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Author Topic: Any vegans here?  (Read 9183 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Any vegans here?
« on: June 25, 2017, 09:13:38 PM »
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    • A Catholic can certainly be a vegan, as long as it is for the correct reasons. The vegan vs. carnivore debate should really be about the health effects of either type of diet, not about their environmental impact (which is harder to accurately assess anyways). Many studies have shown vegans have the lowest incidences of several disease (e.g., diabetes, heart disease, blood cancers, etc.); cf. https://nutritionfacts.org/
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #1 on: June 26, 2017, 06:35:36 AM »
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    • I disagree.  It's like saying a Catholic can be "gαy" as long as he is celibate.

    Announcing that one is "gαy" is a political term and it connotes a political ideal.  "Vegan" is also a political term and it connotes a political idea.  

    A moral Catholic who thinks of himself as sɛҳuąƖly disordered will simply never take a wife or participate in certain practices but he will never announce himself as nor accept the label "gαy".  Likewise, a person may very well choose to abstain from meat and all animal products as a personal sacrifice but he will never announce himself as nor accept the label "vegan".  These labels undermine the faith in both the individual accepting them and in society at large.  We should always guard against accepting labels that have been created or co-opted by the forces of evil.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 08:12:49 AM »
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    • A very astute observation by TKGS. A Catholic should never call themselves a vegan. 

    My neighbors wife (non-Catholic)  is a vegan, its a recent change in the last 2 years, she was slim and fit before, now she's put on weight, she looks bloated, a big change. I think it is from eating too much soybean based protein. The two vegans I know, look unhealthy. 

    I do not believe any major deviation from a traditional diet is going to be good for you. If you eat fresh vegetables, fruits, whole breads, and meats, butter, eggs......, avoid processed foods and overeating, and do exercise and physical activity, you will not need any of these "new and improved marketing ploys" like veganism and such. One can try one of these gimmicks, like the paleo diet to get back to healty weight more quickly, however, one should always return to a traditional diet. People who are overweight and unhealthy are so because they ate junk and didn't exercise. It is that simple. 
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    Offline Peter15and1

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 10:28:46 AM »
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    • Personally, I've never thought of "vegan" as a political term, rather just as a description (a person who does not eat animal products of any kind).  However, that's just an argument over semantics.  A Catholic could certainly choose to not eat any animal product if he so chooses.  I believe the Carthusians, for example, practice perpetual abstinence from meat.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 12:00:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Peter15and1 on June 26, 2017, 10:28:46 AM
    Personally, I've never thought of "vegan" as a political term, rather just as a description (a person who does not eat animal products of any kind).  However, that's just an argument over semantics.  A Catholic could certainly choose to not eat any animal product if he so chooses.  I believe the Carthusians, for example, practice perpetual abstinence from meat.
    You should re-read what I wrote and actually try to understand what it is I wrote.
    Of course a Catholic can choose to practice perpetual abstinence.  What he cannot do is identify as "vegan".  You should be grateful that you are disconnected enough from society so as to not consider the political meaning of the term; but it seems odd that you could be disconnected in such a way as to understand the term but not understand how society views it.  
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    Offline Peter15and1

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 01:19:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: TKGS on June 26, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
    You should re-read what I wrote and actually try to understand what it is I wrote.
    Of course a Catholic can choose to practice perpetual abstinence.  What he cannot do is identify as "vegan".  You should be grateful that you are disconnected enough from society so as to not consider the political meaning of the term; but it seems odd that you could be disconnected in such a way as to understand the term but not understand how society views it.  
    I did read your post carefully; I simply disagree with it.  To me, if a person identifies themselves as a "vegan," it indicates their unwillingness to eat food that comes from animals, and nothing more.

    It's the answer to the question that follows--"why are you a vegan?"--where problems could arise.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 01:37:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Peter15and1 on June 26, 2017, 01:19:32 PM
    I did read your post carefully; I simply disagree with it.  To me, if a person identifies themselves as a "vegan," it indicates their unwillingness to eat food that comes from animals, and nothing more.

    It's the answer to the question that follows--"why are you a vegan?"--where problems could arise.
    No.  You didn't simply disagree.  Your reply indicated that you can't understand (or are unwilling to understand) the objection.  This is the same kind of attitude we saw about the use of the Pagan screen name, "Student of Qi".
    I guess when people are so imbued with the popular culture that they can't see the problem, then it best to simply shake the dust of the feet.
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    Offline Peter15and1

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #7 on: June 26, 2017, 02:21:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: TKGS on June 26, 2017, 01:37:34 PM
    No.  You didn't simply disagree.  Your reply indicated that you can't understand (or are unwilling to understand) the objection.  This is the same kind of attitude we saw about the use of the Pagan screen name, "Student of Qi".
    I guess when people are so imbued with the popular culture that they can't see the problem, then it best to simply shake the dust of the feet.
    I do understand the objection, I just disagree with it.  The word "vegan," to me, means a person who refrains from eating animal products, and nothing more.  Clearly, the word means something different to you, and includes with it certain political connotations.  The dictionary agrees with me.  Perhaps most of society would agree with you, I don't know.  For you to make the claim, however, that a Catholic is undermining the faith by calling himself a vegan, you would have to provide actual evidence that the word "vegan" carries with it the baggage you claim.

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/vegan?s=t
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegan
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    Offline ClarkSmith

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #8 on: June 26, 2017, 03:05:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Peter15and1 on June 26, 2017, 10:28:46 AM
    Personally, I've never thought of "vegan" as a political term, rather just as a description (a person who does not eat animal products of any kind).  However, that's just an argument over semantics.  A Catholic could certainly choose to not eat any animal product if he so chooses.  I believe the Carthusians, for example, practice perpetual abstinence from meat.
    Carthusians followed a diet closer to a pescatarian diet because they ate fish, eggs, and cheese. 
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    Offline Jovita

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #9 on: June 26, 2017, 03:56:13 PM »
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    • We need to take back our vocabulary. gαy means lighthearted and carefree. The rainbow is a symbol of God's covenant with Noah. To be vegan is to be a strict vegetarian, not eating any animal products or products produced by animals (no milk or milk products, no eggs, no honey). It is not political. I have a family member who is a strict vegan due to medical protocols for MS. Since the diet started she has not relapsed. We cater too much to disordered people. 

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #10 on: June 26, 2017, 04:04:51 PM »
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    a strict vegetarian who consumes no food (such as meat, eggs, or dairy products) that comes from animals; also :  one who abstains from using animal products (such as leather)

    A Catholic would have serious issues with such a practice or agenda.

    WHY are you abstaining from any product that comes from animals? Because they "animals are people too"? Because monkeys evolved into man, and so for all we know dolphins and other animals might be intelligent life? Because God didn't give animals to us for our use? Because only cavemen (like the Patriarchs, prophets, Apostles, saints, etc.) would be so primitive as to eat meat? Because there isn't a God in the first place? Because God doesn't know what's good for our health?

    Think about it.

    Also, whatever health benefits vegetarianism provides, there is NO health benefit to not using "animal products" like leather. The only reason to abstain from leather is due to pagan, new-age, or other non-Catholic beliefs.

    Let's put it this way: abstaining from all animals (and animal products) in a vegan manner suggests that "God made a mistake" -- a blasphemy that any Catholic should hold in horror.


    Quote
    Genesis Chapter 9

    [1] And God blessed Noe and his sons. And he said to them: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth. [2] And let the fear and dread of you be upon all the beasts of the earth, and upon all the fowls of the air, and all that move upon the earth: all the fishes of the sea are delivered into your hand. [3] And every thing that moveth and liveth shall be meat for you: even as the green herbs have I delivered them all to you: 
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #11 on: June 26, 2017, 04:12:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on June 26, 2017, 04:04:51 PM
    A Catholic would have serious issues with such a practice or agenda.

    WHY are you abstaining from any product that comes from animals? Because they are on an equal footing with men? Because God didn't give them to us for our use? Because only cavemen (like the Patriarchs, prophets, Apostles, saints, etc.) would be so primitive as to eat meat? Because there isn't a God in the first place?

    Think about it.

    Also, whatever health benefits vegetarianism provides, there is NO health benefit to not using "animal products" like leather. The only reason to abstain from leather is due to pagan, new-age, or other non-Catholic beliefs.

    Let's put it this way: abstaining from all animals (and animal products) in a vegan manner suggests that "God made a mistake" -- a blasphemy that any Catholic should hold in horror.
    Most vegans just don't eat meat, eggs or food with animal products. That's all. I've never met one that doesn't use animal products, they just don't eat them. 
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #12 on: June 26, 2017, 05:13:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: JezusDeKoning on June 26, 2017, 04:12:32 PM
    Most vegans just don't eat meat, eggs or food with animal products. That's all. I've never met one that doesn't use animal products, they just don't eat them.
    Back in the 1970s, they used to throw paint on the fur coats worn by rich women and actresses before they became enlightened and stopped wearing them.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #13 on: June 26, 2017, 05:18:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jovita on June 26, 2017, 03:56:13 PM
    We need to take back our vocabulary. gαy means lighthearted and carefree. The rainbow is a symbol of God's covenant with Noah. To be vegan is to be a strict vegetarian, not eating any animal products or products produced by animals (no milk or milk products, no eggs, no honey). It is not political. I have a family member who is a strict vegan due to medical protocols for MS. Since the diet started she has not relapsed. We cater too much to disordered people.
    That's a nice thought.  Next time you're at a party and having a really good time, just tell everyone how gαy you are.
      
    The problem with this sentiment is that the small minority of English speakers are simply not going to be able to "take back the vocabulary".  The best we can do is refrain from using the vocabulary that has been perverted--but it doesn't seem that many people have the ability to understand this and wish to stubbornly continue using a vocabulary that will present a false impression to virtually everyone they meet.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Any vegans here?
    « Reply #14 on: June 26, 2017, 05:37:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: JezusDeKoning on June 26, 2017, 04:12:32 PM
    Most vegans just don't eat meat, eggs or food with animal products. That's all. I've never met one that doesn't use animal products, they just don't eat them.
    Vegans by definition do not use animal products, their main objective is to not kill animals, think about it, why would they use products produced by killing animals (leather)  if they do not even eat eggs?
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