Author Topic: Exemption Retribution (Read 1758 times)

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #15 on:** September 18, 2021, 06:44:04 PM »

Quote from: Miser Peccator on September 18, 2021, 06:17:16 PM

So are all medicines tested on butchered baby parts? Yikes!

That’s exactly the argument this article (written by a priest) makes:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/

The only question is whether the testing was involved in the manufacturing of the drugs, or by scientists unconnected to the manufacturing process.

If so, things get even more complicated:

1) If you can’t ever use the death jab because of its connection to abortion, then you can’t use any of those other medicines, for the same reason;

2) Even if, for the sake of argument, you could use the death jab when necessity and proportionality are present (and if, for the sake of argument, such necessity and proportionality could somehow exist), when would such proportionality and necessity ever exist to take Pepto Bismal for nausea, or Tylenol for a headache?

Paradoxically, the same theology which would allow the vax would disallow all those other medicines.

Miser Peccator · « **Reply #16 on:** September 18, 2021, 06:56:47 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 18, 2021, 06:44:04 PM

That’s exactly the argument this article (written by a priest) makes:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/

The only question is whether the testing was involved in the manufacturing of the drugs, or by scientists unconnected to the manufacturing process.

If so, things get even more complicated:

1) If you can’t ever use the death jab because of its connection to abortion, then you can’t use any of those other medicines, for the same reason;

2) Even if, for the sake of argument, you could use the death jab when necessity and proportionality are present (and if, for the sake of argument, such necessity and proportionality could somehow exist), when would such proportionality and necessity ever exist to take Pepto Bismal for nausea, or Tylenol for a headache?

Paradoxically, the same theology which would allow the vax would disallow all those other medicines.

Ugh...this is making me dizzy. :P

I'm not a moral theologian, but then again I don't always trust those who say they are.

If all of the manufacturers of these products continue to use dead baby parts as part of their "production process" by means of testing their products for continued "quality control" and it's believed they will continue to do so in the future, then I say...

time to go au naturel.

And save souls with our suffering.

Either that or find a compounding pharmacist who can make them for you. (Funny...they are drumming them out. :/ )

Or we can get those graphene biosensors in us and let them make our bodies into drug factories which our AI doctor and phone prescribe for us.

In any case,

We are not guilty of that we weren't aware of.

But once you know you are culpable.

And now we know.

Time to embrace our cross!

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2021, 07:04:14 PM »

Quote from: Miser Peccator on September 18, 2021, 06:56:47 PM

Ugh...this is making me dizzy. :P

I'm not a moral theologian, but then again I don't always trust those who say they are.

If all of the manufacturers of these products continue to use dead baby parts as part of their "production process" by means of testing their products for continued "quality control" and it's believed they will continue to do so in the future, then I say...

time to go au naturel.

And save souls with our suffering.

Either that or find a compounding pharmacist who can make them for you. (Funny...they are drumming them out. :/ )

Or we can get those graphene biosensors in us and let them make our bodies into drug factories.

In any case,

We are not guilty of that we weren't aware of.

But once you know you are culpable.

And now we know.

Time to embrace our cross!

Well, we DON’T yet know whether the testing of these medicines on HEK-293 was causally related to their manufacturing process.

The author of the article I provided presumes they were, but so far as I can tell, he has not demonstrated the studies he cites were commissioned or performed by the Pharma companies.

So the jury is still out on that one.

But I do like your preference to go back to natural medications, and a willingness to suffer. That would be a heroic stance to take, and make saints for sure.

Cera · « **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2021, 07:13:48 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 18, 2021, 05:35:11 PM

There's also an interesting flip-side to this issue:

Suppose, for the sake of argument, we were to conclude, on the basis of this article demonstrating the ubiquity of HEK-293 testing on OTC and prescription medicines (IF in fact these tests were performed by interested and relevant pharma/manufacturing companies/scientists), that it must be permissible to take the death jab in certain circuмstances (necessity and proportionate good).

Would it not become immoral/sinful to take ibuprofen or tylenol for a headache or toothache, since there is no necessity or proportionality?

It seems like a no-win situation:

If you want to be exempt from the COVID gene serum on the basis of HEK-293 testing, you should also shun all the other medications listed in the article above (presuming those tests were performed by pharma/mfg companies to market the drugs, which is yet to be determined).

On the other hand, if you allow the covid gene serum (and all the other medications listed), but can only take them in necessity and proportionality, they would seem to be off limits for most of the reasons people use them (e.g., pain control is not necessity; there is no proportionality; etc.).

An exceedingly difficult and complex issue, this vaccine business!

For this reason, I continue to suspend my final judgment on the issue.

I agree. It's also possible that said meds were are not morally tainted but will be said to be so in an effort to back Catholics/ Christians/ pro-lifers into a corner and/or kill us.

Angelus · « **Reply #19 on:** September 18, 2021, 07:20:47 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 18, 2021, 05:14:43 PM

It doesn't amount to a hill of beans if aspirin was invented 3,000 BC, IF TODAY ALL THE ASPIRIN ON THE MARKET IS MANUFACTURED BY TESTING IT ON HEK-293.

The date any particular medicine was invented is irrelevant.

The only relevant issue is whether TODAY it is being manufactured with the aid of HEK-293.

The only "wiggle room" would be whether any HEK-293 testing was independent of the manufacturing process (i.e., done by scientists having no connectoin to the development/manufacturing process).

This is what needs to be clarified in the link I provided above (reposted below):

(https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/

As Matthew explained in an earlier thread, if some mad scientist performs an experiment or test of ibuprofen on HEK-293 cells, but that scientist has no connection or relevance to the production/manufacture of ibuprofen, then his independent study does not taint the worldwide supply of ibuprofen.

However, if the studies in that article were performed by ibuprofen manufacturers, then it WOULD taint the worldwide supply of ibuprofen (at least, the supply coming from those manufacturers).

Unfortunately, I'm not sure which is the case, and haven't had time to thoroughly scour the article I linked to.

The Children of God for Life people have already addressed this strawman argument of Fr. Matthew Schneider (COG article). Here is the meat from that rebuttal (my emphasis added):

Quote

Fr. Schneider’s article equates the use of aborted fetal cell lines in vaccine development to the ‘testing’ applied to his list of often-prescribed and common OTC medications. They are not – I repeat – they are not the same thing. Fr. Schneider’s reference to aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) as one of the OTC drugs ‘tested’ in aborted fetal cell lines is the best example to demonstrate the problem with his argument. Acetylsalicylic acid was first produced by French chemist Charles Frédéric Gerhardt in 1853 and the U.S. patent for aspirin was awarded to Bayer in the year 1900. Of course, aborted fetal cell lines were in the distant future, rendering their use in the development of aspirin an impossibility.

Fr. Schneider is referring to the subsequent use of aspirin (already developed, free of any association with abortion) and aborted fetal cell lines in some other experimental application, docuмented and published many years after aspirin hit the shelves. That does not retrospectively taint the development of aspirin as immoral. Is Henry Ford responsible for drunken driving or John Moses Browning responsible for armed robberies? Of course not. An immoral or irresponsible act subsequent to, and completely unrelated to, the creation of an object used in the commission of the act does not make the creator of that object an accessory or complicit in any way. I researched fourteen of the drugs on his list and found that thirteen of them fall into the same category as aspirin.

Please don't allow Satan to confuse you on this. If the common OTC product has been developed/tested/produced using aborted fetal cells, the COG for Life people will tell us. They have done the research. No need to re-invent that wheel.

Cera · « **Reply #20 on:** September 18, 2021, 07:26:35 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 18, 2021, 06:44:04 PM

That’s exactly the argument this article (written by a priest) makes:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/

The only question is whether the testing was involved in the manufacturing of the drugs, or by scientists unconnected to the manufacturing process.

If so, things get even more complicated:

1) If you can’t ever use the death jab because of its connection to abortion, then you can’t use any of those other medicines, for the same reason;

2) Even if, for the sake of argument, you could use the death jab when necessity and proportionality are present (and if, for the sake of argument, such necessity and proportionality could somehow exist), when would such proportionality and necessity ever exist to take Pepto Bismal for nausea, or Tylenol for a headache?

Paradoxically, the same theology which would allow the vax would disallow all those other medicines.

Look into this priest; he is pro-vax.
Look into Patheos; it is pro-Bergolio.

And what a coincidence, the priest's name is Schneider. I know one person who read an article based on this article who thought this was the Bishop.

josefamenendez · « **Reply #21 on:** September 18, 2021, 07:40:41 PM »

Pharmakeia means sorcery in Greek. Is there any good in these pharmaceuticals at all?
I often think that the only thing pharmaceuticals help are the illnesses the JWO creates for their use, and then we are killed with the side effects.
I am older and take metoprolol for HTN , but I will certainly wean off of it if it's true.
Eye opener for sure.

Cera · « **Reply #22 on:** September 18, 2021, 07:43:41 PM »

White willow bark is called "nature's aspirin." Pharma copied God.

https://naturalon.com/10-white-willow-bark-remedies-that-work-better-than-aspirin/view-all/

Miser Peccator · « **Reply #23 on:** September 18, 2021, 08:21:51 PM »

Wild lettuce:

Wild lettuce is more than just lettuce grown in the wild; it a specific species of plant used frequently in herbal medicine. Wild lettuce (Lactuca virosa) is closely related to dandelion and is believed to have sedative and analgesic (pain-relieving) effects. It is often used as a natural remedy for stress and chronic pain.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-benefits-of-wild-lettuce-88661

josefamenendez · « **Reply #24 on:** September 18, 2021, 08:24:24 PM »

I have some wild lettuce in a tincture although I've never used it. I think I tried it a while back. I'll give it a go again

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #25 on:** September 18, 2021, 09:51:02 PM »

Quote from: Angelus on September 18, 2021, 07:20:47 PM

The Children of God for Life people have already addressed this strawman argument of Fr. Matthew Schneider (COG article). Here is the meat from that rebuttal (my emphasis added):

Please don't allow Satan to confuse you on this. If the common OTC product has been developed/tested/produced using aborted fetal cells, the COG for Life people will tell us. They have done the research. No need to re-invent that wheel.

COG (and you) seem to miss the point:

Invention date is irrelevant.

What is relevant, is:

Is the asirin (or other drug) manufactured TODAY with a connection to HEK-293 (or other abortive cell ine)?

Aspirin might have been OK to take in 1863, since there was no connection to abortion.

But if it is TODAY manufactured with the aid of testing on HEK-293 cells, obviously, it would not be licit to take it (unless it is also licit to take the death jab).

SperaInDeo · « **Reply #26 on:** September 18, 2021, 10:21:30 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 18, 2021, 09:51:02 PM

COG (and you) seem to miss the point:

Invention date is irrelevant.

What is relevant, is:

Is the asirin (or other drug) manufactured TODAY with a connection to HEK-293 (or other abortive cell ine)?

Aspirin might have been OK to take in 1863, since there was no connection to abortion.

But if it is TODAY manufactured with the aid of testing on HEK-293 cells, obviously, it would not be licit to take it (unless it is also licit to take the death jab).

I agree with you.

We avoid Pepsi, Coke, Nestle, Oscar Mayer, etc because of this. Do your own research...the list is long.

Sounds like we need to throw away the Tums and buy off brand. Despite what many think it is not manufactured the same. By avoiding Name Brands you can buy the same things and it is cheaper and sometimes better.

I haven’t heard about ibuprofen. If anybody can turn up anything on that please let us all know.

SperaInDeo · « **Reply #27 on:** September 18, 2021, 10:37:17 PM »

I found these links from the below patheos article. Sounds like a mad scientist testing and not the manufacturer of ALL ibuprofen. Just because SOMEBODY tested ibuprofen on fetal cell lines doesn’t make you cooperating with the act by buying some ibuprofen. If the brand you are buying THEMSELVES tested it then I think you would be.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18161576/

https://www.nature.com/articles/bjc2012173

The patheos article just wants to attack us, big surprise:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/

But thanks for making my list bigger!

Seraphina · « **Reply #28 on:** September 18, 2021, 10:45:42 PM »

Quote from: SperaInDeo on September 18, 2021, 10:21:30 PM

I agree with you.

We avoid Pepsi, Coke, Nestle, Oscar Mayer, etc because of this. Do your own research...the list is long.

Sounds like we need to throw away the Tums and buy off brand. Despite what many think it is not manufactured the same. By avoiding Name Brands you can buy the same things and it is cheaper and sometimes better.

I haven’t heard about ibuprofen. If anybody can turn up anything on that please let us all know.

If one investigates everyone and everything he buys, uses, comes into contact with, there is almost definitely some evil association, no matter how remote. I tend not to purchase brand name products, and keep away from processed and junk foods in general. It would seem to me to be a better use of ones time and resources to engage in prayer, work, or even wholesome recreation than chasing down every last demon roaming the earth.
I’m not advocating ignorance, simply to have a balanced approach to life. Unless chasing demons is your vocation, “Let sleeping dogs lie.”
P.S. In uni, “wild lettuce” was a euphemism for cannabis! Maybe that’s why it makes people feel better? My grandmother, RIP, used to speak of a remedy her mother used to give for the flu or feeling “under the weather.” She called it “Dr. Zale’s Elixir, or just “Dr. Zales.” I did a little research back in the 1980s and discovered the active ingredient was opium, perfectly legal at the time!”

SperaInDeo · « **Reply #29 on:** September 18, 2021, 11:08:16 PM »

Quote from: Seraphina on September 18, 2021, 10:45:42 PM

If one investigates everyone and everything he buys, uses, comes into contact with, there is almost definitely some evil association, no matter how remote.

uh... we are talking about a specific evil act, not all evil acts, so.....duh?

Quote

Unless chasing demons is your vocation, “Let sleeping dogs lie”

My wife and I probably have less than 3 hours researching this. The tougher part of the endeavor was retraining ourselves during the grocery store run.

Author Topic: Exemption Retribution (Read 1758 times)

SeanJohnson

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Miser Peccator

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SeanJohnson

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Cera

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Angelus

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Cera

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josefamenendez

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Cera

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Miser Peccator

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josefamenendez

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SeanJohnson

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SperaInDeo

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SperaInDeo

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Seraphina

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SperaInDeo

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