Author Topic: Veganism acceptable for Catholics? (Read 5751 times)

Matthew · « **Reply #75 on:** May 24, 2018, 11:23:02 PM »

PG,

I haven't yet addressed the little dig you threw at me, "Veganism the CI version of h0Ɩ0cαųst denial?"

Veganism is simply not favored by most Catholics. As a group, we generally don't like it. We give up meat on Fridays and other fast days, and that's plenty for us. We do it for penance, not because we prefer it, for health reasons, to imitate Hollywood celebrities, to be politically correct or trendy, to be kind to animals, or for Mother Earth.

Catholics know that God gave us animals to be our meat, and most of us are more than happy to take Him up on the kind offer. Even those who choose to abstain from meat know that meat is not forbidden.

CathInfo has no equivalent of "h0Ɩ0cαųst denial", which is an underhanded Jєωιѕн tactic of murdering the credibility, reputation, career, etc. of anyone who would dare oppose them.
There are no "forbidden" topics of investigation or discussion on CathInfo. You can discuss any news item, political, religious, ecclesiastical, scientific or historical event or situation you wish (please post in the correct subforum, of course).

Why would a truth lover like me (the owner and moderator of CathInfo) use a Jєωιѕн underhanded tactic, which is completely opposed to all that is fair, good and truthful? Is that what you think of me? You don't have to stay on this forum, you know. If you think CathInfo is unfair, evil, or that we use Jєωιѕн tactics to arbitrarily shut down discussions, you're welcome to leave at any time. As a matter of fact, any more disrespect like that, and you might not have a choice about staying or leaving. Yes, this is your one warning.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #76 on:** May 25, 2018, 01:00:14 AM »

.
I was shopping at Costco the other day and I couldn't believe my eyes.
It was in the Deli refrigerator shelves, and it wasn't a typo.
Packages of shredded pork were labeled: "Vegetarian-fed."
So you can get pork from vegetarian pigs!
I looked real hard but couldn't find any claim that this means it's vegetarian pork.
But "Vegetarian-fed" sure sounds close.

trad123 · « **Reply #77 on:** May 25, 2018, 01:28:04 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat on May 25, 2018, 01:00:14 AM

So you can get pork from vegetarian pigs!

Won't pigs pretty much eat anything? Not to say I'm bothered by pigs eating meat.

jen51 · « **Reply #78 on:** May 25, 2018, 08:34:14 AM »

Quote from: trad123 on May 25, 2018, 01:28:04 AM

Won't pigs pretty much eat anything? Not to say I'm bothered by pigs eating meat.

They will. Most if given the opportunity will eat any kind of meat presented to them both in wild and domestic settings.
We are always careful around pigs. It's not unheard of for someone to fall in the pig pen and get eaten by pigs. We lost a little weakling lamb earlier this year to this kind of mob behavior in pigs.

jen51 · « **Reply #79 on:** May 25, 2018, 08:40:12 AM »

Quote from: PG on May 22, 2018, 01:44:45 PM

And, yes, a traditional plant based diet would fix the problem that our culture seems to have with masturbation and pornography use.

:confused:Surely you're not saying a diet change is a 100% cure for avoiding sin...

PG · « **Reply #80 on:** May 25, 2018, 11:31:16 AM »

Quote from: jen51 on May 25, 2018, 08:40:12 AM

:confused:Surely you're not saying a diet change is a 100% cure for avoiding sin...

In my opinion it goes a long way, but I have to re emphasize that I said traditional. All the modern plant based diet or vegan trends are not traditional. Most of what the vegans eat are modern blended science experiments. And, the blender didn't come into existence probably until the 50's. And, back then people probably didn't feel the need for the raw plant based diet sacrifice that is on the rise today. With that said, I clarify, the blender is a novelty. And, the blender is inseparable from the raw food vegan movement. None of these I regard as "traditional". Traditionally plant based diets are simple diets, because the people grew it themselves. And, a traditional plant based diet goes a long way in combating the temptations of our day, to the point where I feel comfortable enough stating it in a one liner.

1st Mansion Tenant · « **Reply #81 on:** May 25, 2018, 11:39:21 AM »

Quote from: jen51 on May 25, 2018, 08:34:14 AM

They will. Most if given the opportunity will eat any kind of meat presented to them both in wild and domestic settings.
We are always careful around pigs. It's not unheard of for someone to fall in the pig pen and get eaten by pigs. We lost a little weakling lamb earlier this year to this kind of mob behavior in pigs.

The worst whippin' I ever received as a kid was caused by my being caught playing on the fence of grandpa's pigpen after being told to keep away from there because they were dangerous. A family anecdote: My tiny aunt was married to a huge man who had a penchant for coming home drunk and beating on her. One night he came home drunk and somehow fell into the pig-pen where they kept several hogs. My aunt was too weak to pull him out to safety, so was forced to stand over him all night and chase the pigs off with a big stick until he woke up. She told him that next time she'd let them have him... He stopped drinking.

jen51 · « **Reply #82 on:** May 25, 2018, 12:08:13 PM »

Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant on May 25, 2018, 11:39:21 AM

The worst whippin' I ever received as a kid was caused by my being caught playing on the fence of grandpa's pigpen after being told to keep away from there because they were dangerous. A family anecdote: My tiny aunt was married to a huge man who had a penchant for coming home drunk and beating on her. One night he came home drunk and somehow fell into the pig-pen where they kept several hogs. My aunt was too weak to pull him out to safety, so was forced to stand over him all night and chase the pigs off with a big stick until he woke up. She told him that next time she'd let them have him... He stopped drinking.

What a story! God Bless her.

jen51 · « **Reply #83 on:** May 25, 2018, 12:30:50 PM »

Quote from: PG on May 25, 2018, 11:31:16 AM

In my opinion it goes a long way, but I have to re emphasize that I said traditional. All the modern plant based diet or vegan trends are not traditional. Most of what the vegans eat are modern blended science experiments. And, the blender didn't come into existence probably until the 50's. And, back then people probably didn't feel the need for the raw plant based diet sacrifice that is on the rise today. With that said, I clarify, the blender is a novelty. And, the blender is inseparable from the raw food vegan movement. None of these I regard as "traditional". Traditionally plant based diets are simple diets, because the people grew it themselves. And, a traditional plant based diet goes a long way in combating the temptations of our day, to the point where I feel comfortable enough stating it in a one liner.

I agree with you to a limited extent in that the soul and the body are closely tied. I do think the way we feed ourselves affects our spiritual lives. Many writings of the saints confirm this. But even a traditional plant based diet is in no way a complete remedy to sins of the flesh. I can't recall off the top of my head any saints who condemned meat eating. The examples I'm thinking of talk about using meat and drink sparingly to keep the flesh in check.
Sin is a spiritual problem. I mean, do you think people who ate traditional plant based diets before today's food economy never committed sins of the flesh on traditional plant based diets? Surely they did.
And besides that, traditional diets (completely separate from weird things like Hinduism) were rarely vegan. People didn't have time to worry about that. Veganism would be a silly notion to them. Depending upon what part of the world they lived on, they lived on local food that they grew or caught, and most often thrived. The connection they had to their food produced a natural sort of wisdom in eating just from the fact they grew it or caught it themselves.
Have you ever heard of Weston A. Price? He was a dentist by trade, but an excellent anthropologist. He traveled the world studying different cultures and the traditional foods they ate. I find his findings absolutely intriguing. Like you, he knew that when food was tampered with or not prepared correctly, the people's health would suffer. But His findings are pretty clear that Veganism isn't even a relavent topic to traditional diets worldwide.

PG · « **Reply #84 on:** May 25, 2018, 01:34:02 PM »

Quote from: jen51 on May 25, 2018, 12:30:50 PM

I agree with you to a limited extent in that the soul and the body are closely tied. I do think the way we feed ourselves affects our spiritual lives. Many writings of the saints confirm this. But even a traditional plant based diet is in no way a complete remedy to sins of the flesh. I can't recall off the top of my head any saints who condemned meat eating. The examples I'm thinking of talk about using meat and drink sparingly to keep the flesh in check.
Sin is a spiritual problem. I mean, do you think people who ate traditional plant based diets before today's food economy never committed sins of the flesh on traditional plant based diets? Surely they did.
And besides that, traditional diets (completely separate from weird things like Hinduism) were rarely vegan. People didn't have time to worry about that. Veganism would be a silly notion to them. Depending upon what part of the world they lived on, they lived on local food that they grew or caught, and most often thrived. The connection they had to their food produced a natural sort of wisdom in eating just from the fact they grew it or caught it themselves.
Have you ever heard of Weston A. Price? He was a dentist by trade, but an excellent anthropologist. He traveled the world studying different cultures and the traditional foods they ate. I find his findings absolutely intriguing. Like you, he knew that when food was tampered with or not prepared correctly, the people's health would suffer. But His findings are pretty clear that Veganism isn't even a relavent topic to traditional diets worldwide.

My comment was a response to geremia who quoted I think aquinas about the connection between consuming fleshmeat and sins of the flesh.
I strictly argued it would help stop our societies problem of sins against masturbation and pornography. It is not a remedy to sins against the faith, which often involve direct promotion of sins of the flesh. But, last I checked, there are no established religions/religious movements that promote masterbation and pornography as something divine. So, that is a different matter, not to be confused with what I had to say.
I bring up veganism because that is ultimately matthews motivation to censor the video I posted. Don't waste your time posting a big response to that matthew. I do not have a cult following here at CI, and you have better things to do. Beyond that, I do not condemn eating meat. I condemn the modern meat industry practices, and attack its by-product. But, I do not condemn traditional diets and cultures, that have always included the consumption of animal products.
I will look into weston price. I hope he is good. Because, my opinion is that most are not.

Geremia · « **Reply #85 on:** May 25, 2018, 06:54:27 PM »

Quote from: PG on May 25, 2018, 01:34:02 PM

the connection between consuming fleshmeat and sins of the flesh.

Yes, here's the full quote:

Quote from: Geremia on May 22, 2018, 01:03:48 PM

Summa Theologica II-II q. 147 a. 8 co.

:

Quote

fasting was instituted by the Church in order to bridle the concupiscences of the flesh, which regard pleasures of touch in connection with food and sex. Wherefore the Church forbade those who fast to partake of those foods which both afford most pleasure to the palate, and besides are a very great incentive to lust. Such are the flesh of animals that take their rest on the earth, and of those that breathe the air and their products, such as milk from those that walk on the earth, and eggs from birds. For, since such like animals are more like man in body, they afford greater pleasure as food, and greater nourishment to the human body, so that from their consumption there results a greater surplus available for seminal matter, which when abundant becomes a great incentive to lust. Hence the Church has bidden those who fast to abstain especially from these foods.

Matto · « **Reply #86 on:** June 06, 2018, 10:27:21 AM »

Quote from: Matthew on May 24, 2018, 11:23:02 PM

Veganism is simply not favored by most Catholics. As a group, we generally don't like it. We give up meat on Fridays and other fast days, and that's plenty for us. We do it for penance, not because we prefer it, for health reasons, to imitate Hollywood celebrities, to be politically correct or trendy, to be kind to animals, or for Mother Earth.

I think veganism is good. If I were Pope I would promote it heavily (or at least quasi-veganism). I would have all my priests and religious eating almost like vegans (especially Father Z). People say there are certain nutrients that are lacking in a vegan diet. Most commonly B12 and EPA. If this is true I would recommend taking vitamins or eating a little meat or fish every once in a while to meet those nutritional needs. But I think the ideal is to eat almost nothing but bread like the desert fathers. I think it is more beautiful to eat this way and it is an aesthetic preference as well as a spiritual one. I prefer eating simply myself but I do eat meat on occasion. I do not think it is a sin to eat meat. People say it is more penitential to not eat meat and that it helps subdue the passions. So I think we should do more penance in this time of crisis and subdue our passions in this age of overwhelming temptation. But in my own case I do not see it as very penitential to not eat much meat, though it may help subdue the passions. I do not eat much meat and it is not difficult. Fasting by eating less food is a real penance and is difficult at least for me and that is good as well, but not everyone can do that. Everyone can eat less meat.

Author Topic: Veganism acceptable for Catholics? (Read 5751 times)

Matthew

Re: Veganism acceptable for Catholics?

Neil Obstat

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trad123

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jen51

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jen51

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PG

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1st Mansion Tenant

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jen51

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jen51

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PG

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Geremia

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Matto

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