Author Topic: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics  (Read 425 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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  • The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Pope St. Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:

    “It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.

    What does this mean? It is very clear, and really needs no explanations, except in our times, because Catholics have been brainwashed to believe that everyone who is nice to others will go to Heaven.

    It is saying that if someone dies an infidel, they are damned. It does not say they may be damned, it says they are damned. For those who answer, no one but God knows who is damned, I answer that  what God knows is irrelevant here, as it is God Himself who is telling us here that if someone dies an infidel, they are damned. That "if  " is a qualifier, without the "if", this means nothing.  It is no coincidence that they use Confucius, as an example, for who could be more "nice" than Confucius?

    You can also change that to: It is not allowed to affirm that any non-Catholic was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as non-Catholics are damned”.

    Some typical modernist objections I've been asked on CI:

    Q: What if a baptized Protestant had a deathbed conversion that we knew nothing about?
    A: That is what is called a qualifier, it changes everything, the person then would not be a Protestant, he would be a Catholic convert. The  Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith quote above does not apply, the person is a Catholic, not an infidel or a Protestant.

    When we are asked about the salvation of the dead of other religions than the Catholic religion we are told to answer "those who die as infidels are damned".

    We can't say may they (Billy Graham, the Dali Lama, or Ghandi) rest in peace, for rest in peace means he is in Heaven.



    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 09:45:40 AM »
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  • Sorry for the different font sizing, this new CI format is a pain when one is copying and pasting from other documents.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 10:03:52 AM »
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  • St. Peter Julian Eymard – Bad Catholic vs Good Protestant 

    People often say, “It is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic.” That is not true! That would mean that one could be saved without the true faith. No. A bad Catholic remains a child of the family, although a prodigal; and however great a sinner he may be, he still has a right to mercy. Through his faith, a bad Catholic is nearer to God than a Protestant, for he is a member of the household, whereas the heretic is not. And how hard it is to make him become one!

    St. Peter Julian Eymard 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 10:23:11 AM »
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  • And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

    1 Peter 4:18 
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 10:53:11 AM »
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  • The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Pope St. Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:

    “It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.

    What does this mean? It is very clear, and really needs no explanations, except in our times, because Catholics have been brainwashed to believe that everyone who is nice to others will go to Heaven.

    It is saying that if someone dies an infidel, they are damned. It does not say they may be damned, it says they are damned. For those who answer, no one but God knows who is damned, I answer that  what God knows is irrelevant here, as it is God Himself who is telling us here that if someone dies an infidel, they are damned. That "if  " is a qualifier, without the "if", this means nothing.  It is no coincidence that they use Confucius, as an example, for who could be more "nice" than Confucius?

    You can also change that to: It is not allowed to affirm that any non-Catholic was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as non-Catholics are damned”.

    Some typical modernist objections I've been asked on CI:

    Q: What if a baptized Protestant had a deathbed conversion that we knew nothing about?
    A: That is what is called a qualifier, it changes everything, the person then would not be a Protestant, he would be a Catholic convert. The  Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith quote above does not apply, the person is a Catholic, not an infidel or a Protestant.

    When we are asked about the salvation of the dead of other religions than the Catholic religion we are told to answer "those who die as infidels are damned".

    We can't say may they (Billy Graham, the Dali Lama, or Ghandi) rest in peace, for rest in peace means he is in Heaven.
    "Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.

    What about bod? All the infidel has to do is desire baptism and he won't be damned after all.  Who cares about this statement? Is this an invitation to judge people? Obviously, the misguided Congregation was mistaken. The SCPF and Pius X are blowing it big time.  Saint stories, catechisms and theologians prove that desire alone can save people despite what Scripture and the Church teach, and since no one knows if someone got bod and went to heaven, then it's probably a sin to say infidels go to hell.
    (The paragraph above courtesy of bod)         
     Sorry for bringing up the subject out of its place.


    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 11:00:53 AM »
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  • Quote
    Oh, but there's bod! All the infidel has to do is desire baptism and he won't be damned after all.

    Oh wait, it gets crazier than that...the infidel may be a Catholic without knowing it....An anonymus Catholic in disguise so to speak.

    And to think that the vast majority of Traditional Catholics are under this belief, I simply do not understand it! It must be that sentimentalist wishful thinking and attachment to creatures completely eclipse in their minds the truths which God has clearly revealed.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 11:09:21 AM »
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  • Ah, but what if some angel appeared to Confucius as he lay dying, taught him the essential mysteries of the faith, and baptized him?

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #7 on: March 06, 2018, 11:21:38 AM »
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  • Ah, but what if some angel appeared to Confucius as he lay dying, taught him the essential mysteries of the faith, and baptized him?
    According to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, we should consider him lost (unless we were to witness such a great moment).  After, if we were to obtain heaven, we would enjoy celebrating him among the living for having received Baptism.


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #8 on: March 06, 2018, 11:25:39 AM »
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  • Oh wait, it gets crazier than that...the infidel may be a Catholic without knowing it....An anonymus Catholic in disguise so to speak.

    And to think that the vast majority of Traditional Catholics are under this belief, I simply do not understand it! It must be that sentimentalist wishful thinking and attachment to creatures completely eclipse in their minds the truths which God has clearly revealed.
    I can only imagine telling some non-Catholic he is actually an anonymous Catholic... he'd probably punch my lights out. 

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #9 on: March 06, 2018, 11:28:51 AM »
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  • "Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.

    What about bod? All the infidel has to do is desire baptism and he won't be damned after all.  Who cares about this statement? Is this an invitation to judge people? Obviously, the misguided Congregation was mistaken. The SCPF and Pius X are blowing it big time.  Saint stories, catechisms and theologians prove that desire alone can save people despite what Scripture and the Church teach, and since no one knows if someone got bod and went to heaven, then it's probably a sin to say infidels go to hell.
    (The paragraph above courtesy of bod)          
     Sorry for bringing up the subject out of its place.
    the thing is: If we do not warn people about Hell and how most go there, we will be at least somewhat complicit (probably more than somewhat complicit) in them ending up there. A lot of Catholics are afraid to let the world know they are Catholic, self included at times. And yet I don't know what we are afraid of, really. Catholicism has already been beaten back so much... and the thing is, Catholicism is what this world needs. The devil is stronger than we are, unless we are deep into Christ, and it is not always easy to be that 24/7... but anyway...  

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #10 on: March 06, 2018, 11:36:47 AM »
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  • the thing is: If we do not warn people about Hell and how most go there, we will be at least somewhat complicit (probably more than somewhat complicit) in them ending up there. A lot of Catholics are afraid to let the world know they are Catholic, self included at times. And yet I don't know what we are afraid of, really. Catholicism has already been beaten back so much... and the thing is, Catholicism is what this world needs. The devil is stronger than we are, unless we are deep into Christ, and it is not always easy to be that 24/7... but anyway...  
    Yea, we can easily find ourselves skulking around like Joseph of Arimathea.  At least Scripture described him as a good man.    :)


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Wrong Language in Discussing Salvation of public non-Catholics
    « Reply #11 on: March 06, 2018, 12:47:10 PM »
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  • the thing is: If we do not warn people about Hell and how most go there, we will be at least somewhat complicit (probably more than somewhat complicit) in them ending up there. A lot of Catholics are afraid to let the world know they are Catholic, self included at times. And yet I don't know what we are afraid of, really. Catholicism has already been beaten back so much... and the thing is, Catholicism is what this world needs. The devil is stronger than we are, unless we are deep into Christ, and it is not always easy to be that 24/7... but anyway...  
    You got the point! Very good observation. That is the problem.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

     

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