Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall  (Read 6616 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PG

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1734
  • Reputation: +457/-476
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2018, 04:04:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • materdominici - here is a link to dr. mcdougalls website.  I have linked the section "foods not to eat" when on the mcdougall diet.  And, refined white rice and refined white flour is on his do not eat list, and they always have been.  He is not in this video recommending we eat refined starches.  He is just citing very old studies on the subject to point out the ignorance and neglect on the part of the medical/diet field.

    https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/free-mcdougall-program/steps-to-recovery/foods-not-allowed/
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #16 on: January 23, 2018, 04:15:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I stopped at the 4:00 mark because he doesn't specify his entire diet. He only said he ate an unlimited amount of calories from fruits. He doesn't state if fruits and a raw diet was his only diet. $100 says he's also eating meats, fats and oils along with his surge in fruits. There is a synergistic effect of weigh gain from a high carb & fat diet, even more than a high fat diet alone. I'm not wasting another 8 minutes of my life on his video.
    croix de fer - you owe me $100.  Andrew Perlot is probably the best raw food blogger on the internet.  He has been eating a raw fruit and vegetable only(zero cooked food) diet for about 10 years now.  He doesn't eat meat, fat, or oil.  He criticizes it in nearly all his videos pertaining to it.  That is why his information and experiment is so useful.  He experiments on himself in very scientific ways with diet combined with medical study information, and it is really useful.  He has had quite a bit of success with a book that has been out for many years now as well.  He is highly recommended.  He is also very athletic, and very intellectual.  You will find him discussing and explaining health subjects that nobody else in the diet industry will touch or mention, and he is successful at it.  He is a pioneer in diet studies.  I don't agree with his zero cooked mainly fruit diet, because it is not seasonal/traditional.  But, that is besides the current point.
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline MaterDominici

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 5438
    • Reputation: +4152/-96
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #17 on: January 23, 2018, 04:28:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • materdominici - here is a link to dr. mcdougalls website.  I have linked the section "foods not to eat" when on the mcdougall diet.  And, refined white rice and refined white flour is on his do not eat list, and they always have been.  He is not in this video recommending we eat refined starches.  He is just citing very old studies on the subject to point out the ignorance and neglect on the part of the medical/diet field.

    https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/free-mcdougall-program/steps-to-recovery/foods-not-allowed/
    Do you follow this diet?
    .
    What are typical breakfasts / lunches / dinners / snacks for you?
    .
    The Atkins diet has appealed to me for a long time because when I read a list of typical meals, I think "I can do that". I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything unless you set that something right in front of my face and tell me not to eat it. ; )
    .
    On the other hand, I know other people who are overweight and/or diabetic, but when told they might see improvement on a "no bread, no pasta" sort of diet they say "no way!"
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Croix de Fer

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3219
    • Reputation: +2525/-2210
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #18 on: January 23, 2018, 04:43:43 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  And, refined white rice and refined white flour is on his do not eat list, and they always have been.  He is not in this video recommending we eat refined starches.  He is just citing very old studies on the subject to point out the ignorance and neglect on the part of the medical/diet field.

    https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/free-mcdougall-program/steps-to-recovery/foods-not-allowed/

    Not so fast, Charlie.

    Dr. McDougall says in the following video on his own website that eating white (refined ) rice is fine for health & weight loss, but brown rice is better. The only reason he listed white rice/flour in the "don't eat list" is because he recommends brown rice as the better alternative.

    https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/videos/mcdougalls-moments/white-rice/




    Quote
    PG quote:
    croix de fer - you owe me $100.  Andrew Perlot is probably the best raw food blogger on the internet.  He has been eating a raw fruit and vegetable only(zero cooked food) diet for about 10 years now.  He doesn't eat meat, fat, or oil.  He criticizes it in nearly all his videos pertaining to it.


    Then he's sitting on his arse all day and not getting any calorie expenditures through physical movement. Or he's not telling the truth.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #19 on: January 23, 2018, 06:22:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Not so fast, Charlie.

    Dr. McDougall says in the following video on his own website that eating white (refined ) rice is fine for health & weight loss, but brown rice is better. The only reason he listed white rice/flour in the "don't eat list" is because he recommends brown rice as the better alternative.

    https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/videos/mcdougalls-moments/white-rice/





    Then he's sitting on his arse all day and not getting any calorie expenditures through physical movement. Or he's not telling the truth.
    You only watched 4 minutes of the video.  But, that is also why fruit is not the greatest food for weight loss.  It is one an apertif, and two a sugar that as you can see from the video, easily converts into fat.  On the flip side, you cannot gain weight replacing that fruit with non starchy vegetables.  And, you can sit on your arse all day.  I am just saying that your 4 point fruit, sugar, and refined carb diet is not a weight loss diet.  It is an athletic diet, and maybe a poor one at that.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #20 on: January 23, 2018, 06:59:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Do you follow this diet?
    .
    What are typical breakfasts / lunches / dinners / snacks for you?
    .
    The Atkins diet has appealed to me for a long time because when I read a list of typical meals, I think "I can do that". I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything unless you set that something right in front of my face and tell me not to eat it. ; )
    .
    On the other hand, I know other people who are overweight and/or diabetic, but when told they might see improvement on a "no bread, no pasta" sort of diet they say "no way!"
    This is my go to diet.  I have done it completely for many years, and I have also broken it for days/months.  Like with dairy.   I like diary.  But, if I need to(like do penance or if I am sick or depressed) I know what to cut out, and the dairy goes.  Depending on your situation or lifestyle, you can break it and add some of the do not foods.  But, if you are in need, I think this is the diet.  If I had a farm or land, I would have dairy animals and egg laying birds.  And, I would consume the milk and eggs.  I would do what joel salatin does.
    I have a gluten sensibility, and I will even concur that life without bread is not worth living.  That "no bread no pasta" rule is bad if it means not eating whole wheat bread or whole wheat pasta.  Those are good and on mcdougals eat list.  It is the white bread and white pasta that is on mcdougalls do not eat list.  You can find whole wheat spaghetti,linguini,fettuchini noodles and they are usually the same as low price pasta.  Just find the store that sells them.
    The best thing I can recommend is to avoid thoroughly refined starches, meat, and all artificial ingredients.  And, that includes all those sweets and deserts that have refined starches.  Make desert home made from good ingredients and keep them simple(I have some good simple deserts).  Learn to find excitement out of starchy and non starchy vegetable variety.  There are so many, they are not near as seasonable as fruit.  They are high in all of the vitamins and minerals we need, much more so than fruit.  
    Atkins diet is a money operation.  
    As far as the typical goes or can go.  Mcdougall recommends an 80% starch base simple or extravagant(taken from vegetable, grain, or legume family) with 20-30% from the other plant based categories(ideally and realistically non starchy vegetables).  If you have a health issue of some sort, you increase the % in favor of non starchy vegetables compared to starch.  And, these numbers are based on have 3 meals a day.  If you have higher percentage of vegetables, you may need to eat more often.  But, if health needs demand it, do more vegetables.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Croix de Fer

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3219
    • Reputation: +2525/-2210
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #21 on: January 23, 2018, 07:15:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • sugar that as you can see from the video, easily converts into fat.  

    Sugar doesn't easily convert to fat. That's a false narrative pushed by medical establishment, the FDA and the shill in your video.




    Quote
    On the flip side, you cannot gain weight replacing that fruit with non starchy vegetables.  And, you can sit on your arse all day.

    And have soft, flabby body parts with little strength and no endurance because you have no energy to engage in exercise due to no energy which comes from glycogen (converted from sugar).  Sugar, which converts to glycogen, is needed for exercise or any prolonged physical movement.




    Quote
    I am just saying that your 4 point fruit, sugar, and refined carb diet is not a weight loss diet.  

    No, it's a weight loss diet as long as a person avoids fats, oils & excess animal protein, and they engage in at least minimal exercise. The more exercise, the more weight is lost.




    Quote
    It (fruit, sugar, refined carbs) is an athletic diet, and maybe a poor one at that.

    Sugar is the primary fuel for muscles. Every athlete who ever won a top level sport performance competition did so with their muscles loaded with glycogen, which can only happen by eating fruits, sugars, and simple & complex carbohydrates.

    All things equal in sport, including the doping, athlete A, who eats a sugar diet, will destroy athlete B who avoids sugar.

    In fact, a non-doping athlete full of glycogen (converted from sugar) will usually defeat a doped athlete with no glycogen stores in his muscles due to eating little sugar, all other variables being equal.

    No athlete has ever won a semi-serious sport performance competition while in ketosis.

    Sugar is the best diet for performance athletes.



    Quote
     Those (whole wheat bread/pasta) are good and on mcdougals eat list.  It is the white bread and white pasta that is on mcdougalls do not eat list.


    What part of this did you not understand:

    Dr. McDougall says in the following video on his own website that eating white (refined ) rice is fine for health & weight loss, but brown rice is better. The only reason he listed white rice/flour in the "don't eat list" is because he recommends brown rice as the better alternative.

    https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/videos/mcdougalls-moments/white-rice/
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #22 on: January 23, 2018, 09:11:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • croix de fer - first, I like to recall what +Sanborn once said about athletics and sport.  And, that is that "sports are generally for children".  So, dont base an ideal diet around athletics.  It is not what we are called to in life.  

    Second, you must not know dr. mcdougall very well.  Because, he has a saying he uses often to make a point about diet.  And, that is his saying about "barley men".  The gladiators of roman times were called barley men because they ate a diet based upon barley(not refined) which was probably just the cheap yet whole grain that all the poor ate in roman times.  They were not eating fruit or sugar.  White bread and white pasta has been compared to cocaine by many health experts due to its effect on the body/brain.  And, cocaine is an upper.  White bread/pasta is an upper. Sugar is an upper.  Fruit is an upper.  And, things that go up must come down.   

    Lastly, type 2 diabete people are in no condition to exercise.  These upper foods like refined starch, sugar, and fruit will not help them exercise.  Because, exercise for them will not be fun at all.  It will be a miserable experience not associated with being "up".  So, instead, these uppers are going to inspire them to do the things that they like.   And, the things they associate with "like" is not exercise.  And, by the time the up has passed, they are going to be down and not want to exercise either.  Refined starch sugar and fruit is a poor solution to type 2 diabetes, which was your original proposal.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline Motorede

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 333
    • Reputation: +192/-41
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #23 on: January 24, 2018, 08:58:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You think you're in great health, but try running, or doing anything physical involving endurance, without stopping, and we'll see how far you get on a high fat diet alone. You will bonk very early.
    You are mistaken.  The induction period of two weeks in order to get into ketosis is the only time when a lot of fat is consumed. Once one is in ketosis the amount of fat is decreased and healthy carbs can be consumed. Plus I tend to be more of a vegetarian anyway but still maintain ketosis. Just read.

    Offline Croix de Fer

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3219
    • Reputation: +2525/-2210
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #24 on: January 24, 2018, 09:41:18 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You are mistaken.  The induction period of two weeks in order to get into ketosis is the only time when a lot of fat is consumed. Once one is in ketosis the amount of fat is decreased and healthy carbs can be consumed. Plus I tend to be more of a vegetarian anyway but still maintain ketosis. Just read.

    Wrong analysis. The person in ketosis simply doesn't have enough glycogen ("healthy carbs") stores in his muscles because he avoids sugar, while eating fats or, in your case, veggies (which, btw, is good, too). Therefore, even when your body turns to burning glycogen for energy, you will "hit a wall" very early in any semi-prolonged physical endeavor, much more when actually doing some type of endurance event. Just read exercise physiology & nutrition.



    Quote
    PG says:
    croix de fer - first, I like to recall what +Sanborn once said about athletics and sport.  And, that is that "sports are generally for children".  So, dont base an ideal diet around athletics.  It is not what we are called to in life.  

    Who cares what Bishop Sanborn says about athletics & sport. He's wrong. Athletics/sport help build strong men, character & strategic thinking. Too many people, nowadays, sit indoors, remain sedentary and rot away. That is not what we're called to in life.  Moreover, St. Paul speaks of running races as a metaphor for getting to Heaven. He obviously knew the importance of sport. Sugar is the fuel for physical performance. The Holy Ghost is the Fuel for getting to Heaven.


    Quote
    PG says:
    Lastly, type 2 diabete people are in no condition to exercise.

    That's because they never exercise. They sit on their fat asses all day and let their bodies become mush. Again, it's all about small steps - gradual conditioning. Even minimal, introductory exercise will improve a diabetic's physical & mental energy and insulin sensitivity within a week. If the diabetic wants to cure his diabetes, then he must take up exercise. What fuels exercise? Sugar.


    Quote
    PG says:
    Refined starch sugar and fruit is a poor solution to type 2 diabetes, which was your original proposal.

    Wrong, again. Refined sugar and fruits cure diabetes because it increases insulin sensitivity. Would you like me to post, again, Dr. McDougall referencing the medical journals asserting this fact in the aforementioned video?
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #25 on: January 24, 2018, 11:51:24 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • crox - you should change your name to "sucker".  It is not difficult to figure out where the term came from.  And, it is considered derogatory.

    And, st paul uses athletic references because he was a roman citizen living in the roman empire as the apostle of the gentiles, which glorified sport.  You have to use examples your subject can relate to.  St augustine wrote extensively about roman paganism, and the church has even harnassed paganism do a degree out of every culture.  But, that does not mean the church is promoting paganism.  

    You speak of gradualism, but yet you promote foods characteristic highs and lows.  No gradualism will occur there.  That is a contradiction.  

    I have listened to countless hours of dr. mcdougall.  I have read all of the information on his website.  I have watched the majority of his videos.  And, I can tell you.  He does not promote consuming refined starch or a diet emphasizing fruit.  



    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #26 on: January 24, 2018, 11:55:45 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here is dr. mcdgouall on a fruit emphasized diet.  

    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Croix de Fer

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3219
    • Reputation: +2525/-2210
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #27 on: January 24, 2018, 03:13:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • crox - you should change your name to "sucker".  It is not difficult to figure out where the term came from.  And, it is considered derogatory.
    Brah, you seem to equate your posted video of some guy's testimony about eating unlimited carbs and its  consquential weight gain as an empirical study. He was not under any observation. It's simply what he purports. What heuristic are you using to determine what he claims is true? Who is the real sucker?

    Conversely, the real science (not the cover-up that's currently the status quo) has spoken that refined sugar and white rice cures diabetes as long as the person cuts out fats & oils in his diet. The medical journals are referenced in the OP.


    Quote
    PG says:

    And, st paul uses athletic references because he was a roman citizen living in the roman empire as the apostle of the gentiles, which glorified sport.  You have to use examples your subject can relate to.  St augustine wrote extensively about roman paganism, and the church has even harnassed paganism do a degree out of every culture.  But, that does not mean the church is promoting paganism.
    St. Paul is not going to use an activity that's inherently bad or "childish" (as +Sanborn calls it) as an analogy for the faithful endeavoring to get to Heaven. Your analysis is wrong, and your argument is illogical.



    Quote
    PG says:

    You speak of gradualism, but yet you promote foods characteristic highs and lows.  No gradualism will occur there.  That is a contradiction.
    The gradualism shouldn't only be exercise but, also, intake of refined sugar and other carbs. Your strawman is that I advocate huge consumption of sugar for the novice. Wrong.

    Also, you fail to realize that the source of the diabetic's problem isn't sugar/carbs, rather it's his unwillingness to engage in exercise for reasons of "discomfort" (laziness) or other rationalizations. Exercise cures diabetes. Sugar is the primary fuel source for exercise, and it increases sensitivity to insulin. It's a matter of choice. Remain embedded in lethargy and the status quo health field that wants to keep you sick and selling you their diabetes medicine, or cure it by getting off your ass and exercising, and eating carbs while cutting out fat, oils & excess animal protein.

    You simply can't see the forest for the trees; and even the details you use are based off a wrong premise.



    Quote
    PG says:

    And, I can tell you.  He (Dr. McDougall) does not promote consuming refined starch or a diet emphasizing fruit.  .... Here is dr. mcdgouall on a fruit emphasized diet.
    Another strawman argument. I never said Dr. McDougall advocates a sole fruitarian diet. He advocates a CARBOHYDRATE diet, and that includes not only fruits but, also, non-fruits with sugars, while cutting out fats, oils and animal protein.

    And he does, indeed, promote consuming refined sugars & white rice (along with other carbs). He speaks it himself in the video in the McDougall link that I posted twice on this thread. However, he simply promotes brown rice more than white rice.

    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41870
    • Reputation: +23922/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #28 on: January 24, 2018, 03:45:00 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Atkins diet has appealed to me for a long time because when I read a list of typical meals, I think "I can do that". I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything unless you set that something right in front of my face and tell me not to eat it. ; )

    I recommend intermittent fasting.  It's fantastic.  I've done Atkins a few times over the years, but it's expensive to eat that way, and you always feel deprived and have carb cravings.  With intermittent fasting you can eat anything.  It's as simple as not eating for a 16-hour window.  I usually finish eating by 8PM, and then don't eat again until noon the following day.  I've shed 12 pounds in 3 weeks without trying, without feeling deprived, without feeling hungry ... except for that last 2-3 hours before noon.  And I know it's not muscle weight or water weight.  During that 8 hour eating window, I just eat whatever I feel like I want (trying to keep it somewhat healthy though).

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting-guide

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall
    « Reply #29 on: January 24, 2018, 10:06:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • If you watch this video by dr mcdougall you will learn that he uses the world "sugar" to refer to foods like potatoes, corn, grains and anything else that is known as a "starch" or "carbohydrate".  He uses the word sugar because these foods are a sugar.  They are a "long chain sugars".  So, everytime he advertises humans needing sugar, he is talking about long chain sugars.  

    And, there are also short chain sugars.  Short chain sugars are foods like fruit, honey, and sucrose(table sugar).  He talks about those too, including that they rot your teeth among other negatives.  So, croix, don't think you have dr mcdougall on your side because he uses the word sugar and that we are "sugar seekers".  He is not talking about table sugar, fruit, or any other refined sugars.  

    You can start listening at 930 if you want to get up to the sugar topic.

    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15