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Offline Neil Obstat

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Chili Burger - Chili Cheese Fries thread
« on: December 09, 2013, 08:34:12 PM »
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    In Los Angeles, the King of fast food chili restaurants is Tommy's Original.

    The Original Tommy’s (from the company About page)

    On May 15, 1946, a young Tommy Koulax introduced Los Angeles to a hamburger with gusto. Years later, L.A.’s love affair with his chili-topped creation is still going strong. Beginning with a ramshackle little stand on the corner of Beverly and Rampart Boulevards in Los Angeles, Tommy has fed an estimated fifty million Southern Californians. [some of them hundreds of times! -- speaking from personal experience]

    The original stand today serves as the company logo and for good reason. Although there are now many Tommy’s locations throughout Los Angeles, Orange, San Bernardino, Riverside, San Diego and Ventura counties in California and Clark County in Nevada, none compare with the huge popularity of the original Beverly location. Alone, it serves thousands of customers each week. It’s why we say, “If you don’t see the shack - take it back!”

    (They're being 'modest' -- it should say thousands a day.)





    They even have a mobile version, available at several of their 32 locations in greater Los Angeles (Southern California), emblazoned with the registered slogan, "If you don't see the shack, take it back."



    "Today, there are many Tommy’s Original locations throughout Los Angeles, Orange, Ventura, San Bernardino, San Diego, Riverside and Nevada’s Clark County." (from the company website)

    Note, this list of 7 counties covers an area larger than any other 14 contiguous counties in the contiguous 48 United States.  The sentence does not literally say "counties," but that is what it is referring to, because all of the cities listed are the same as their respective county names.

    From the mid-1950's into the 1970's the popularity and expansion of Tommy's restaurants grew in great strides, however, the immense appeal of the original "Shack" location on Beverly and Rampart is untouchable.  There were days when literally thousands of people stood in a line of hundreds of feet waiting to place an order at the Shack.  I was there to see it happen. There wasn't room for everyone to eat.  When Koulax acquired the adjacent buildings, he put a 2 x 12" Honduran mahogany plank along the outside stucco wall at 50" height where customers could stand and eat their burger.  I have seen that whole area filled with people eating at practically all hours of the day and night.   The shack never closes.  The employees are trained to handle SPEED.  The shack can serve four to five customers a minute on an average, and with the second kitchen, capacity is tripled.  You do the math.  20,000 customers a day has not been too extreme.

    MANY IMITATE, NONE COMPARE (from linked History page of company website)

    One particular problem for Tommy’s over the years has been protecting the name. Many profit-hungry imitators have copied key elements of the operation - such as the sign and menu - in attempts to cash in on the fame of the Original. This has resulted in some customer confusion and has been the subject of many legal battles. Today, customers are instructed to, “Look for the shack,” on the Tommy’s logo.

    --- Actually, they can see the slogan, "If you don't see the shack, take it back," written on all the beverage cups in current use.

    While it is very commonplace in LA to sport signed photos on the wall of famous people who have frequented your store, Tommy's doesn't rely on anyone else's fame, curiously.  Nor does the display of other people's fame assure the longevity of any restaurant!  I have witnessed numerous restaurants and other businesses fail and close down, and one of the saddest scenes is when the worn-out proprietor removes his collection of headshots from the wall.  There are some stores that change hands and leave all the photos in place for the new owners. It can be a kind of asset if the display is attractive and well maintained.

    The Tommmy Koulax formula is more like, "You are an honored guest, and I am pleased to be of service to you, my loyal customer, who has come to share in the common experience of all my customers, which is the personal attention of me, Tommy, a family atmosphere of loyalty and mutual respect, good food, a place to park for free, fast service, and the memory of having been pleased this same way, every time you come to visit."

    All of the 32 California Tommy's locations have only photos of Tommy Koulax and his loyal customers.  But I find it a bit odd that there doesn't seem to be any photos on the Internet of the standing-room-only crowds that I have personally seen there around the Shack on Beverly in Filipinotown.  There have been days when I assure you, over a thousand people are mulling about, waiting in a line that constantly inches forward, carrying their food to a picnic table or else the mahogany plank on the wall where they will stand and eat for about 5 minutes before rushing off again in this hectic and never-waiting world.  

    Nor do they explain in any site I've found that Tommy not only bought up the whole corner lot where the Shack is, but he also bought up the corner lot across the street (across Rampart, to the west, except for the small building on the very corner), and turned it into a split-level parking lot for his customers, where now about 150 cars can park at one time, all for free, and then walk across Rampart at the crosswalk to eat at the Shack.  Very few people don't use the crosswalk, which could be a cause for a J-walking citation, but I have never heard of anyone getting such a ticket, for numerous policemen stop at Tommy's to have a quick meal-on-the-go, and they seem to turn a blind eye to any such lawbreakers, perhaps because they share the loyalty of being one of Tommy's fans.  

    Tommy Koulax is the star of the whole operation. And he has been deceased for over 20 years.



    The following text belongs in the pink bubble to the left of the following image:

    Quote
    The original shack today serves as the company's logo and for good reasons. Although now there are many Original Tommy's locations throughout Southern California, none compares with the huge popularity of the Original Los Angeles location.


    ---Inside the Shack kitchen --- there's room for up to 5 personnel, in very tight quarters.  They each know their job and stick to it, like soldiers in a submarine at war.  If you ever want the experience of having your order filled in 30 seconds, while three more people behind you are placing theirs, this is the place to go.





    Their specialty is the Tommy's Chili Burger, which traditionally has been what you get when you go there and order "A Burger."  




    However, thanks to what must have been lawyers and/or marketing 'experts', the cashier now asks you if you want chili, tomato, pickles, onion, mustard and Ketchup on it.  Whoever came up with that idea is all about discarding the tradition that the Founder handed down to them (sound familiar?) because at Beverly and Rampart in "Historic Filipinotown" (look up 2575 W. Beverly Blvd., Los Angeles, and see what the neighborhood title is on the map), you never had to say you want chili or any of that other stuff.  That's the way you got it, and if you were somehow surprised, well, you got laughed at by all the other customers "in the know."

    They would make you a replacement burger, if you insisted, but the crowd would make you a laughingstock.  

    The success of Tommy's was squarely founded on a cultural phenomenon of being part of a madding crowd of people who all want the same experience.  And when you don't 'fit in' to the crowd, you are an outcast, and nobody wants to be an outcast!!

    I haven't been back to the 'original shack' for some years, but things have changed at "Tommy's Number 2" and other locations.  (Trivia question:  Which of the presently 35 locations is and always has been "Number Two?"  -- hint:  they're open 24/7/385, just like The Shack is, and has been for the past 50 years.)




    There is a bit of history and lore, however, that goes back further than the start of the "Original Tommy's," which began in 1946, founded by a son of Greek immigrants, named Tommy Koulax.  The historical fact that the following brief mention doesn't mention is, on their best day Ptomaine Tommy never served as many customers as Tommy Koulax did, in the heyday of 1969, even on his WORST day.


    Source: Lincoln Heights and more!



    Ptomaine Tommy's

    Or

    "The Original Ptomaine Tommy"
    HOME OF THE ORIGINAL SIZE

    2420 N. Broadway
    1946 Matchbook cover





            "The Original Ptomaine Tommy" Was a 24-hour L.A. chili parlor with the wonderful in-your-face name Ptomaine Tommy's.
            He invented the chili size, a burger patty smothered in chili (chili burger), in the 1920s.
            His real name was Tommy DeForest, and from 1913 to 1958, he was the major-domo of local burgerdom.
            More than likely, DeForest, who claimed Mae West, Mary Pickford, and Dorothy Lamour as regulars, was the restaurateur who popularized the ladling of a masa-thickened, beanless chili on a burger.



            Ptomaine Tommy, once proprietor of the largest and best known chili parlor in the city. Ptomaine Tommy served straight chili and a Southwestern variation, a hamburger smothered with chili. He had two ladles, a large and a small. When a customer ordered straight chili, he got out the large ladle. When he wanted the other, he usually said “Hamburger size.” So Ptomaine Tommy put up one sign that read HAMBURGER SIZE 15¢, and another that read CHILI SIZE 20¢. Other chili joints followed suit and before long chili was known throughout Los Angeles as “size”. They'd say, “Just gimme a bowl of size.”



            Tommy's closed because of financial troubles, and Tommy died a week later.

            To this day Los Angeles is rife with burger joints named Tom’s, Tommy's, Tummy's, Tammies, or Big Tommy's. Some may descend from Ptomaine Tommy's, while others claim a lineage that dates to a Greek immigrant named Tommy Koulax who, in a 1946 bid for differentiation, opened a burger stand that he dubbed Tommy's Original.


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    Offline s2srea

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    Chili Burger - Chili Cheese Fries thread
    « Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 08:51:05 PM »
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  • Tommy's is good, but just way to dang greasy. I'll stick with the best around:



    But a close second:


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Chili Burger - Chili Cheese Fries thread
    « Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 08:58:59 PM »
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    As a lifelong Angeleno, I have heard many people claim that someone they know has "the best chili."  

    In Malibu, for example, they have an annual "Chili Cook-off" where residents compete with various recipes, and the winners are always most delicious.  

    But IMHO, their chili is not comparable to Tommy's, as I said, IMHO.  

    I guess you'd be right saying I'm prejudiced.  

    Every time I hear someone swoon about a particular place to go for chili, or chili cheese fries especially, and I have gone, I have been UNIMPRESSED.  

    If anyone has a suggestion, please post it here.  

    I promise I will be FAIR AND HONEST.  

    But right now, I have to go, because I have an appointment with a friend, who, BTW, recommended Daglas chili cheese fries to me.  Daglas is on Vanowen near Tampa. in the San Fernando Valley.   I tried their fries.  About 2 on a scale of 10.  IOW: fuggedaboudit.  

    C-U-later.



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    Offline roscoe

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    Chili Burger - Chili Cheese Fries thread
    « Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 09:04:34 PM »
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  • I used to go to Tommys & Pinks until i learned about Church prohibition of kosher meat.  :idea:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    Chili Burger - Chili Cheese Fries thread
    « Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 09:42:05 PM »
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  • That is unless I am mistaken & the hamburger meat is not kosher. I usually got the chili-dog.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Chili Burger - Chili Cheese Fries thread
    « Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 01:48:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Tommy's is good, but just way too dang greasy. I'll stick with the best around:



    But a close second:



    It's interesting you would try to compare In-N-Out with Tommy's.  

    While I do agree, the In-N-Out burger can't be beat for flavor, freshness, consistency and quality.  But they do not offer chili.  I was among their first customers at their original location.  Do you know where that is?  Have you ever asked for a burger there "Animal style?"  Do you know what it means?  

    But I'm talking about chili -- burgers, fries and other items, but the chili is the main attraction at Tommy's, not the other items.  If you want an excellent burger without the chili, I'd say you're likely to prefer In-N-Out.  But like I said, this is about chili.  



    As for The Hat, I'm quite familiar with the original location there, too, in Alhambra.  They were successful because they stuck to a popular formula, and then they took that formula to other locations, opening more stores.  

    The Hat does have chili cheese fries.  And it was to compete with Tommy's that they put out an enormous array of it.  When you order French fried potatoes at the Hat you get enough to feed four people -- but only if they eat a lot of fries.  Then try ordering chili cheese fries.  Ditto on the volume.  But you can ask for a sandwich-sized pile of pastrami on top of it all.  Now, it's no longer a serving but a mountain, piled high.  And if one person can eat it all, he's got to have been hungry, and with a hollow leg.  

    It weighs about 1-1/2 pounds and comes with 6 ounces of chili, 6 ounces of cheese and 5 ounces of pastrami.  That leaves 9 ounces for the French fries.  If they tried to pile it any higher it would fall over sideways.  It's served on a press-formed paper plate with two cup holder sections.  I think they use that to make it appear that you're getting more on your plate, even though you are really getting more than you do just about anywhere else in town.  At the Hat, it's never too much.  

    But after all that, what about the chili?  When I get the Hat's chili, before I'm halfway through it, I'm already wishing I had gone to Tommy's.  All on it's own, it does not have the flavor of Tommy's, even though they use the same yellow Cascabella chili peppers--

    -- which, by the way, are the principal source of Tommy's tantalizing spicy flavor.  Be that as it may, the Hat's chili doesn't stand up against Tommy's.  Get a side serving of it, and a side serving of Tommy's chili, and put them side-by-side and compare them.  I've done this.  Tommy's wins.  And yes, it was a "double blind study."

    And if you don't like the "greasiness" you can let it stand for a few minutes and pour the grease off the top.  I don't think that's where the flavor comes from, because it is just as tasty with the grease removed.  You can put it in the refrigerator overnight and in the morning there is a thickened orange-white gel on the top, which you can remove with a spoon, and then heat up the chili.  It still has that great Tommy's flavor, especially if you throw in some chopped cascaba chilis.


    Notice in the blurb above about "Ptomaine Tommy's" that there were two prices for the chili.  It seems that Tommy Koulax overrode that stigma by offering his customers extra chili to their heart's content.  To this day, you can get about a triple serving of chili, enough to fill a small bowl, all on top of your burger, so that it looks like a bowl of chili setting inside the yellow waxed paper wrapper, as if they made a bowl out of the paper.  A few years ago at Tommy's #2 they tried to phase that out, but customers kept asking for it.  Now the only way to get it that way is to say you want the burger "OPEN ON TOP, WITH LOTS AND LOTS OF EXTRA CHILI."  Before the change, all you had to ask for was "lots and lots of extra chili" but that suddenly wasn't enough.  Now you have to say "open on top" in order to get it that way.  It must have been an executive decision.  Again, it's one of those changes that never would have happened under the watch of the founder --- sound familiar???

    Another change is, they offer three sizes of chili-to-go, a 5-ounce, an 8-ounce and a 14-ounce size.   You can also get it by the gallon.  They fill up one of their empty Ketchup gallon jugs with chili.  It has a wide mouth on top with a screw-on lid.  A gallon costs $34.88.  But seeing as how a gallon is 128 ounces, which comes to 9.14 times 14 ounces, that would only be $3.82 for the large chili to go, but that's a 58% discount.  So the gallon size is a great bargain.  

    And if you have a lineup of people who are Tommy's chili fans, you're going to make a lot of people happy for a bargain price.  However, if you have a lineup of naysayers who think it's too greasy or whatever, well, I'd say you have the wrong crowd.

    I took a gallon to a party one time, a bunch of guys with dirt bikes in the desert, and they were pretty impressed.  It goes GREAT with a case of beer, in the boonies.


    .
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    Offline s2srea

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    Chili Burger - Chili Cheese Fries thread
    « Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 12:05:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    It's interesting you would try to compare In-N-Out with Tommy's.  


    Not that interesting. They're both burger joints, but offer different styles of burgers. I think someone can prefer one style to another.

    Quote
    While I do agree, the In-N-Out burger can't be beat for flavor, freshness, consistency and quality.  But they do not offer chili.


    True.

    Quote
    I was among their first customers at their original location.  Do you know where that is?

    Baldwin Park, right? I'm pretty sure that was the first, and if it is (though they rebuild a new one with a 'training center next door) its only 2-3 miles from my in-laws!

    Quote
     Have you ever asked for a burger there "Animal style?"  Do you know what it means?


    Just had a Protein 4x4 burger, animal style. Do you know what 'that' means? :) My cousins had their fries animal style- have you had them that way?

    Quote
    But I'm talking about chili -- burgers, fries and other items, but the chili is the main attraction at Tommy's, not the other items.  If you want an excellent burger without the chili, I'd say you're likely to prefer In-N-Out.  But like I said, this is about chili.  



    Fair enough. Perhaps I was too eager to throw in other So Cal Burger places :)

    Quote
    As for The Hat, I'm quite familiar with the original location there, too, in Alhambra.  They were successful because they stuck to a popular formula, and then they took that formula to other locations, opening more stores.  

    The Hat does have chili cheese fries.  And it was to compete with Tommy's that they put out an enormous array of it.  When you order French fried potatoes at the Hat you get enough to feed four people -- but only if they eat a lot of fries.  Then try ordering chili cheese fries.  Ditto on the volume.  But you can ask for a sandwich-sized pile of pastrami on top of it all.  Now, it's no longer a serving but a mountain, piled high.  And if one person can eat it all, he's got to have been hungry, and with a hollow leg.  


    Have you had them with gravy? Its pretty good, but salty! Alas, I don't eat fries anyone, but I live on my memories!

    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Chili Burger - Chili Cheese Fries thread
    « Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 05:04:25 PM »
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  • Animal style is the best!


    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Chili Burger - Chili Cheese Fries thread
    « Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 07:27:42 PM »
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  • I wish I could eat peppers. :(
    Matthew 5:37

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