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Author Topic: Work and salvation.  (Read 1710 times)

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Offline Raoul76

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Work and salvation.
« on: March 23, 2011, 12:20:07 PM »
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  • You must have known I wasn't going to let this one go, Matthew  :wink:

    Quote
    God wants us to do our duty of state. God wants men to work, for example, without exception. Either working at the spiritual life in the Religious Life, working for souls as a priest, or working at a job in the single/married life. Living a life of self-will and leisure is not God's will for ANYONE unless that soul is not going to get any other reward ("Heaven") for the good deeds he has done.


    Excuse me, are you saying that someone who doesn't work goes to hell?  Where is that written?

    This is something that is much on my mind, since I have never really "worked," as in worked worked.  I spent my twenties hatching movie plots and trying to be the next Shakespeare, but I can't call that work.  The problem is that, once I realized the devil had me in his clutches, and I found the Church, I had no experience and no skills, there is literally NOTHING on my resume, except three years of college at UCLA.  

    I have no clue what to do now.  Well, maybe a little clue, but it's kind of Joan of Arc-like and fantastical.  The plan is to study Latin on my own, go to France, prepare for the Chastisement, and hope I survive to do the work of rebuilding in whatever capacity God needs me.  

    Nevertheless, my conscience at times still nags at me, telling me to do something.  But whatever I apply to, I don't get hired.  Before I was baptized, I tried to apply at a hotel as a night desk-clerk, also as a doorman, but when they see me walk in, it looks almost ridiculous, I just have this look of a rich pampered guy and they hire Mexicans, not intellectuals, for that kind of job.  I remember walking into the hotel and the entire staff was Mexican and when I said I wanted the job and had no resume they looked at me like I'd just landed from Mars ( understandably ).

    The first thing after my conversion that I thought of, of course, was being a priest, but I don't fit in at the CMRI.  I've even been told that I wouldn't make it through seminary due to my politics.  They are apparently Republicans, and I have the Droleskey view, that all parties are naturalists.  There are other reasons.  I have great respect for the CMRI priests, but I don't belong as one of them.  Just look at my exchanges with Myrna and you'll see why.  

    Then I was going to study with Dawn's priest and bishop, but had a sort of falling-out with Dawn and I'm uncomfortable with that situation.

    I wonder what God requires of me, what is His will?  Yes, men should work, you should serve society, but what do you do if you KNOW the society is on its way into the toilet and isn't going to last?  We are supposed to use our talents and gifts.  That is a more appropriate way to say it then "We must work."  Well, I have no skills whatsoever in terms of manual labor, and I mean NONE.  I mostly grew up with a single mother and can barely hammer in a nail ( not that my dad would have helped, he can't hammer in a nail either ).  I'm intellectual and verbally gifted, so it's plain to see that I'd excel as a lawyer, like my dad, or a teacher, like my mother.  But should I really go back to college and study to be a lawyer or teacher when I don't believe this society, this country, has a future?  That is like Noah stepping off the Ark and saying "Nah, I'm wrong, I'll just go be an insurance agent and forget about this animal business."  

    By the way, I have come into some money since my mom died, enough so that I could go back to school without having to take out a loan.  But it feels utterly fruitless.  And I believe it is God telling me it is fruitless.  I'd be wasting my money and time, planning for a future that isn't there.  

    Can anyone deny it?  Are you going to tell me I'm just lazy?  Believe me, I'd LOVE to be a French teacher in high school or college, that would be as close as I could come these days to being a Jesuit.  But it's not in the cards.  When they are massively laying off teachers already, what is my incentive to even start?  I know it's not going to get better, but worse.

    So what, Matthew, do you think God DEMANDS that I do?  What if I am in a place right now where I can't use any of my gifts?  Does He want me to do something, anything, even if it's basically not my style?  Should I take whatever I can get, even if it's just being a security guard, taking dangerous work despite that I can afford to be at "leisure"?  How many hours a day should I spend looking for work like this?

    I can't be a religious or priest, not due to my own fault, but due to the crisis.  It is clear that in another age I'd be a St. Alphonsus.  We are exactly alike, if not in terms of sanctity, in terms of our talents:  Lawyer personalities with a mystical streak.  I can easily see myself serving the Church in a BIG way, if it is God's will, but the time is not yet.  In the meantime, what do I do?  Right now I'm thinking I'll teach English in France as a private tutor and that's about it, a part-time thing, studying Latin the rest of the time.  

    Ultimately, my question boils down to this -- if you can't use your gifts and talents, are you required to do something anyway that doesn't use your gifts and talents, even to try to do something that is contrary to your gifts and talents, like being a truck-driver would for me?  Should I transform myself to find a job, to fit in?    
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline Exilenomore

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    Work and salvation.
    « Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 12:33:38 PM »
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  • What about all the lay Saints who retreated into solitude to lead a solitary life without necessarily entering a religious order?


    Offline Raoul76

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    Work and salvation.
    « Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 01:12:18 PM »
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  • I'm not even saying that I want to be like that.  I want to do God's will, whatever it is.  But I don't know how far to bend myself or change, I don't know if that's God's will.  Should someone who is an intellectual become a truck-driver if there are no opportunities to use his real gifts?  Or will I just be chewed up and spit out?  I can't even imagine it.

    Sorry to make the post too personal, maybe I should have been more abstract in pointing out the connection between work, God's will, and salvation.  I wanted some advice, but the thread can go in other directions.

    I know there is someone on this site who is extremely well-educated and yet did blue-collar jobs, so I don't want to make excuses for myself.  But I don't think anyone will hire me for blue-collar jobs, as I'm a weedy demi-Polock who is built like Leo DiCaprio circa Titanic, and I'm only slightly exaggerating.  

    Well, God will work it out.  I just have to stop worrying and wait for something that feels right.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Matthew

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    Work and salvation.
    « Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 01:14:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    You must have known I wasn't going to let this one go, Matthew  :wink:

    Quote
    God wants us to do our duty of state. God wants men to work, for example, without exception. Either working at the spiritual life in the Religious Life, working for souls as a priest, or working at a job in the single/married life. Living a life of self-will and leisure is not God's will for ANYONE unless that soul is not going to get any other reward ("Heaven") for the good deeds he has done.


    Excuse me, are you saying that someone who doesn't work goes to hell?  Where is that written?


    I do know that you can't expect "eternal rest" if your life has been one of rest and leisure -- that's just common sense.

    And no, everyone who doesn't work isn't going to be damned -- as long as it's not his fault.

    I think it's like prayer -- not praying isn't a mortal sin, but a habit of never praying? There's a sin in there somewhere, and not a trivial one either.

    Matthew
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    Offline Matthew

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    Work and salvation.
    « Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 01:17:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Exilenomore
    What about all the lay Saints who retreated into solitude to lead a solitary life without necessarily entering a religious order?


    I already answered this point in the original post that Raoul split this topic from.

    Spiritual work counts as work.

    Work does not always equal a paycheck. You could volunteer, work to get closer to God, etc.

    All the vocations (marriage, religious, priesthood) involve work. The single life needs to involve some kind of work as well -- and not all for oneself, or salvation would be very difficult.

    For those who plan on being single till death -- pick a cause and donate your time. Write books exposing how TV brainwashes people. Feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, build up the Church -- something.

    God didn't give you 70 years so you could lead a life of self-directed leisure.

    Matthew
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    Offline Matthew

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    Work and salvation.
    « Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 01:24:44 PM »
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  • By the way, Raoul, you sound SO MUCH like my little sister who is 29. (Yes, she used to be on this board. Guess who?) She has told me the same things, many times. She also has no gainful employment, and hasn't for years. She is also a deep melancholic thinker.

    She is near-genius at writing fiction. That is, she is kind of a prodigy when it comes to imagination. She has all the characters alive in her head, and she writes down what she observes as the story unfolds in her head. And people read her work, and are very impressed!

    Her problem is directing it -- discipline. When she's inspired, she can write and write and write. But she has a hard time finishing things. I can relate to some degree, but I've known other artists and they are the same way. They need a business/left-brained person to "guide" them to finish something, I guess.

    She also has physical issues, especially lately. Carpel tunnel, etc.

    Matthew
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    Offline Raoul76

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    Work and salvation.
    « Reply #6 on: March 23, 2011, 01:47:11 PM »
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  • Quote
    For those who plan on being single till death -- pick a cause and donate your time. Write books exposing how TV brainwashes people. Feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, build up the Church -- something


    How about posting on CathInfo?

    No, I agree, one has to fill one's days and do good works.  To me learning about the Church and learning Latin in hopes of one day becoming a priest is work ( someone is going to have to do the work of Restoration, who is it going to be? )  But just to back myself up, in case that's not God's will, maybe I will volunteer or tutor in French or English.  I'll just keep trying.

    Sometimes I get stressed and feel like I'm not doing enough.  Before my mom died, I applied to be a security guard, and they asked me to call or come down.  Then I thought "Surely I can do better than this."  If I had to be a security guard to survive, I would, but I don't.  If I had taken the job, I'd have had to leave by now, since for the next couple months my job will be taking care of the "estate."  I've had to take a crash course in learning about lawyers and finances and banks and real estate.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Exilenomore

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    Work and salvation.
    « Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 01:50:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: Exilenomore
    What about all the lay Saints who retreated into solitude to lead a solitary life without necessarily entering a religious order?


    I already answered this point in the original post that Raoul split this topic from.

    Spiritual work counts as work.

    Work does not always equal a paycheck. You could volunteer, work to get closer to God, etc.

    All the vocations (marriage, religious, priesthood) involve work. The single life needs to involve some kind of work as well -- and not all for oneself, or salvation would be very difficult.

    For those who plan on being single till death -- pick a cause and donate your time. Write books exposing how TV brainwashes people. Feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, build up the Church -- something.

    God didn't give you 70 years so you could lead a life of self-directed leisure.

    Matthew


    In that case I definately agree with  you.


    Offline Raoul76

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    Work and salvation.
    « Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 01:51:29 PM »
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  • Quote
    I do know that you can't expect "eternal rest" if your life has been one of rest and leisure -- that's just common sense.

    And no, everyone who doesn't work isn't going to be damned -- as long as it's not his fault.


    How do you determine the fault?  This gets back to my original question -- do you have to take any job that comes along, or should you spend more time looking for a place where you can use your gifts?  I know Catholics who are idle and not looking for employment, just living on their money, not just me.  Work is hard to find, but they could be looking harder for work if they really wanted it.  Where is the line?

    I think this is your own theory anyway.  A Catholic who doesn't work is not at "leisure," it's not like you're sitting around fornicating.  What they call sloth is really "acedia," meaning SPIRITUAL sloth.

    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Raoul76

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    Work and salvation.
    « Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 02:03:36 PM »
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  • Let's put this in its historical context.  Catholics work to serve society, but society as we know it is on its way out.  This is a fact.  It's not like those people in the 4th century or whenever who thought Anti-Christ was coming and there was no need to work -- this has nothing to do with prophecy, but with economics.  We are losing jobs by the day, the economy is based on debt, and it's all going to collapse.  

    Not to mention, the Church is nearly dead.  In such a case, would it be wrong to take extraordinary measures, to study and spiritually prepare in case God needs me in the future?  

    I read somewhere that if all the priests in a certain town are heretics, not only are laymen recommended to teach about the Catholic religion, to correct the errors, but they are OBLIGATED to do so.  Of course, not all priests are heretics today, but the Church is in trouble and more people need to do something.

    The bottom line is that I have a sense of utter futility at the mere thought of trying to serve THIS society, knowing what I know, in terms of getting what's called a regular job.  I know America is Mystery Babylon, I know it's going to collapse, I know the Restoration will start in France, even if others disagree.  That knowledge is from God.  

    I am not lazy.  Just the opposite -- I am freakishly ambitious.  But I feel like there is nothing to do except what I outlined above.  The future is all that matters, the Restoration.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 02:11:43 PM »
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  • Another problem -- if I told the priests at CMRI that I wanted to go to France and be part of the Restoration, they'd just pooh-pooh it.  They don't believe in the Great Monarch, at least the two I've talked to about it don't.  I get the impression they think this is the end.  Well, sorry, it's not.

    This is why I say "Joan of Arc."  But I am not as confident as her, and can't claim divine inspiration.  Nor do I know for a fact that I have some major role to play in the Restoration.  What I am sure about is my sense of prophecy, of upcoming events.  I am uncannily gifted in that sense.   It is only my personal role, if I have any, that remains unclear.

    I am torn on the pincers of doubt.  I don't know if I am living in a fantasy world and failing to do God's will, or if I lack faith, if I should throw myself MORE into my "fantasies" which are really reality.  Maybe I really am Joan of Arc and just am afraid to claim it.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 02:18:54 PM »
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  • If the Great Monarch were alive today, do you suppose he would find and start posting on CathInfo?   Maybe he already has?  Maybe he STARTED CathInfo?  :wink:

    JUST KIDDING!

    Anyhow...

    You can't just give up on the world God put you in. The fact is that God hasn't given up -- we're all still here drawing breath. The pagans around us are still drawing breath. So SOMEONE needs to try to save them.

    There is a very awesome quote I heard at the Seminary from Cardinal Pii -- it was something along the lines of, "God doesn't want your results, he wants your effort and labor"

    I think that is very appropriate for those living today.

    I think we all need to know our Faith inside and out, and LIVE it like a walking sermon. What did a saint say, "Preach often. When necessary, use words."

    Your actions speak much louder than any words anyhow.
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    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #12 on: March 23, 2011, 02:22:16 PM »
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  • Raoul, I can't help but think that the devil is playing a trick on you.

    He is appealing to your Hollywood, lofty dreamer side to make you wait until the Restoration and then "Oh BOY will I ever help save souls like a superstar!" when God simply wants you to apply yourself today, and maybe help (and/or convert) 2 or 3 people today.

    The devil is nothing if not clever.

    You wouldn't be the first -- or the last -- man the devil deceived.
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    Offline Matto

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    Work and salvation.
    « Reply #13 on: March 23, 2011, 02:35:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    If the Great Monarch were alive today, do you suppose he would find and start posting on CathInfo?   Maybe he already has?

     Matthew, don't you remember that the Great Monarch was a poster here before you banned him :wink:

    I admire Raoul's faith in the prophecies about a coming restoration. I hope he is right and plays a role in it.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #14 on: March 23, 2011, 02:37:15 PM »
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  • Maybe CathInfo is to play a huge part in it...

    Maybe we're to help form a true Catholic sense in the man who is to be the Great Monarch (Raoul)...
     :king:
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