Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: trickster on August 12, 2014, 11:17:52 PM
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While Traditional Catholicism is not "stuck in the past" it is a faith that takes what the church has taught until Vatican II and uses that as a guide to living today in 2014, but it it seems that a lot of Traditional Catholics are stuck in the past or obsessed with a more feudal interpretation of Catholicism.. They live and talk as if the end of time was 1962 and that nothing valid ever happened after Vatican II. That Vatican II was somehow the death nail of the church despite the evidence to the contrary (i.e. World Youth Days, the New evangelization, etc.)
This is as brilliant as old fashion conservatives thinking that women are subservient to men in western civilization and they really belong in the kitchen and they exist only to raise children.
We know that this is not true, so why is it that we have rhetoric along those lines, should we not a abandon those old outdated ideas? Should we not revisit the role, power and spirituality of women; of the many generations of nuns who showed leadership in this church often at the anger of politically or theologically pure catholics and/or their bishops?
Our faith is not a thing, it is a dynamic of relationship, it must be a struggle that is worked out a whole life time
Bruce
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Have you been to a World Youth Day?
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Sorry, but I like the order which God has ordained. I love and embrace my duties, and I have no desire for "dialogue" which would seek to usurp my role.
In short, stay out of my kitchen. :fryingpan:
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That Vatican II was somehow the death nail of the church despite the evidence to the contrary (i.e. World Youth Days, the New evangelization, etc.)
(http://joao.machado-family.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Ordinations_Graph2.png)
(http://www.traditionalcatholicmass.com/V2%20rotten%20fruits-5.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jCLJb9lPZaQ/RnGYwJMJJHI/AAAAAAAAAUI/p67v4fcb8HQ/s400/decay_figure1.gif)
(http://www.novusordowatch.org/clown_mass_large.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6Y6f0Gg7wDM/TzJqJSfUf5I/AAAAAAAAFwM/8A0kNnKhQuI/s1600/001kgpab.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x2HJKTdlaBc/U6-YrK8JBAI/AAAAAAAASm8/d9GIxE6GaLY/s1600/pre-pride_Mass2014-1024x696.jpg)
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/NPNomC8ON08[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/f-1LLFbZJCA[/youtube]
This is as brilliant as old fashion conservatives thinking that women are subservient to men in western civilization and they really belong in the kitchen and they exist only to raise children.
We know that this is not true, so why is it that we have rhetoric along those lines, should we not a abandon those old outdated ideas?
Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord: Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body. Therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things.
Epistle of St Paul to the Ephesians v:xxii-xxiv
"Woman can never be man's equal, and cannot, therefore, enjoy equal rights. Few women would ever desire to legislate, and those who did would only be classed as eccentrics."
-Pope St. Pius X
74. The same false teachers who try to dim the luster of conjugal faith and purity do not scruple to do away with the honorable and trusting obedience which the woman owes to the man. Many of them even go further and assert that such a subjection of one party to the other is unworthy of human dignity, that the rights of husband and wife are equal; wherefore, they boldly proclaim the emancipation of women has been or ought to be effected. This emancipation in their ideas must be threefold, in the ruling of the domestic society, in the administration of family affairs and in the rearing of the children. It must be social, economic, physiological: -- physiological, that is to say, the woman is to be freed at her own good pleasure from the burdensome duties properly belonging to a wife as companion and mother (We have already said that this is not an emancipation but a crime); social, inasmuch as the wife being freed from the cares of children and family, should, to the neglect of these, be able to follow her own bent and devote herself to business and even public affairs; finally economic, whereby the woman even without the knowledge and against the wish of her husband may be at liberty to conduct and administer her own affairs, giving her attention chiefly to these rather than to children, husband and family.
75. This, however, is not the true emancipation of woman, nor that rational and exalted liberty which belongs to the noble office of a Christian woman and wife; it is rather the debasing of the womanly character and the dignity of motherhood, and indeed of the whole family, as a result of which the husband suffers the loss of his wife, the children of their mother, and the home and the whole family of an ever watchful guardian. More than this, this false liberty and unnatural equality with the husband is to the detriment of the woman herself, for if the woman descends from her truly regal throne to which she has been raised within the walls of the home by means of the Gospel, she will soon be reduced to the old state of slavery (if not in appearance, certainly in reality) and become as amongst the pagans the mere instrument of man.
76. This equality of rights which is so much exaggerated and distorted, must indeed be recognized in those rights which belong to the dignity of the human soul and which are proper to the marriage contract and inseparably bound up with wedlock. In such things undoubtedly both parties enjoy the same rights and are bound by the same obligations; in other things there must be a certain inequality and due accommodation, which is demanded by the good of the family and the right ordering and unity and stability of home life.
Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii
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This is as brilliant as old fashion conservatives thinking that women are subservient to men in western civilization and they really belong in the kitchen and they exist only to raise children.
We know that this is not true, so why is it that we have rhetoric along those lines, should we not a abandon those old outdated ideas? Should we not revisit the role, power and spirituality of women; of the many generations of nuns who showed leadership in this church often at the anger of politically or theologically pure catholics and/or their bishops?
Bruce
The fact that women exist to partake in God's divinity by making and raising human children for the glory of God, in their God-given place which is home, is actually a most worthy blessing and obligation from God. This God given role is worth of infinite praise and respect. The negativity attributed by the modernist feminists to this natural woman's role as something subservient or unworthy is wrong and sinful.
Spare me from this diabolical feminism that has annihilated the true woman and mother, the home, the family, and so the entire world.
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I'm happier in the sewing room or in the garden than I am in the kitchen, though I do my best to serve my husband good nourishing fare. After all, I did promise to love, honour and obey him, and I expect that means feeding him.
I love being a Mother and now I love being a Grandmother.
Of course, if I hadn't entered into the Sacrament of Marriage, it would be a different matter.
Nuns in position of leadership? Can you give us an example please, Bruce?
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This is as brilliant as old fashion conservatives thinking that women are subservient to men in western civilization and they really belong in the kitchen and they exist only to raise children.
We know that this is not true, so why is it that we have rhetoric along those lines, should we not a abandon those old outdated ideas? Should we not revisit the role, power and spirituality of women; of the many generations of nuns who showed leadership in this church often at the anger of politically or theologically pure catholics and/or their bishops?
Bruce
The fact that women exist to partake in God's divinity by making and raising human children for the glory of God, in their God-given place which is home, is actually a most worthy blessing and obligation from God. This God given role is worth of infinite praise and respect. The negativity attributed by the modernist feminists to this natural woman's role as something subservient or unworthy is wrong and sinful.
Spare me from this diabolical feminism that has annihilated the true woman and mother, the home, the family, and so the entire world.
Trickster, this kind of thinking may be expected in the modernist Novus Ordo, but is not welcome in Traditionalist circles.
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There is so much wrong with your thinking.
The devil tells people that Tradition says "Women belong in the kitchen," with all the negative connotations.
So what happens?
Women leave the home to pursue careers outside and leave their family neglected. Yes, neglected, at best feeding them highly processed foods and not nurturing the home; at worse feeding them fast food and dropping their children off at daycare to be raised by strangers.
Motherhood is perhaps the greatest job out there. "Job" isn't even the correct term. Ever see a loving mother who makes a nurturing home for her family? Perhaps you grew up in one? It's a beautiful and holy thing she has created. Ever see a home without a fulltime mother? It's ugly. They treat their home like a motel room only crashing there at night.
Did Mother Mary work outside the home? Did she go off every day to work in a sandal shop or restaurant? Did she leave Jesus to fend for himself while she chased a few more dollars? No, she cared for her family.
Motherhood is the highest and noblest profession out there.
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Please ban the Troll. He's trying to convert us and we're casting pearls before swine.
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I am offended that trickster thinks that my job in the kitchen is not worthy, my kitchen is where the heart of the home is. It is not just bricks and mortar or machines. It is where I cook for the family, it is where I hug my kids in the morning and loads more times during the day, its where my kids run to to ask me for a plaster for their cut finger, its where my husband greets me when he comes home and he starts to tell me about his day, its where my neighbours sit and chat, its where my Sacred Heart is on display during our Rosary, I could go on.
I get enough of this claptrap from the modern world when I say I am a stay at home mum, I don't need to read it here.
I love my kitchen.
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I am offended that trickster thinks that my job in the kitchen is not worthy, my kitchen is where the heart of the home is. It is not just bricks and mortar or machines. It is where I cook for the family, it is where I hug my kids in the morning and loads more times during the day, its where my kids run to to ask me for a plaster for their cut finger, its where my husband greets me when he comes home and he starts to tell me about his day, its where my neighbours sit and chat, its where my Sacred Heart is on display during our Rosary, I could go on.
I get enough of this claptrap from the modern world when I say I am a stay at home mum, I don't need to read it here.
I love my kitchen.
Amen. Your offense is just and well-founded. Feminism, like all of the devil's lying doctrines, is all about the debasement of those it purports to liberate.
As Pope Pius XI said:
This, however, is not the true emancipation of woman, nor that rational and exalted liberty which belongs to the noble office of a Christian woman and wife; it is rather the debasing of the womanly character and the dignity of motherhood, and indeed of the whole family, as a result of which the husband suffers the loss of his wife, the children of their mother, and the home and the whole family of an ever watchful guardian. More than this, this false liberty and unnatural equality with the husband is to the detriment of the woman herself, for if the woman descends from her truly regal throne to which she has been raised within the walls of the home by means of the Gospel, she will soon be reduced to the old state of slavery (if not in appearance, certainly in reality) and become as amongst the pagans the mere instrument of man.
Far from our believing that the world "ended" in the 1960's, it is the modernists like Trickster who believe, for all intents and purposes, that that was when everything began. We merely seek to be Catholics as Catholics had always been, and cling to traditional social norms that follow from God's Natural Law, and not Satan's overturning of it (which is always falsely characterized as "changing with times,"as though that justifies embracing diabolical disorientation).
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While Traditional Catholicism is not "stuck in the past" it is a faith that takes what the church has taught until Vatican II and uses that as a guide to living today in 2014, but it it seems that a lot of Traditional Catholics are stuck in the past or obsessed with a more feudal interpretation of Catholicism.. They live and talk as if the end of time was 1962 and that nothing valid ever happened after Vatican II. That Vatican II was somehow the death nail of the church despite the evidence to the contrary (i.e. World Youth Days, the New evangelization, etc.)
This is as brilliant as old fashion conservatives thinking that women are subservient to men in western civilization and they really belong in the kitchen and they exist only to raise children.
We know that this is not true, so why is it that we have rhetoric along those lines, should we not a abandon those old outdated ideas? Should we not revisit the role, power and spirituality of women; of the many generations of nuns who showed leadership in this church often at the anger of politically or theologically pure catholics and/or their bishops?
Our faith is not a thing, it is a dynamic of relationship, it must be a struggle that is worked out a whole life time
Bruce
This post is a clear act of proselytism on behalf of Feminism and Modernism. It puts the lie to Trickster's talk of "wanting to learn."
If he wishes to demonstrate that he is of good will and genuinely interested in learning, then he will acknowledge that he has learned something in this thread - namely, that the Feminist errors he espouses in the OP were definitively condemned by Pope Pius XI in Casti Connubii, and he will recant the error he has advocated here.
In fact, if he is truly a man of good will, he will admit the plainly obvious fact that, if he can be wrong in advocating a modern evil so clearly, fundamentally inimical to Natural Law, and so forcefully condemned by the Apostolic See, then he is most likely in error about the other novelties he adheres to and promotes.
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Trickster is a Toastmaster. They cause trouble to any group by spinning wheels and wasting of our time. Trickster is a perfect name for this person. Always best to ignore.
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Wow, what a great response to a posting! I will need some time to address all the thoughts from my perspective.
I do respect the choice of women who want to raise families and "stay in the kitchen" that has never been questioned. In fact I believe that the mass media that pushes the notion of "super mom" (working , raising a family, running a few non-profits while driving the kids to their hockey game at 5 am) is one way the evil one confuses focus on the real purpose of life which is to love God and experience his creation. so in that sense I support a simpler, quieter and even slower life (which I am working on) so that quality of the day may be introduced.
I will need time to address the other points (i.e. scripturally ordained, church infallibility on the role of women) and all that stuff. It's not so much those sources that I am challenging; it is more the exaggerated understanding grass roots traditionalists and Protestant fundamentalists have on the issue.
But more on that later.
Bruce Ferguson
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Wow, what a great response to a posting! I will need some time to address all the thoughts from my perspective.
I do respect the choice of women who want to raise families and "stay in the kitchen" that has never been questioned. In fact I believe that the mass media that pushes the notion of "super mom" (working , raising a family, running a few non-profits while driving the kids to their hockey game at 5 am) is one way the evil one confuses focus on the real purpose of life which is to love God and experience his creation. so in that sense I support a simpler, quieter and even slower life (which I am working on) so that quality of the day may be introduced.
I will need time to address the other points (i.e. scripturally ordained, church infallibility on the role of women) and all that stuff. It's not so much those sources that I am challenging; it is more the exaggerated understanding grass roots traditionalists and Protestant fundamentalists have on the issue.
But more on that later.
Bruce Ferguson
How the hell can you challenge the "understanding," if you don't even know the Church doctrine itself that is being "understood?"
Feminism is a damnable modernist error. Period. It arrived on the world stage in the 20th Century and was promptly shot down by a clear, perfectly easy to understand condemnation by Pope Pius XI in Casti Connubii, cited above. Case closed.
The "grass roots traditionalists" (nice how you employ the association fallacy by lumping us in with Protestants who, to their credit, at least obey Natural Law), do nothing at all but live according to Natural Law and universal human tradition, as our grandparents, great-granparents, etc, etc ad infinitum, lived. Even the overhwelming majority of pagans lived this way. There's nothing at all complicated or confusing about it. But then confusion is something of a stock in trade for Modernists.
Behold the supernatural insight possessed by this great, sainted pope. Does it sound like he's describing one of the posters here?
"It is one of the cleverest devices of the Modernists (as they are commonly and rightly called) to present their doctrines without order and systematic arrangement, in a scattered and disjointed manner, so as to make it appear as if their minds were in doubt or hesitation, whereas in reality they are quite fixed and steadfast."
-Pope St Pius X, Pascendi Dominici Gregis
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Let's give Bruce the benefit of the doubt. He may actually be a lifelong novus ordite who is curious what Traditional Catholicism is all about. Novus ordites approach subjects in the manner Bruce approaches them. Let's just answer his questions. If he's just here to troll, it will be evident sooner rather than later.
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Let's give Bruce the benefit of the doubt. He may actually be a lifelong novus ordite who is curious what Traditional Catholicism is all about. Novus ordites approach subjects in the manner Bruce approaches them. Let's just answer his questions. If he's just here to troll, it will be evident sooner rather than later.
I think 'sooner' has already arrived. Trickster talks too much and listens too little. I applaud BTNYC for continuing to reply to him.
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Bruse,
Is your wife's name Jayne by any chance?
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Bruse,
Is your wife's name Jayne by any chance?
I was thinking he seems a lot like her too. Other than being a product of the chaotic repulsive 60s and annoying as hell like her, I don't know why he reminds me so much of her. What resemblance to you see?
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Just the way he tries to makes it seem like the NO way is somehow fine.
I know her husband posted before at FE but I can't remember what is nickname was - this fellow sounds very much like him.
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Masonic Rhetoric - art of persuasion/influencing an audience in a particular way (Common Purpose Marxist scuм are particularly taught how to sway groups to their way of thinking),
(Obs) Rhetor'ick', Rhetor'icke' (David 'ICKE') (Tr-ick-ster)
'Bruce'
- Robert the bruce = Scottish Masons.
The Jєω-Masonic squad screw up Europe and infect it with their Marxist poisons from Brussels.
Bruce was spelled 'Brus' (Brus-sels)
Bruce was also spelled Brusse or Brux > Brux-elles
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Masonic Rhetoric - art of persuasion/influencing an audience in a particular way (Common Purpose Marxist scuм are particularly taught how to sway groups to their way of thinking),
(Obs) Rhetor'ick', Rhetor'icke' (David 'ICKE') (Tr-ick-ster)
'Bruce'
- Robert the bruce = Scottish Masons.
The Jєω-Masonic squad screw up Europe and infect it with their Marxist poisons from Brussels.
Bruce was spelled 'Brus' (Brus-sels)
Bruce was also spelled Brusse or Brux > Brux-elles
Etymology is indeed very interesting.
But to treat it as an oracle is superstitious, if not fully idolatrous.
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Masonic Rhetoric - art of persuasion/influencing an audience in a particular way (Common Purpose Marxist scuм are particularly taught how to sway groups to their way of thinking),
(Obs) Rhetor'ick', Rhetor'icke' (David 'ICKE') (Tr-ick-ster)
'Bruce'
- Robert the bruce = Scottish Masons.
The Jєω-Masonic squad screw up Europe and infect it with their Marxist poisons from Brussels.
Bruce was spelled 'Brus' (Brus-sels)
Bruce was also spelled Brusse or Brux > Brux-elles
Etymology is indeed very interesting.
But to treat it as an oracle is superstitious, if not fully idolatrous.
Take it or leave it - do your own research ALWAYS!
A 'Brucie Bonus'
Remember something called D-Day (d=4 dd = 44) 6.6.44
Landed Normandy beaches (yes my english grandfather was there too!) - first major area captured > 'Cherbourg Peninsula'
(as shown on the Jєω movie "Band of Bruvvers" 'BOB' (a masonic title/ symbology for the mislead bruvverhood)
BOB is of course pet name for 'Robert'(Bruce/de Brus)
Robert I de Brus (died 1142) was an early 12th century Norman baron and knight, the first of the Bruce dynasty of Scotland. A monastic patron, he is remembered as the founder of Gisborough Priory in Yorkshire in 1119.[1]
Family
Nothing is known of Robert's father, except that he was a landowner in Normandy.[2] An early modern historiographical tradition that he was the son of a Norman noble named Robert de Brus who came to England with William the Conqueror has been found to be without basis.[2]
Modern historians contend that Robert came from Brix, Manche , near Cherbourg in the Cotentin Peninsula , and came to Britain after King Henry I of England 's conquest of Normandy (i.e: at the same time as Alan fitzFlaad , ancestor of the Stewart Royal Family). David fitz Malcolm (after 1124 King David I of Scotland ), was present in France with King Henry and was granted much of the Cotentin Peninsula. It is suggested that Robert de Brus's presences and absences at Henry's court coincide with David's.
Scotland
Whatever his immediate ancestry, what is known beyond doubt is that he went to Scotland, where the new King, David , made Robert Lord of Annandale in 1124,[3]. although there is scant evidence that this Robert took up residence on his Scottish estates.
Battle of The Standard
After the death of King Henry, David turned against Henry's successor, King Stephen . As a result Robert de Brus and King David parted company, with Robert bitterly renouncing his homage to David before taking the English side at the Battle of the Standard .
Now yank strategic bomber commander boasted his bomber squadrons on D-Day could put the bombs into an "Apple Barrel"
("English Grand Lodge Formed in Apple Tree Tavern, Covent Garden, London")
" Operation Market Garden" failure OMG (Oh My God?) - Masonic symbolic for covent garden= london's fruit/flower/veg market
- yet they ALL missed the Guns guarding the beaches by bombing too far inland!
This led to wholesale slaughter on Beaches of Normandy, in the 10's thousands, until the brave and lucky left - were able to silence the German opposition!
In the miniseries 'BOB' they are shown taking out the 88's (= HH) etc that the bombers deliberately missed during the night!
101first Airborne is obviously NWO/george Orwell "Room 101" based = "your worst nightmare" which is retold/shown by actors during miniseries. (they do the piss taking 'Currahee' interviews in a room on their own)
Airbourne - Currahee (ee=55=masonic/Jєω "Windows") (EEEEasy company)
Currahee Mountain is a mountain located in Stephens County, Georgia near Toccoa. The name appears to be derived from the Cherokee word ᏊᏩᎯ (quu-wa-hi) meaning "stand alone.
The 'occult' opposite >>> B.O.B with them shouting "I stand Alone"
Lots of nasty stuff goes on in Georgia esp the prep army camps for christian killing fields at that latitude-Longitude (Masonic Georgia black stones etc)
Eph 22 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
On this day in 1944, now known as D-Day, future President Dwight D. Eisenhower, then supreme commander of Allied Expeditionary Forces in World War II gives the go-ahead for a massive invasion of Europe called Operation Overlord.
He was of course a Jєω - overseeing the Christian slaughter on the flanders Killing fields!
At the end of the B.O.B (check out all the Jєω producers) miniseries they Quote words of Jєω Shakespeare (not Bible) too!
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There is so much wrong with your thinking.
The devil tells people that Tradition says "Women belong in the kitchen," with all the negative connotations.
So what happens?
Women leave the home to pursue careers outside and leave their family neglected. Yes, neglected, at best feeding them highly processed foods and not nurturing the home; at worse feeding them fast food and dropping their children off at daycare to be raised by strangers.
Motherhood is perhaps the greatest job out there. "Job" isn't even the correct term. Ever see a loving mother who makes a nurturing home for her family? Perhaps you grew up in one? It's a beautiful and holy thing she has created. Ever see a home without a fulltime mother? It's ugly. They treat their home like a motel room only crashing there at night.
Did Mother Mary work outside the home? Did she go off every day to work in a sandal shop or restaurant? Did she leave Jesus to fend for himself while she chased a few more dollars? No, she cared for her family.
Motherhood is the highest and noblest profession out there.
:applause:
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:ready-to-eat:
Time for me to make something using fresh peaches.
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Being in the kitchen means I choose the menu I can lick out the dessert bowl :ready-to-eat:
If I'm quick enough I can go out for a walk play in the garden and I always talk to a girlfriend while doing dishes.
So blessed to have food, clothing, shelter, healthy family, and access to the true faith.
Thank The Lord thank the misses last one done does the dishes!
:cheers:
Your friendly canadian :farmer:
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Just finished a batch of pickled watermelon rind - Asian Style! Bruce, leave me to my kitchen!