed to non-compulsory insurance. Everything went smoothly. We were covered by the Oz system of Medibank. We never earned enough money to pay, lived frugally offgrid etc.
I had a heart attack at 49, and got excellent treatment. My husband does not see a doctor, except to get his driver’s licence renewed.
In our old age, 77 and 82, we never do vax, eat healthy
In 2017, while working in Madagascar, I had a stroke. Treatment was appalling, and eventually air ambulanced to Mauritius. Treatment was good. Eventually I was well enough to fly business class to Australia. My husband had trouble accessing funds, but two of our chilren paid, and we paid them back later.
My daughter who was a nurse in a hospital told us the treatment of public patients is equal to or better than private (insured) patients.
That’s my 2c. for what it’s worth. Not that it will be terribly relevant to your Californian situation. Spend wisely, live healthy and hope for the best.
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I am retired and have ACA insurance through Blue Cross. I pay $243 per month and will age out of ACA in two years when Medicare kicks in. …
I infer then that your retirement bargain is directly a benefit of "get a job that provides insurance."
I know of no self-employed person who pays such a low rate for even 1 individual.
A few days ago, I was discussing insurance costs with a lady who told me she is paying $700/month for her Medicare Part B only.
…got excellent treatment.…
About 15 years ago I was trying to have a heart attack :laugh1: and all the private hospitals within reach were "on bypass" (full, so not accepting new patients). The ambulance took me to our county hospital (horrible reputation). I thought I was a goner, but instead received excellent care, a stent, and was fixed within a few hours and went home the next day.
…Spend wisely, live healthy and hope for the best.
Yes… Be good and be well!
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Weird software bug
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I infer then that your retirement bargain is directly a benefit of "get a job that provides insurance."
I know of no self-employed person who pays such a low rate for even 1 individual.
A few days ago, I was discussing insurance costs with a lady who told me she is paying $700/month for her Medicare Part B only.
I have a fairly low income, just pension, Social Security, and whatever I have to take out of my 401(k) to make ends meet. (Thankfully, my stocks have been doing very well this year.) I am able each year to report a projected income that is very accurate, as I know what my pension and SS are going to be, and I figure out what I am going to need to take out of 401(k), add it all together, and that's what they base my subsidy upon. I have my home paid for, and I live very frugally out of necessity. In fact, lately, I've been using my food storage to keep my grocery bill down. No use letting perfectly good food go to waste.
My mother has Medicare Part B and she doesn't pay nearly as much as the lady whom you mention.
Not clear what you mean by "I infer then that your retirement bargain is directly a benefit of 'get a job that provides insurance' " No offense taken, I just don't understand the sentence. I am partially disabled, and on top of that, have elder caregiving and full-time parenting and homeschooling responsibilities, so getting a job wouldn't work right now. After my son finishes high school, I may try to get some kind of work-at-home hustle.
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Another option is a Christian healthcare sharing network. They are mostly Protestant, and technically not insurance. They can be a bit of a pain to use, as you have to do a lot of the footwork when it comes to negotiating with doctors and hospitals. You are technically self pay but you need all the same paper work the insurance companies need. We used Samaritan for a few years, but stopped when they started increasing the costs during Covid. For your family size it would be about $600 a month, $400 “co-pay” and limit of 250k per “need”. They also do not cover pre existing conditions. Overall it’s a good program, but costs are always going up, and I didn’t want to pay for the health issues of thousands of people that were stupid enough to get the jab.
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Personally, I wouldn't go without insurance, but I have no idea where you can find reasonable, private insurance. We have been lucky in that my husband works in healthcare and, although the insurance costs have gone up over the years, it's still a great plan compared to much of what is out there these days.
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Yeah, it's a huge risk to go without insurance, since, as others have pointed out, even a relatively minor procedure costs thousands, or 10s of thousands these days. You can think you're in great health, but accidents happen and people are surprised every day with unexpected health conditions.
I think you also get some penalties from the IRS if you don't have health insurance.
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Another option is a Christian healthcare sharing network. They are mostly Protestant, and technically not insurance. They can be a bit of a pain to use, as you have to do a lot of the footwork when it comes to negotiating with doctors and hospitals. You are technically self pay but you need all the same paper work the insurance companies need. We used Samaritan for a few years, but stopped when they started increasing the costs during Covid. For your family size it would be about $600 a month, $400 “co-pay” and limit of 250k per “need”. They also do not cover pre existing conditions. Overall it’s a good program, but costs are always going up, and I didn’t want to pay for the health issues of thousands of people that were stupid enough to get the jab.
I know several people who use this type of option, and are very happy with it.
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You can also check here ...
https://www.healthcare.gov/see-plans/#/
I found some plans here for a family of 6 for $25 per month (after tax credits) that have a high deductible ($18,000), but that would at least protect you from catastrophic situations where you're on the hook for hundreds of thousands. There were some in the $400 per month range with $1500-$1800 deductibles. I'd at least consider the $25 plan to prevent becoming an indentured servant for the next 50 years in case you incur a huge expense.
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Not something to count on, but hospitals can and do reduce payments SIGNIFICANTLY, and many times just write them off since they get an enormous amount of government money to do just that, especially after COVID. I was uninsured for 2 years and every procedure that I had at the hospital was reduced by at least forty% upon request and some were even completely forgiven without me even asking. The upcharge on insured patients is well over 100-200% mostly to cover for all the losses. Now with COViD money the losses are much less and frequently forgiven. I'm not saying don't get insured but if for some reason you are uninsured and in an emergent situation they usually will negotiate. With elective procedures they will negotiate up front for a substantial reduced cost.
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Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and advice. I'm so grateful for this website. God bless you.
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Not something to count on, but hospitals can and do reduce payments SIGNIFICANTLY, and many times just write them off since they get an enormous amount of government money to do just that, especially after COVID. I was uninsured for 2 years and every procedure that I had at the hospital was reduced by at least forty% upon request and some were even completely forgiven without me even asking. The upcharge on insured patients is well over 100-200% mostly to cover for all the losses. Now with COViD money the losses are much less and frequently forgiven. I'm not saying don't get insured but if for some reason you are uninsured and in an emergent situation they usually will negotiate. With elective procedures they will negotiate up front for a substantial reduced cost.
Seem to be somewhat immoral, though, to deliberately go uninsured when you could afford it, since the costs are being passed along to those who are paying for insurance, who are therefore having to pay higher premiums as a result. I'm not saying that was your situation, but I wouldn't advise going uninsured just to save money (hoping your debts will get written off or reduced), since you'd be passing the costs onto others, which is the equivalent of theft.
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Avoid public insurance. It's a bureaucreatic mess that won't get any better. There's people who want this in the United States for everyone like the NHS in Britain and we're nowhere near ready for that.
So enroll in private insurance. It's better. It's not perfect but better than the alternative.
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We've used Christian Healthcare Ministries for about 15 years now and are happy with it. The costs have increased lately, but so has the cost of literally everything, so it's to be expected.
If you're unfamiliar with health-sharing programs, you pay for your own low-level medical like a routine doctor visit and they share costs of major medical. How "major" it has to be depends on which level of participation you choose when you sign up.
Our kids have always qualified for CHIP or Medicaid, so we only use CHM for the adults.
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Hello members of Cathinfo, I need some advice please. My wife and are looking for a private health insurance for our family, but are also considering remaining cash paying patients. We are both in our early 40's and have 3 kids under 5 yrs and rarely visit the doctor. We live in California and I am self employed with modest income. If you were in my situation, would you shop for and insurance or continue paying out of pocket when necessary? If having private insurance is better, are there insurance that are Catholic or does it matter? I would like to know your thoughts, I've notice almost all members are very knowledgeable on the forum. Thank you very much.
In theory, being "self insured" would work.
HOWEVER, the reality is that our salaries are priced in pennies, and medical procedures are priced in 10s of dollars.
Imagine a group of 3 dozen children with 30 pennies each, trading with each other for different things, buying and selling trinkets, beads, pinecones, cups of lemonade. Now imagine one of them wanted to sell enough pinecones or beads to buy a NEW CAR for $30,000. Would it be possible? no. The two economies are not on the same scale; one is orders of magnitude more than the other. One of those children could get ALL the other kids' pennies and STILL not be able to afford to buy a new car.
That's what healthcare is like. Normal people can save $50 here, $100 there, maybe even a few thousand here or there from the yearly IRS refund. But a single procedure can be $30,000, or $50,000, or even $500,000. All the frugality and hard work in the world isn't going to be enough for one major operation or extended hospital stay. It's screwed up, yes, but Healthcare is not on the same scale as the average person's income or savings. In short, it's impossible to self-insure. Unless your income is over $500,000 a year AND you can manage to save a huge chunk of that.
Hence, you NEED at least catastrophic or Major Medical insurance, to cover those potential astronomical hospital bills. And no one can know what lies in their future. We all have frail bodies post-Fall, and even if you're healthy in your 20's that might not continue into your 60's. Know what I mean?
How many people own their own home free-and-clear in their 20s? That's only $100K, or $200K. Heck, most people don't even own their cars outright, and cars can be had for $3K to $20K. How could they ever expect to pay astronomical hospital bills out-of-pocket, from their savings? Some operations, hospital stays, and treatments cost MUCH MORE than a house.
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PS I'm usually against insurance. To me it's like gambling. But for the reasons I listed above, I am forced to acknowledge reality and use some kind of health insurance.
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Some things to consider:
While the Affordable Health Care Act created some basic standards applicable in every state (such as insurance policies can’t red line out preexisting conditions), the insurance industry is still largely regulated independently by each state, and federal programs such as Medicaid (not Medicare) are administered independently by each state. What companies are allowed to operate, what policies are available, what premium costs are can vary widely, depending on where you live.
Nobody is forced to carry health insurance, that is a myth. There used to be a federal tax penalty for those who didn’t have health insurance but that was eliminated in 2019. Some states still impose a penalty but not the federal government. Under the old rule nobody was required to pay more than a certain percentage of their income (8.5% I believe) for health insurance, and if one couldn’t find a policy for less than that there was no tax penalty. From 1999 until I went on full Medicare (Parts A and B) my health insurance was provided by my employer (with a premium co-pay). Before that I paid for my own insurance, but the rates weren’t that bad and I was “grandfathered” on an old policy that was no longer offered for sale. I’ve never had to shop on the exchange or open market, but my understanding is that often premium subsidies are available depending on one’s income. This may depend on which state one lives in.
Regardless of its faults California has a reputation for having generous safety net programs and you should look into what subsidized health plans might be available for families of modest income.
If one is on a “Consumer Directed Health Plan” (i.e., with a higher deductible) they may be able have a Health Savings Account into which one can make tax exempt deposits. At my work I had a choice of choosing a plan with a $1,800 deductible (versus a standard plan with a $250 deductible) and a lower premium co-pay and was eligible to have a HSA. I could pay medical and dental expenses, and for certain over the counter products, out of this savings account. Once I went on Medicare Part A (required at age 65) I was no longer allowed to make additional deposits to the HSA but I got to finish using what was already there. A HSA (not to be confused with Flexible Spending Accounts, or FSA) perhaps can be a good asset in conjunction with a high deductible plan.
I agree with Ladislaus that those who refuse to carry health insurance or make no effort to find plans they can afford, if they should have a medical emergency and can’t pay for it, just force up the costs for the rest of us.
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Seem to be somewhat immoral, though, to deliberately go uninsured when you could afford it, since the costs are being passed along to those who are paying for insurance, who are therefore having to pay higher premiums as a result. I'm not saying that was your situation, but I wouldn't advise going uninsured just to save money (hoping your debts will get written off or reduced), since you'd be passing the costs onto others, which is the equivalent of theft.
But that's the "64 thousand dollar question" (for those old enough to remember the expression) -- can you afford it or not. It's often said that the one who frames the issues wins the argument. What if you were to frame the issues by saying health insurance is one big immoral racket/scam and nobody should support a big immoral racket/scam by paying premiums to support it and keep it going. If things are framed that way, then the bad guys are the ones who support the immoral system by paying their insurance premiums and the good ones are the ones who hold the insurance racket/scam in contempt and go uncovered regardless of whether they can afford it or not. I'm not falling into either camp of going insured or uninured, but rather I'm giving a different perspective on the matter.
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Does the healthcare industry have to cost as much as it does? If not, then they might not have to rely on those who have insurance to cover the cost of those who don't and can't afford to pay the full cost.
Should we rather have sufficient faith in God and let Him be our heath insurance, let Him be our protector and our God, and His will be done, whether it is to be sick, die early, maimed, or miraculously healed whenever pleases Him. To what extent is our obligation to seek treatment and set aside money for it? May the Blessed Mother and all the angels and saints pray for us and help us that we always remain in the state of grace, so that we may merit no evils in this life, and be prepared to die whenever and however. Amen
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But that's the "64 thousand dollar question" (for those old enough to remember the expression) -- can you afford it or not. It's often said that the one who frames the issues wins the argument. What if you were to frame the issues by saying health insurance is one big immoral racket/scam and nobody should support a big immoral racket/scam by paying premiums to support it and keep it going. If things are framed that way, then the bad guys are the ones who support the immoral system by paying their insurance premiums and the good ones are the ones who hold the insurance racket/scam in contempt and go uncovered regardless of whether they can afford it or not. I'm not falling into either camp of going insured or uninured, but rather I'm giving a different perspective on the matter.
Along those same lines, I don't think it's been proven here that an uninsured person increases the costs for the insured. The amount billed is never the amount paid -- whether by an insurance company or an individual. The main driving factor in how much is billed is that it needs to be as high as the highest possible receipt. So, if you have a procedure code and Humana is contracted to pay you $500, BCBS will pay you $700 and United will pay you $850, then your "charge" for that procedure is going to be $900. When an uninsured person comes in and asks for a discount, giving them 40% or 50% is just acknowledging that you weren't actually expecting to get $900. Also, the uninsured will only get the bill entirely written off if they show financial need which means they arguably "couldn't afford it" to begin with. (Of course there's room here for fraudulent reporting, but that's a different issue.)
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Does the healthcare industry have to cost as much as it does? If not, then they might not have to rely on those who have insurance to cover the cost of those who don't and can't afford to pay the full cost.
Should we rather have sufficient faith in God and let Him be our heath insurance, let Him be our protector and our God, and His will be done, whether it is to be sick, die early, maimed, or miraculously healed whenever pleases Him. To what extent is our obligation to seek treatment and set aside money for it? May the Blessed Mother and all the angels and saints pray for us and help us that we always remain in the state of grace, so that we may merit no evils in this life, and be prepared to die whenever and however. Amen
Amen. Christianity survived for centuries without the "necessity" of insurance. You got any extra money? Support worthy efforts in the Church, set aside some money (if you can) for your funeral expenses and for your dependents, and always give money for alms if you can. And do whatever you can to stay out of debt.
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…My mother has Medicare Part B and she doesn't pay nearly as much as the lady whom you mention.
Not clear what you mean by "I infer then that your retirement bargain is directly a benefit of 'get a job that provides insurance' " No offense taken, I just don't understand the sentence. I am partially disabled, and on top of that, have elder caregiving and full-time parenting and homeschooling responsibilities, so getting a job wouldn't work right now. After my son finishes high school, I may try to get some kind of work-at-home hustle.
I am not on Medicare and do not want Medicare, so I only know what I was told. Popular misunderstanding aside, Medicare is not an "I'm getting back what I paid in" deal; it is another Ponzi fraud like "Social Security."
Not clear what you mean by "I infer then that your retirement bargain is directly a benefit of 'get a job that provides insurance' " No offense taken, I just don't understand the sentence. I am partially disabled, and on top of that, have elder caregiving and full-time parenting and homeschooling responsibilities, so getting a job wouldn't work right now. After my son finishes high school, I may try to get some kind of work-at-home hustle.
In that perhaps opaque statement I meant to convey:
(1) I described a few options to the OP: go "naked," self-insure, qualify for a governemnt handout, or "get a job that provides health coverage."
(2) Your described costs for health insurance are low because they are subsidized, in part because it's part of your retirement package, which…
(3) Is a direct result of having "gotten a job that subsidized your health insurance," so…
(4) I consider your low insurance premiums a subset of "getting a job that provides health care."
If you had not taken "a job that provides health care," you wouldn't have that particular subsidy. You might or might not qualify for a different subsidy.
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I know several people who use this type of option, and are very happy with it.
Not to be flip, but many people are also happy with Kaiser (the HMO archetype).
Those people fall mostly into two categories:
(1) young healthy people who take care of themselves, don't get sick, so never need to deal with Kaiser's obstructions and
(2) people with catastrophic medical problems who have been successfully plugged into Kaiser's system and all the costs are borne within Kaiser (as Kaiser dictates, "our way or no way").
Unfortunately, most people and most families are in the middle of those extremes, families with some health problems, so have to negotiate the roadblocks and maze of requirements that lead, last time I saw numbers, 70% of Kaiser patients pay out-of-pocket for care outside of Kaiser. So, that 70% pays their Kaiser premiums, Kaiser is out of pocket nothing, and the patients has the additional expense of using the provate system, e.g., "urgent care cebters" and the like.
I looked at the Protestant (not "Christian") plans and concluded it was just a variant of Kaiser's roadblocks and mazes. We took the "get a job that provides…" option.
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I looked at the Protestant (not "Christian") plans and concluded it was just a variant of Kaiser's roadblocks and mazes. We took the "get a job that provides…" option.
The programs might sound complicated at first, but in my experience, CHM has been easy to work with.
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Does the healthcare industry have to cost as much as it does? If not, then they might not have to rely on those who have insurance to cover the cost of those who don't and can't afford to pay the full cost.…
Well… "industry" says it all, doesn't it? All of the "for profit" middle men are feeding at the same trough.
In my youth, it cost $7 for an office visit. If you needed an x-ray or EKG or a shot, there was no extra charge, the doctor absorbed the extra costs.
When Medicare was foisted on the nation (by the money-worshippers' lobby), the government started asking, "What are these charges for?" Doctors reacted to the .gov/.ZOG questions and started thinking… "Hey, I have to pay for that x-ray machine, the film, the tech and the electricity and maintenance and the developer and the chemicals to run the machine. I have to pay for that EKG machine, the paper, the nurse, and the electricity and maintenance to run the machine. I have office rent, billing staff, malpractice, etc."
This unintended (?) consequence of .gov/.ZOG intervention in your health care led to doctors unbundling those services that were previously bundled in that $7 office visit fee. Who can be surprised that the routine charge is not longer $7 or even the 2023 equivalent of pre-Medicare dollars?
Jew lawyers and their goy clients saw a quick buck in any unwelcome outcome. Malpractice costs soared and those costs were passed on to patients and/or their surrogates.
Then in the 1990's Kaiser's 1940's experiment with managed care exploded in our faces. Within a decade managed care took over and monolithic profit-oriented (((big business))) passed on not only the actual costs of health care, but the costs of their own lavish edifices and armies of minimum wage employees and cover-their-ass attorneys started denying your medical bills, denying imaging or recommended procedures.
And, of course, marvelous technological advances like that $1million CT scanner, $2million dollar MRI, and $2.5million PET/CT, $1billion proton beam, etc. wrought diagnostic marvels at an enormous increase in cost.
And then there is the inflation caused by patients and families. In the past Mom would keep you home with your sore throat, give you hot tea and honey, and see that your sore throat went away in a day or so. Not so with modern metrosɛҳuąƖ men and entitled women. Now everything is "urgent" or an "emergency." Everyone wants the quick fix, so they rush to the most expensive providers of instant care. What costs $50 in a GP's office, now costs $2000 (minimum) in the ER.
Having "first dollar" coverage means patients and families have no disincentive to go to the most fastest and most expensive source of [dubious] care. They don't see the $2,000 ER visit coming out of their pocket because those costs are hidden from them.
No longer do most doctors take any oath to be advocates and defenders of their patients. Instead self-aggrandizement becomes primary. "Managed care" withholds from doctors about 50-70% of the already discounted fee and the doctor will never see that 50-70% if he orders "too many" scans, lab tests, or prescriptions.
There is plenty pf blame to go around. In short, health care and health costs reflects the general decline in society.
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Never had insurance. Never plan to get it. Eat right, live right. No issues.
Like all insurance, it is a gigantic scam. Just as an unjust law is no law at all, an insane/unjust bill is no bill. They MUST treat you, but that does not mean you MUST ruin your life to repay them. Send them a few bucks a month, they cannot object or harm you.
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The programs might sound complicated at first, but in my experience, CHM has been easy to work with.
I don't know you very well, but you have a reasonable, intelligent, thoughtful, and moral husband (Assumes facts not in evidence? :laugh1:) and that goes a long way to making your approach successful. Reasonable expectations and reasonable precautions.
Who here imagines that is the norm in the "outside" world? I certainly don't. It is not the norm.
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In short, health care and health costs reflects the general decline in society.
They reflect the influence/dominance of the satanic, rapacious ((tribalists)).
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Not something to count on, but hospitals can and do reduce payments SIGNIFICANTLY, and many times just write them off since they get an enormous amount of government money to do just that, especially after COVID. I was uninsured for 2 years and every procedure that I had at the hospital was reduced by at least forty% upon request and some were even completely forgiven without me even asking. The upcharge on insured patients is well over 100-200% mostly to cover for all the losses. Now with COViD money the losses are much less and frequently forgiven. I'm not saying don't get insured but if for some reason you are uninsured and in an emergent situation they usually will negotiate. With elective procedures they will negotiate up front for a substantial reduced cost.
^^^this
It is best to negotiate the discount in advance of needed care (offer no more than the hospital already accepts from insurance carriers). Don't let the hospital "cost shift" against you. Unfortunately that advantage is usually lost in emergencies.
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They reflect the influence/dominance of the satanic, rapacious ((tribalists)).
It pains me to agree with you on anything, but I do agree on this.
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Seem to be somewhat immoral, though, to deliberately go uninsured when you could afford it, since the costs are being passed along to those who are paying for insurance, who are therefore having to pay higher premiums as a result.
Disagree completely. It is all a racket and a bunch of nonsense. The costs are what they are because our Arch-Enemies are rigging the entire show -- nothing more.
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It pains me to agree with you on anything, but I do agree on this.
For your pain, I have given you a thumbs-up. Although part of me would love to fight you, something tells me that we would probably get along reasonably well, provided we could share some good food, wine and conversation in person. Godspeed, sir.
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Seem to be somewhat immoral, though, to deliberately go uninsured when you could afford it, since the costs are being passed along to those who are paying for insurance, who are therefore having to pay higher premiums as a result. I'm not saying that was your situation, but I wouldn't advise going uninsured just to save money (hoping your debts will get written off or reduced), since you'd be passing the costs onto others, which is the equivalent of theft.
This is only partially true.
Cost shifting.
Most .gov/.ZOG programs reimburse the hospital at less than the cost of providing the care (allowing for their over-building "edifice complex"). (((Insurance companies))) recognize this so, when (((they))) can, (((they))) pit hospitals against each other in a low bid war. The hospitals then try to "cost shift" to those at the bottom, uninsured people who have some assets.
It really is a Jew game that crucifies the goyim.
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…All the frugality and hard work in the world isn't going to be enough for one major operation or extended hospital stay. It's screwed up, yes, but Healthcare is not on the same scale as the average person's income or savings. …
I have long believed that the problems of health care are intended and not the result of mere accident or incompetence.
The evil ones have weaponized everything against us, not just wars, not just food, not just money, but even the (((medical-industrial complex))). For (((them))) "it's a feature, not a bug."
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…While the Affordable Health Care Act created some basic standards applicable in every state (such as insurance policies can’t red line out preexisting conditions)…
…and the cost of those pre-existing conditions is paid by… everyone else.
…Nobody is forced to carry health insurance, that is a myth. There used to be a federal tax penalty for those who didn’t have health insurance but that was eliminated in 2019. Some states still impose a penalty but not the federal government. …
Hmmm… if so, I can only wonder why I still receive and my account asks for those 1095-C IRS forms.
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…It is all a racket and a bunch of nonsense. The costs are what they are because our Arch-Enemies are rigging the entire show -- nothing more. [emphasis added]
Yikes! Agreeing twice in one thread. I'm calling my doctor. :laugh2:
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(https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/health-insurance-advice/msg897505/#msg897505)
Quote from: moneil on Yesterday at 06:02:45 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/health-insurance-advice/msg897505/#msg897505)
…While the Affordable Health Care Act created some basic standards applicable in every state (such as insurance policies can’t red line out preexisting conditions)…
…and the cost of those pre-existing conditions is paid by… everyone else.
Quote from: moneil on Yesterday at 06:02:45 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/health-insurance-advice/msg897505/#msg897505)
…Nobody is forced to carry health insurance, that is a myth. There used to be a federal tax penalty for those who didn’t have health insurance but that was eliminated in 2019. Some states still impose a penalty but not the federal government. …
Hmmm… if so, I can only wonder why I still receive and my account asks for those 1095-C IRS forms.
Yes, we do pay (in premium cost) for those pre-existing conditions, that is the nature of an insurance risk pool. Washington State prohibited the “red lining” of pre-existing conditions sometime back in the 1980’s I think. A predictable result was that several insurance companies pulled out of the Washington market and I think our premium costs were higher than some other states. On the other hand, a person born with Type 1 (juvenile) diabetes, epilepsy, a congenital heart defect (to give just a very few examples) began to have their health plan cover all of their medical needs, which is the purpose of health insurance.
As for “the penalty”, I did a search to see what the penalty was for not having health insurance. I read that the federal penalty had been eliminated in 2019 during the Trump administration but I didn’t delve into it further. The article said that some states impose their own penalty (Washington does not have an income tax and has never had “this penalty”). You may need this form for your state. Also, it may be more efficient to do a blanket issue than to figure out who needs what.
This form also may be applicable for Medicare recipients. At age 65 U.S. citizens sign up for Medicare Part A (sometimes called the “original Medicare”), which covers hospitalizations, skilled nursing care, some rehab services and there is no charge for it. People can also sign up for Medicare Part B, which is a more traditional health plan (doctor visits, diagnostics and treatments, surgery, etc.) but does not cover prescription drugs. I pay $145.63 per month for Part B and it has a $250 annual deductible. Part B is optional, however if someone declines Part B and does not have other coverage, in the future if they want to subscribe to Part B they will have to pay a premium penalty forever (10% I think). For a time after I enrolled in Part A I declined Part B as I also had other employer provided insurance. I submitted proof of this other insurance and 2-3 years later when I no longer had it and wanted to sign up for Part B I was able to do so without a penalty.
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(https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/health-insurance-advice/msg897505/#msg897505)
…and the cost of those pre-existing conditions is paid by… everyone else.
Quote from: moneil on Yesterday at 06:02:45 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/health-insurance-advice/msg897505/#msg897505)
Hmmm… if so, I can only wonder why I still receive and my account asks for those 1095-C IRS forms.
Yes, we do pay (in premium cost) for those pre-existing conditions,…
This form also may be applicable for Medicare recipients. At age 65 U.S. citizens sign up for …
You have confirmed my accelerationist leanings. This ʝʊdɛօ-Luciferian death-cult/slave-cult shit show needs to end… pronto.
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(https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/health-insurance-advice/msg897505/#msg897505)
…and the cost of those pre-existing conditions is paid by… everyone else.
Quote from: moneil on Yesterday at 06:02:45 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/health-and-nutrition/health-insurance-advice/msg897505/#msg897505)
Hmmm… if so, I can only wonder why I still receive and my account asks for those 1095-C IRS forms.
Yes, we do pay (in premium cost) for those pre-existing conditions, that is the nature of an insurance risk pool. Washington State prohibited the “red lining” of pre-existing conditions sometime back in the 1980’s I think. A predictable result was that several insurance companies pulled out of the Washington market and I think our premium costs were higher than some other states. On the other hand, a person born with Type 1 (juvenile) diabetes, epilepsy, a congenital heart defect (to give just a very few examples) began to have their health plan cover all of their medical needs, which is the purpose of health insurance.
As for “the penalty”, I did a search to see what the penalty was for not having health insurance. I read that the federal penalty had been eliminated in 2019 during the Trump administration but I didn’t delve into it further. The article said that some states impose their own penalty (Washington does not have an income tax and has never had “this penalty”). You may need this form for your state. Also, it may be more efficient to do a blanket issue than to figure out who needs what.
This form also may be applicable for Medicare recipients. At age 65 U.S. citizens sign up for Medicare Part A (sometimes called the “original Medicare”), which covers hospitalizations, skilled nursing care, some rehab services and there is no charge for it. People can also sign up for Medicare Part B, which is a more traditional health plan (doctor visits, diagnostics and treatments, surgery, etc.) but does not cover prescription drugs. I pay $145.63 per month for Part B and it has a $250 annual deductible. Part B is optional, however if someone declines Part B and does not have other coverage, in the future if they want to subscribe to Part B they will have to pay a premium penalty forever (10% I think). For a time after I enrolled in Part A I declined Part B as I also had other employer provided insurance. I submitted proof of this other insurance and 2-3 years later when I no longer had it and wanted to sign up for Part B I was able to do so without a penalty.
If you're going to get Medicare, get Part B. You're screwed without it, if you have medical expenses that fall outside Part A. I think my mother's Part B costs about $200 per month, and she had massive medical expenses earlier this year due to a health crisis. She was hospitalized for about three weeks and the total cost to her (3 days in hospital and 19 days in in-patient rehab) was only about $5000. Without any insurance at all, it would have been $50-$60K.
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This ʝʊdɛօ-Luciferian death-cult/slave-cult shit show needs to end… pronto.
Needed to never start. Once started, needed to end immediately. Now, we must humbly accept that this is a notable part of our own chastisement for being faithless, gutless, etc.
The purification will come, but it will be painful.
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Seem to be somewhat immoral, though, to deliberately go uninsured when you could afford it, since the costs are being passed along to those who are paying for insurance, who are therefore having to pay higher premiums as a result. I'm not saying that was your situation, but I wouldn't advise going uninsured just to save money (hoping your debts will get written off or reduced), since you'd be passing the costs onto others, which is the equivalent of theft.
Who said I could afford it?
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Needed to never start. Once started, needed to end immediately. Now, we must humbly accept that this is a notable part of our own chastisement for being faithless, gutless, etc.
The purification will come, but it will be painful.
A few people on CI despise him for saying so, but Michael Hoffman has well-docuмented Catholic defections at high levels that have advanced the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan's agenda.
Yes, we deserve this chastisement for our tepidity and faithlessness. As there are perfidious jews, so too there are perfidious "Catholics."
The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome
by Michael Hoffman,
ISBN 978-0990954729
available at https://truthfulhistory.blogspot.com/2017/05/new-book-occult-renaissance-church-of.html (https://truthfulhistory.blogspot.com/2017/05/new-book-occult-renaissance-church-of.html)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aAtAaBseHmg/WQd_Dqy4a8I/AAAAAAAACyE/Trf8ihpbhQAfohPElwO-fLYpGWwUZVOZQCLcB/s640/final-romebook-front-cover.jpg)
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A few people on CI despise him for saying so, but Michael Hoffman has well-docuмented Catholic defections at high levels that have advanced the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan's agenda.
Yes, we deserve this chastisement for our tepidity and faithlessness. As there are perfidious Jєωs, so too there are perfidious "Catholics."
The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome
by Michael Hoffman,
ISBN 978-0990954729
available at https://truthfulhistory.blogspot.com/2017/05/new-book-occult-renaissance-church-of.html (https://truthfulhistory.blogspot.com/2017/05/new-book-occult-renaissance-church-of.html)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aAtAaBseHmg/WQd_Dqy4a8I/AAAAAAAACyE/Trf8ihpbhQAfohPElwO-fLYpGWwUZVOZQCLcB/s640/final-romebook-front-cover.jpg)
When I saw this, I looked on Amazon Kindle and it was available, and I had enough bonus points (from selecting Amazon Day shipping) to get it for a dollar and some change, but then I saw the Haydock Bible available for not much more.
I went with the Haydock Bible. I figured I might as well use the points now, rather than let them lie fallow, forget about them, and let them expire. In the long run, the Haydock will probably be of more benefit to me. It has hot links to the commentary.
Fun fact, I had Saturday Night Live on one night (this was a year or two ago), looked up, and they had some sort of show set in a library with a very large Bible facing forward on the shelf. I thought "that looks mighty familiar", and sure enough, it was the Haydock.
I shared this on CI some time back:
https://www.cathinfo.com/the-sacred-catholic-liturgy-chant-prayers/haydock-bible-used-as-a-prop-on-saturday-night-live (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-sacred-catholic-liturgy-chant-prayers/haydock-bible-used-as-a-prop-on-saturday-night-live)
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The self- pay price of a procedure is usually about a third of the billed price to insurance for the same procedure. If you read your statements, the billed price is usually never paid as the insurance companies negotiate a lower rate with each hospital system, but the Hospital bills the astronomical rate so their end result will be higher percentage-wise. I paid 350 self pay price for an 850 CT scan. (or was that an MRI, I forgot)
Many times self pay is way cheaper than inflated insurance premiums and huge (10,000) deductibles. What's wrong with cash? I have medicare now, but If I didn't I would only buy a catastrophic policy and keep the premiums as low as possible. Like Glad said, it's all a total scam. The hospitals are awash in printed money. I used to believe that someone who didn't pay was taking something away from me who was footing the bill, but now I know that's what the government wants you to think to pit you against and be in contention with your neighbor instead of the zionist monsters orchestrating this intentionally.. Like when Bill Gates said " Should we pay a million dollars in healthcare for the last year of a person's life, or pay for 10 teachers instead?"- Manufactured socially engineered bullshit
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The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome
by Michael Hoffman,
Great book, as are all of his works. Have them all. Was blessed to meet him and share a lengthy coffee shop conversation with him years ago. Really good man.
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Great book, as are all of his works. Have them all. Was blessed to meet him and share a lengthy coffee shop conversation with him years ago. Really good man.
Is he a practicing traditional Catholic?