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Poll

Does God Give us Humans the Right to Eat Unclean Animals?

Yes, God gives humans the right to eat unclean animals?
17 (89.5%)
No, God does not give us the right to eat unclean animals?
2 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Author Topic: Grass fed Ruminants That Chew the Cud, but Divide Not the Hoof, are Clean.  (Read 4788 times)

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Offline Fanny

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  • Would you still eat unclean animals if you found out God is against us eating unclean animals?
    Why not just choose to eat clean animals?

     If St. John can eat locusts, I can eat pork.


    Offline Jaynek

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  • If St. John can eat locusts, I can eat pork.
    Actually locusts were permitted.  They are mentioned in Leviticus 11:

    [21] But whatsoever walketh upon four feet, but hath the legs behind longer, wherewith it hoppeth upon the earth, [22] That you shall eat, as the bruchus in its kind, the attacus, and ophiomachus, and the locust, every one according to their kind. 


    Offline Fanny

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  • Actually locusts were permitted.  They are mentioned in Leviticus 11:

    [21] But whatsoever walketh upon four feet, but hath the legs behind longer, wherewith it hoppeth upon the earth, [22] That you shall eat, as the bruchus in its kind, the attacus, and ophiomachus, and the locust, every one according to their kind.
    You missed my point.
    All animals are fair game (pun intended).
    This is an asinine discussion for Catholics.

    Offline Jaynek

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  • You missed my point.
    All animals are fair game (pun intended).
    This is an asinine discussion for Catholics.
    I was just throwing that in as Bible trivia.  You are right that it is not relevant to the discussion.  

    This is asinine, but I think it is important to come down hard on it due to its association with heresy.  St. John Chrysostom, for example, was dealing with Judaizers in his community and he did a series of homilies against it, using strong, emotional language.  This is serious.

    A link to the homilies if anyone is interested: http://www.ccjr.us/dialogika-resources/primary-texts-from-the-history-of-the-relationship/247-chrysostom

    Offline Marcellinus

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  • I would expect this sort of poll from a Seventh Day Adventist forum, not a Traditional Catholic forum.  :confused:


    Offline Fanny

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  • I was just throwing that in as Bible trivia.  You are right that it is not relevant to the discussion.  

    This is asinine, but I think it is important to come down hard on it due to its association with heresy.  St. John Chrysostom, for example, was dealing with Judaizers in his community and he did a series of homilies against it, using strong, emotional language.  This is serious.

    A link to the homilies if anyone is interested: http://www.ccjr.us/dialogika-resources/primary-texts-from-the-history-of-the-relationship/247-chrysostom
    What people forget is that we are to have the simple Faith of a child.  
    Do children worry about what they eat?  No, they are to eat what is put before them, just as the New Testament tells us to do.
    Keep the Faith simple.

    Offline Jaynek

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  • What people forget is that we are to have the simple Faith of a child.  
    Do children worry about what they eat?  No, they are to eat what is put before them, just as the New Testament tells us to do.
    Keep the Faith simple.
    I am the mother of a family.  The duties of my state of life include things like shopping for food, planning and making meals, and trying to keep my children healthy.  I do not have the option of not thinking about what we eat.  If I were to do that it would be irresponsible, probably to the point of being sinful.

    I suspect that only a minority of adults have duties that allow them to merely eat what is before them without giving it any thought.  If they do, it does not mean that their faith is better, simpler, or more childlike than those of us who are responsible for feeding people.

    Offline Fanny

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  • I am the mother of a family.  The duties of my state of life include things like shopping for food, planning and making meals, and trying to keep my children healthy.  I do not have the option of not thinking about what we eat.  If I were to do that it would be irresponsible, probably to the point of being sinful.

    I suspect that only a minority of adults have duties that allow them to merely eat what is before them without giving it any thought.  If they do, it does not mean that their faith is better, simpler, or more childlike than those of us who are responsible for feeding people.
    Unless you are feeding your family 100% organic food you are still putting dung before your family.
    My point is that we are to do the best we can for ourselves and our family.  God will sort out the rest.


    Offline Fanny

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  • Catholics are not supposed to eat dung.
    Do you eat beef?
    Are you aware that beef are fed their own dung?  
    Are you aware that in England and some in the US feed cow dung to pigs, pig dung to chickens, and chicken dung to cows?  It is an interesting read...  seems the nutrients one animal can't digest are utilized by the next animal.
    .
    Do you eat vegetables?
    Vegetables are covered in dung to add nutrients into the soil.  You could extrapolate, therefore, that in eating vegetables we are eating dung.
    .
    Do you eat any packaged foods?
    Are you aware that many packaged foods actually list roaches as an ingredient (by their latin or other name)?  
    .
    I could go on and on....
    .
    Point is, do the best you can within your means and leave the rest to God 

    Offline Jaynek

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  • That is the main problem. This crisis of many people not being able to afford to eat clean meat is a manufactured crisis. Hopefully this will all soon change.
    Grass-fed beef and lamb are especially healthy kinds of meat (although there is no command binding on Catholics stopping us from eating anything else).  They are significantly more expensive than most other meats, in part because they take more resources to produce.  Most people could benefit from eating a smaller quantity of meat and use the savings to buy better quality.

    There are serious problems with the standard American diet, including many food production and availability issues.   However much it is need of reform, I do not expect to see change.  There are very powerful forces that benefit from keeping things this way.

    You sense that things are very wrong (which I agree with) and perhaps that is why you are expressing your concerns about food in religious terms.  But you are coming up with objectively false statements, saying things that Catholics may not believe.

    Jєωιѕн ritual laws concerning clean and unclean food were given to foster obedience and identity as God's people.  There is nothing in Scripture to suggest that God gave these laws as a health measure.  While some people have tried to make a case that there are health benefits to the kosher laws, this has never been proven and is a minority view.

    Your ideas about healthy eating are relatively reasonable but you need to stop confusing them with religious precepts.

    Offline Fanny

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  • Grass-fed beef and lamb are especially healthy kinds of meat (although there is no command binding on Catholics stopping us from eating anything else).  They are significantly more expensive than most other meats, in part because they take more resources to produce.  Most people could benefit from eating a smaller quantity of meat and use the savings to buy better quality.
    Support your local farmer/rancher.
    .
    Join with other families and buy a grass fed cow and have it butchered.  Where i live it costs about $3 per lb of meat you get back.  This way the ground is the same price as the filet mignon.  Price does vary depending upon the type of cow purchased (Waygu, Angus, jersey, etc).
    .
    And you can get the organs (for you or your dog), bones (for you or your dog), and excess fat (for tallow Or soap making), free with the processing.
    .
    So there is no real excuse for the average family not to have good beef.


    Offline Jaynek

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  • Support your local farmer/rancher.
    .
    Join with other families and buy a grass fed cow and have it butchered.  Where i live it costs about $3 per lb of meat you get back.  This way the ground is the same price as the filet mignon.  Price does vary depending upon the type of cow purchased (Waygu, Angus, jersey, etc).
    .
    And you can get the organs (for you or your dog), bones (for you or your dog), and excess fat (for tallow Or soap making), free with the processing.
    .
    So there is no real excuse for the average family not to have good beef.
    While I agree with your recommendation, I suspect that the "average family" is not going to have the skills to do this.  I have the impression that a large proportion of young people now do not know how to cook from scratch and would be overwhelmed by the unfamiliar cuts and meat by-products.

    I am not sure what I can do about this at the level of society, but it indicates what sort of skills I need to convey to my daughters.

    Offline Fanny

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  • While I agree with your recommendation, I suspect that the "average family" is not going to have the skills to do this.  I have the impression that a large proportion of young people now do not know how to cook from scratch and would be overwhelmed by the unfamiliar cuts and meat by-products.

    I am not sure what I can do about this at the level of society, but it indicates what sort of skills I need to convey to my daughters.
    It's not that hard...  I knew nothing about it a few years ago, but it's easy to learn.  there are charts online of what cuts come from which area of a side of beef.  And a good local butcher will help you.
    .
    And if it's that overwhelming, get the cuts you use.  It's all $3 per lb in the end.  
    .
    Beef is beef.  Unless you are a beef connoisseur you will not be able to tell the difference between the breeds.
    .
    The only thing to be cautious of is age of the animal.  I learned the hard way.  Beef over 2.5 years old has pretty tough steaks.  Over 4 years old and even the roasts are tough.  You can get ground out of even a 25 year old cow, which is fine, as long as you are aware.
    .
    As for the meat by-products, I used to not take them.  Little by little I learned what to do with them so I now I have very little waste.
    .
    I also recommend:
    - the first time you use a butcher, tour his facility to make sure it is clean
    - the first time you buy from a rancher, go to the farm/ranch and see how his animals live
    - DO NOT BUY A BULL.  It will taste terrible.  A neutered bull (steer) is fine.
    - a chest or upright freezer
    .
    Any questions, I would be happy to answer.
    .
    Yes, it takes time in the beginning, but it is very worth it both for your body and for your pocketbook.

    Offline Fanny

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  • We are not eating dung in properly managed food. Aged manure put in gardens has nothing to do with eating dung. The vegetables get the nutrients from the aged manure. We are not eating the manure.
    Do you eat out or buy ready to eat food?  Do you know how often people preparing your food don't wash their hands after going to the bathroom?
    .
    Etc
    .
    What I am hearing from you is that you eat ONLY food GROWN in the earth, never go out to eat, and never eat pre-made food?
    Anything else, and you are eating dung of one form or another.

    Offline Fanny

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  • I am not sure what I can do about this at the level of society, but it indicates what sort of skills I need to convey to my daughters.
    Show by example.
    You will teach your son's, daughters, other family, congregation, and neighbors.
    It is amazing how far reaching our examples are.