7. The saying of the apostle, that "to the pure all things are pure," and that "every creature of God is good (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06636b.htm)," is not opposed to the prohibitions of the Old Testament (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14526a.htm); and the explanation, if they can understand it, is this. The apostle speaks of the natures of the things, while the Old Testament (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14526a.htm) calls some animals unclean, not in their nature, but symbolically (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14373b.htm), on account of the prefigurative character of that dispensation. For instance, a pig and a lamb are both clean in their nature, for every creature of God is good (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06636b.htm); but symbolically (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14373b.htm), a lamb is clean, and a pig unclean. So the words wise and fool are both clean in their nature, as words composed of letters but fool may be called symbolically (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14373b.htm) unclean, because it means an unclean thing. Perhaps a pig is the same among symbols (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14373b.htm) as a fool is among real things. The animal, and the four letters which compose the word, may mean the same thing. No doubt (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05141a.htm) the animal is pronounced unclean by the law, because it does not chew the cud; which is not a fault but its nature. But the men of whom this animal is a symbol (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14373b.htm) are unclean, not by nature, but from their own fault; because, though they gladly hear the words of wisdom, they never reflect on them afterwards. For to recall, in quiet repose, some useful instruction from the stomach of memory to the mouth of reflection, is a kind of spiritual rumination. The animals above mentioned are a symbol (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14373b.htm) of those people who do not do this. And the prohibition of the flesh of these animals is a warning against this fault. Another passage of Scripture speaks of the precious treasure of wisdom, and describes ruminating as clean, and not ruminating as unclean: "A precious treasure rests in the mouth of a wise man; but a foolish man swallows it up." Proverbs 21:20 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/pro021.htm#verse20)Symbols of this kind, either in words or in things, give useful and pleasant exercise to intelligent minds in the way of inquiry and comparison. But formerly people were required not only to hear, but to practise many such things. For at that time it was necessary that, by deeds (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01115a.htm) as well as by words, those things should be foreshadowed which were in after times to be revealed. After the revelation by Christ and in Christ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm), the community of believers (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05769a.htm) is not burdened with the practice of the observances, but is admonished to give heed to the prophecy (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12473a.htm). This is our reason for accounting no animals unclean, in accordance with the saying of the Lord and of the apostle, while we are not opposed to the Old Testament (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14526a.htm), where some animals are pronounced unclean.
"Do not eat unclean animals" still applies to Christians. God does not deem unclean animals to be clean.Did you ever read the Book of Acts written by St. Luke?
| Acts 10 ► https://biblehub.com/drb/acts/10.htm Douay-Rheims Bible Cornelius Sends for Peter 1 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-1.htm)AND there was a certain man in Caesarea, named Cornelius, a centurion of that which is called the Italian band; 2 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-2.htm)A religious man, and fearing God with all his house, giving much alms to the people, and always praying to God. 3 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-3.htm)This man saw in a vision manifestly, about the ninth hour of the day, an angel of God coming in unto him, and saying to him: Cornelius. 4 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-4.htm)And he, beholding him, being seized with fear, said: What is it, Lord? And he said to him: Thy prayers and thy alms are ascended for a memorial in the sight of God. 5 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-5.htm)And now send men to Joppe, and call hither one Simon, who is surnamed Peter: 6 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-6.htm)He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side. He will tell thee what thou must do. 7 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-7.htm)And when the angel who spoke to him was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a soldier who feared the Lord, of them that were under him. 8 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-8.htm)To whom when he had related all, he sent them to Joppe. Peter's Vision (Leviticus 11:1-47 (https://biblehub.com/drb/leviticus/11.htm); Deuteronomy 14:1-21 (https://biblehub.com/drb/deuteronomy/14.htm)) 9 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-9.htm)And on the next day, whilst they were going on their journey, and drawing nigh to the city, Peter went up to the higher parts of the house to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-10.htm)And being hungry, he was desirous to taste somewhat. And as they were preparing, there came upon him an ecstasy of mind. 11 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-11.htm)And he saw the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as it were a great linen sheet let down by the four corners from heaven to the earth: 12 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-12.htm)Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts, and creeping things of the earth, and fowls of the air. 13 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-13.htm)And there came a voice to him: Arise, Peter; kill and eat. 14 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-14.htm)But Peter said: Far be it from me; for I never did eat any thing that is common and unclean. 15 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-15.htm)And the voice spoke to him again the second time: That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common. 16 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-16.htm)And this was done thrice; and presently the vessel was taken up into heaven. Peter Summoned to Caesarea 17 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-17.htm)Now, whilst Peter was doubting within himself, what the vision that he had seen should mean, behold the men who were sent from Cornelius, inquiring for Simon's house, stood at the gate. 18 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-18.htm)And when they had called, they asked, if Simon, who is surnamed Peter, were lodged there. 19 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-19.htm)And as Peter was thinking of the vision, the Spirit said to him: Behold three men seek thee. 20 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-20.htm)Arise, therefore, get thee down and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. 21 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-21.htm)Then Peter, going down to the men, said: Behold, I am he whom you seek; what is the cause for which you are come? 22 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-22.htm)Who said: Cornelius, a centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and having good testimony from all the nation of the Jєωs, received an answer of an holy angel, to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee. 23 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-23.htm)Then bringing them in, he lodged them. And the day following he arose, and went with them: and some of the brethren from Joppe accompanied him. Peter at Caesarea 24 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-24.htm)And the morrow after, he entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, having called together his kinsmen and special friends. 25 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-25.htm)And it came to pass, that when Peter was come in, Cornelius came to meet him, Cornelius came to meet him, and falling at his feet adored. 26 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-26.htm)But Peter lifted him up, saying: Arise, I myself also am a man. 27 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-27.htm)And talking with him, he went in, and found many that were come together. 28 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-28.htm)And he said to them: You know how abominable it is for a man that is a Jєω, to keep company or to come unto one of another nation: but God hath shewed to me, to call no man common or unclean. 29 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-29.htm)For which cause, making no doubt, I came when I was sent for. I ask, therefore, for what cause you have sent for me? 30 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-30.htm)And Cornelius said: Four days ago, unto this hour, I was praying in my house, at the ninth hour, and behold a man stood before me in white apparel, and said: 31 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-31.htm)Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thy alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God. 32 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-32.htm)Send therefore to Joppe, and call hither Simon, who is surnamed Peter: he lodgeth in the house of Simon a tanner, by the sea side. 33 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-33.htm)Immediately therefore I sent to thee: and thou hast done well in coming. Now therefore all we are present in thy sight, to hear all things whatsoever are commanded thee by the Lord. The Gentiles Hear the Good News 34 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-34.htm)And Peter opening his mouth, said: In very deed I perceive, that God is not a respecter of persons. 35 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-35.htm)But in every nation, he that feareth him, and worketh justice, is acceptable to him. 36 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-36.htm)God sent the word to the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all.) 37 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-37.htm)You know the word which hath been published through all Judea: for it began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached, 38 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-38.htm)Jesus of Nazareth: how God anointed him with the Holy Ghost, and with power, who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. 39 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-39.htm)And we are witnesses of all things that he did in the land of the Jєωs and in Jerusalem, whom they killed, hanging him upon a tree. 40 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-40.htm)Him God raised up the third day, and gave him to be made manifest, 41 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-41.htm)Not to all the people, but to witnesses preordained by God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he arose again from the dead; 42 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-42.htm)And he commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is he who was appointed by God, to be judge of the living and of the dead. 43 (https://biblehub.com/acts/10-43.htm)To him all the prophets give testimony, that by his name all receive remission of sins, who believe in him. |
I gave your post a thumbs-up as it proves we are not allowed to eat unclean animals.It says that up until that time Peter had not eaten unclean animals. This changed after he was commanded by God to consider all food as clean.
The Acts Of The Apostles 10:14
It says that up until that time Peter had not eaten unclean animals. This changed after he was commanded by God to consider all food as clean.Interesting, when did St. Peter change his diet and start eating meats that were considered unclean by the Jєωs?
After this he ate food that had formerly been considered unclean.
Interesting, when did St. Peter change his diet and start eating meats that were considered unclean by the Jєωs?It is implied that he did this when it says that he ate with Gentiles. They almost certainly had unclean foods there. Regardless of the food served, eating with them was in itself a breaking of the kosher laws. They themselves were unclean. So eating there means he is no longer following Jєωιѕн laws.
You are understanding Our Lord's words exactly the way that Catholics have always understood them. There is no Church teaching otherwise.So long as we're not talking bizarre things, like cannibalism, coprophagia, or other weird pica-like items. When you place Jesus' own words in Matt 15 along with Peter's vision of being told the animals he was shown were "that which God has cleansed." Yeah. But I am no theologian, and I will stand corrected if someone can show me Catholic teaching otherwise.
Would you still eat unclean animals if you found out God is against us eating unclean animals?
Why not just choose to eat clean animals?
If St. John can eat locusts, I can eat pork.Actually locusts were permitted. They are mentioned in Leviticus 11:
Actually locusts were permitted. They are mentioned in Leviticus 11:You missed my point.
[21] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=3&ch=11&l=21-#x) But whatsoever walketh upon four feet, but hath the legs behind longer, wherewith it hoppeth upon the earth, [22] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=3&ch=11&l=22-#x) That you shall eat, as the bruchus in its kind, the attacus, and ophiomachus, and the locust, every one according to their kind.
You missed my point.I was just throwing that in as Bible trivia. You are right that it is not relevant to the discussion.
All animals are fair game (pun intended).
This is an asinine discussion for Catholics.
I was just throwing that in as Bible trivia. You are right that it is not relevant to the discussion.What people forget is that we are to have the simple Faith of a child.
This is asinine, but I think it is important to come down hard on it due to its association with heresy. St. John Chrysostom, for example, was dealing with Judaizers in his community and he did a series of homilies against it, using strong, emotional language. This is serious.
A link to the homilies if anyone is interested: http://www.ccjr.us/dialogika-resources/primary-texts-from-the-history-of-the-relationship/247-chrysostom (http://www.ccjr.us/dialogika-resources/primary-texts-from-the-history-of-the-relationship/247-chrysostom)
What people forget is that we are to have the simple Faith of a child.I am the mother of a family. The duties of my state of life include things like shopping for food, planning and making meals, and trying to keep my children healthy. I do not have the option of not thinking about what we eat. If I were to do that it would be irresponsible, probably to the point of being sinful.
Do children worry about what they eat? No, they are to eat what is put before them, just as the New Testament tells us to do.
Keep the Faith simple.
I am the mother of a family. The duties of my state of life include things like shopping for food, planning and making meals, and trying to keep my children healthy. I do not have the option of not thinking about what we eat. If I were to do that it would be irresponsible, probably to the point of being sinful.Unless you are feeding your family 100% organic food you are still putting dung before your family.
I suspect that only a minority of adults have duties that allow them to merely eat what is before them without giving it any thought. If they do, it does not mean that their faith is better, simpler, or more childlike than those of us who are responsible for feeding people.
Catholics are not supposed to eat dung.Do you eat beef?
That is the main problem. This crisis of many people not being able to afford to eat clean meat is a manufactured crisis. Hopefully this will all soon change.Grass-fed beef and lamb are especially healthy kinds of meat (although there is no command binding on Catholics stopping us from eating anything else). They are significantly more expensive than most other meats, in part because they take more resources to produce. Most people could benefit from eating a smaller quantity of meat and use the savings to buy better quality.
Grass-fed beef and lamb are especially healthy kinds of meat (although there is no command binding on Catholics stopping us from eating anything else). They are significantly more expensive than most other meats, in part because they take more resources to produce. Most people could benefit from eating a smaller quantity of meat and use the savings to buy better quality.Support your local farmer/rancher.
Support your local farmer/rancher.While I agree with your recommendation, I suspect that the "average family" is not going to have the skills to do this. I have the impression that a large proportion of young people now do not know how to cook from scratch and would be overwhelmed by the unfamiliar cuts and meat by-products.
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Join with other families and buy a grass fed cow and have it butchered. Where i live it costs about $3 per lb of meat you get back. This way the ground is the same price as the filet mignon. Price does vary depending upon the type of cow purchased (Waygu, Angus, jersey, etc).
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And you can get the organs (for you or your dog), bones (for you or your dog), and excess fat (for tallow Or soap making), free with the processing.
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So there is no real excuse for the average family not to have good beef.
While I agree with your recommendation, I suspect that the "average family" is not going to have the skills to do this. I have the impression that a large proportion of young people now do not know how to cook from scratch and would be overwhelmed by the unfamiliar cuts and meat by-products.It's not that hard... I knew nothing about it a few years ago, but it's easy to learn. there are charts online of what cuts come from which area of a side of beef. And a good local butcher will help you.
I am not sure what I can do about this at the level of society, but it indicates what sort of skills I need to convey to my daughters.
We are not eating dung in properly managed food. Aged manure put in gardens has nothing to do with eating dung. The vegetables get the nutrients from the aged manure. We are not eating the manure.Do you eat out or buy ready to eat food? Do you know how often people preparing your food don't wash their hands after going to the bathroom?
I am not sure what I can do about this at the level of society, but it indicates what sort of skills I need to convey to my daughters.Show by example.
It's not that hard... I knew nothing about it a few years ago, but it's easy to learn. there are charts online of what cuts come from which area of a side of beef. And a good local butcher will help you.I suggest starting a new thread devoted to this topic. People might not see it here and this is important, useful information. Others might have tips or questions.
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And if it's that overwhelming, get the cuts you use. It's all $3 per lb in the end.
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Beef is beef. Unless you are a beef connoisseur you will not be able to tell the difference between the breeds.
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The only thing to be cautious of is age of the animal. I learned the hard way. Beef over 2.5 years old has pretty tough steaks. Over 4 years old and even the roasts are tough. You can get ground out of even a 25 year old cow, which is fine, as long as you are aware.
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As for the meat by-products, I used to not take them. Little by little I learned what to do with them so I now I have very little waste.
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I also recommend:
- the first time you use a butcher, tour his facility to make sure it is clean
- the first time you buy from a rancher, go to the farm/ranch and see how his animals live
- DO NOT BUY A BULL. It will taste terrible. A neutered bull (steer) is fine.
- a chest or upright freezer
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Any questions, I would be happy to answer.
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Yes, it takes time in the beginning, but it is very worth it both for your body and for your pocketbook.
I'm curious which foods you are referring to. Any examples? Not that we eat much pre-packaged food, but still...
Are you aware that many packaged foods actually list roaches as an ingredient (by their latin or other name)?
I would expect this sort of poll from a Seventh Day Adventist forum, not a Traditional Catholic forum. :confused:I was thinking the same thing. 7th Dayers are the only Protty sect I can think of that follow Judaic dietary laws.
I follow Biblical dietary Catholic laws.Outside of the fast and abstinence laws of the Church, and the rules of some religious orders such as the Benedictines and Trappists, what in the world are "Biblical dietary Catholic laws"?
I'm curious which foods you are referring to. Any examples? Not that we eat much pre-packaged food, but still...I will get those examples for you.
Really good practical suggestions, Fanny. Especially about visiting the farm and seeing how the animals are raised. Unfortunately, "free range" "cage free", or "grass fed" animals aren't raised (or treated) much better than their sweat-shop counterparts.
We live in an ag area where many animals are raised industrially for meat. The free-range, cage-free chickens? Raised in the same enclosure regular hens are. No windows. There is a gate about 12 x 20 ft surrounding a grassy area, with a ramp leading down from a point high in the wall that no hen could access unless they're great jumpers! It doesn't matter, because the door is always shut. They are cage-free, though. If that makes you feel any better.
And then, once egg production is reached, and they're starting in their molt, they're gassed just like the regular hens and tossed out the door into the waiting semis, where they haul them all--whether dead or still partially alive--to a dog food plant.
Please don't even get me started on hogs, beef, and dairy!!!
So Fanny, good for you! Great job for encouraging others, too. I would add that it would be a great idea to be able to keep a few chickens for eggs. There's lots of mini houses out there that would fit into someone's backyard, even if they live in town.
Read the Holy Bible and you will find out.Sure!
God does not give humans the right to eat unclean animals.God does not give to laymen the right to private interpretation of Holy Scripture.
I'm curious which foods you are referring to. Any examples? Not that we eat much pre-packaged food, but still...I can't find it now... read about it years ago.
I'm not sure how to vote. Portion size and quality counts too.Vote yes. I say this because I know by all your postings that you are Catholic.
I just finished watching Forks over Knives. It was interesting.
God makes it very clear in the Bible that we are not supposed to eat unclean animals.Again...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5UUeusgm8&t=165s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5UUeusgm8&t=165s)Argument using a king James bible?
Argument using a king James bible?It is obvious that he is basing his ideas on Protestant rather than Catholic sources. And even most Protestants know better. No educated Catholic would ever make these sorts of claims. It isn't even controversial that there is no obligation to follow Jєωιѕн dietary laws. It has been part of Church teaching going back to New Testament times.
I'm out. TiE, you have no business on a traditional Catholic board.
Vote yes. I say this because I know by all your postings that you are Catholic.Exactly. There is only one poll response open to Catholics. The other is a heretical position. It is shocking that anybody voted for it.
Nowhere in the Holy Bible does God give any person the right to eat unclean animals. Do you want a list of animals in the Bible which are considered by God to be unclean?Do you also teach that Catholics must be circuмcised? Should we keep the Sabbath on Saturday?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuhM4Ha_mds&t=31s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuhM4Ha_mds&t=31s)This video is produced by a group called Good Purpose Ministries. It is a heretical sect. It obviously adopts the sola scriptura heresy. Also, this video links to another by the same group explaining why Christians must keep the Sabbath on Saturday. They are judaizers. There is no doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f54uW7TUkeA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f54uW7TUkeA)I've got new for you...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuhM4Ha_mds&t=31s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuhM4Ha_mds&t=31s)Protestant 100%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv8Cik26DeM&t=41s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv8Cik26DeM&t=41s)This video is so stupid. It doesn't know what it's talking about...
Protestant 100%
They are right that we are not supposed to eat unclean meat.The exact same heretical assumptions that lead them to say we must keep the Sabbath on Saturday lead them to say we should not eat unclean meat. They (and you) do not understand how to correctly interpret the Old Testament.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv8Cik26DeM&t=41s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv8Cik26DeM&t=41s)
I eat bacon (from quality sources) and am grateful, both because it is delicious and because it is a symbol of how Christ makes us free from the Law.
God is the one who revealed to us that we should not eat unclean meats.This is what Wikipedia says of the speaker in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSjkpiV8xUA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSjkpiV8xUA)
Walter Julius Veith (born 1949) is a South African (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African) zoologist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoologist) and a Seventh-day Adventist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist) author and speaker known for his work in nutrition, creationism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism) and Biblical exegesis with the Amazing Discoveries media ministry and on their international television networkYou keep getting your information from heretics. Can't you see this is a problem?
Over a decade ago, one of my aunts elderly neighbors died in his pig pen and it didn't take long before pigs started eating him. Pigs are very unclean.You are free to decide that pigs are not a healthy food source and to refrain from eating them. (Some people, however, will disagree.) You are not free to say that Jєωιѕн ritual laws from the Old Testament are binding on Catholics. The latter is a heresy.
Well, yes, he is protestant. But does he say anything specific that goes against actual Catholic Church teaching?