Author Topic: How can God send wicked souls to Hell forever  (Read 1191 times)

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Offline unknown

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How can God send wicked souls to Hell forever
« on: May 02, 2019, 04:47:20 AM »
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  • From: Against All Heresies

    Jerome: If you want my immediate response, see below his question. And yes, I condemn God, Hell and also prove why all souls will be saved in the end. In short: The (blasphemy deleted) of God (i.e., Hell) was only a test to see who would follow their conscience (of not just being God's slave by allowing him to do anything (such as eternal evil)), and who would not (i.e., those who would follow their conscience (and the golden rule of wishing good upon others as upon themselves) which says that they do not want their own children to be damned and hence, they do not want eternal damnation to exist or that anyone should be damned.)


    Quote
    St. Bridget's Revelations ch 41

    Eli: Have you read Book 3 Chapter 26? I'm going to paste half of the chapter here in the email for the sake of convenience and highlight what I personally think are kind of problematic for EENS. It's confusing because in the same chapter our Lord affirms EENS multiple times. I would really like to know what your take on this is.

    Bold: borderline heretical
    Underlined: EENS

    However, now I can complain that I am little praised and unknown to many people, because everyone is following his own will but few follow mine. Be you steadfast and humble, and do not exalt yourself in your mind if I show you other people's trials, and do not betray their names unless you are instructed to do so. Their trials are not shown to you to shame them but in order that they may be converted and come to know God's justice and mercy. Nor should you shun them as condemned, for even if I should say today that a certain person is wicked, should he call on me tomorrow with contrition and a will to improve, I am prepared to forgive him. And that person whom I yesterday called wicked, today, due to his contrition, I declare him to be so dear a friend of mine that if his contrition remains steadfast, I forgive him not only his sin but even remit the punishment of sin.

    You might understand this with a metaphor. It is as though there were two drops of quicksilver and both were heading toward each other in haste. If nothing but a single atom remained to keep them from joining, still God would be powerful enough to prevent them from coming together. Likewise, if any sinner were so rooted in diabolical deeds that he was standing at the very brink of destruction, he could still obtain forgiveness and mercy, if he called upon God with contrition and a will to improve. Now, given that I am so merciful, you might ask why I am not merciful toward pagans and Jews, some of whom, if they were instructed in the true faith, would be ready to lay down their lives for God. My response is that I have mercy on everyone, on pagans as well as Jews, nor is any creature beyond my mercy.

    Edit: This I interpret as lesser punishment, not salvation.

    With leniency and mercy I will judge both those people who, learning that their faith is not the true one, fervently long for the true faith, as well as those people who believe the faith they profess to be the best one, because no other faith has ever been preached to them, and who wholeheartedly do what they can.

    Edit: This also, lesser punishment, not necessarily salvation.

    You see, there is a double judgment, namely the one for those to be condemned and the one for those to be saved. The sentence of condemnation for Christians will have no mercy in it. To them will belong eternal punishment and shadows and a will hardened against God. The sentence for those Christians to be saved will be the vision of God and glorification in God and goodwill toward God.

    Excluded from these rewards are pagans and Jews as well as bad and false Christians. Although they did not have the right faith, they did have conscience as their judge and believed that the one whom they worshipped and offended was God.
    But the ones whose intention and actions were and are for justice and against sin will, along with the less bad Christians, share a punishment of mercy in the midst of sufferings due to their love of justice and their hatred of sin. However, they will not have consolation in the service of glory and of the vision of God. They will not behold him due to their lack of baptism, because some temporal circumstance or some hidden decision of God made them draw back from profitably seeking and obtaining salvation. If there was nothing that held them back from seeking the true God and being baptized, neither fear nor the effort required nor loss of goods or privileges, but only some impediment that overcame their human weakness, then I, who saw Cornelius and the centurion while they were still not baptized, know how to give them a higher and more perfect reward in accordance with their faith.

    Edit: this could be interpreted as God will supernaturally supply baptism.

    One thing is the ignorance of sinners, another that of those who are pious but impeded. Likewise, too, one thing is the baptism of water, another that of blood, another that of wholehearted desire.

    Edit: This is where my main gripe with the chapter lies.

    God, who knows the hearts of all people, knows how to take all of these circumstances into account. I am begotten without beginning, begotten eternally from the beginning. I was born in time at the end of times. From the commencement I have known how to give individual persons the rewards they deserve and I give to each according as he deserves. Not the least little good done for the glory of God will go without its reward. This is why you should give many thanks to God that you were born of Christian parents in the age of salvation, for many people have longed to obtain and see that which is offered to Christians and yet have not obtained it.”

    By the way, eternal hell is evil, and since Vatican II teaches that almost all are saved, I have also started to be inclined to this position. I can honestly believe that Vatican II is not an apostasy, but enlightenment. Do you not see how utterly evil and stupid it is to call "salvation" apostasy, heresy and evil? There are bad fruits of Vatican II, but that almost all people shall be saved are not one of them. So the pre-Vatican II Church which condemns almost the whole world (if one must be Catholic in the strict sense) was good, but Vatican II which opened up salvation for the entire human race, was evil? So good is evil and evil good?

    There can be nothing more evil then Hell, and to think that a "good" God created it, or sends his own children there to suffer always, is itself a mortal sin and a heresy. - This just made me think of Gnostics and their belief that God is evil. Not that I agree that he was evil for the arguments they used, but rather, it is easy to see that God is evil because of the Hell he allows to exist. Had the Gnostics condemned God because he condemns souls (because he do evil and breaks the golden law -- i.e., do good unto others as you wan't others to do good unto you) they would have won the day. I mean, how can an honest soul argue that there is justice with eternal torments? (Blasphemy against God's infinite Justice deleted)

    *Several more paragraphs of overt blasphemy deleted*

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil.
    « Reply #1 on: May 02, 2019, 06:00:05 AM »
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  • Very screwed up OP. :facepalm:

    I will just say that hell lasts forever because God, being eternal, lasts forever.

    Therefore, if hell did not last forever, then sinners would have beaten God, sinners would be getting away with offending God if they were to ever be let out.
    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all, under obedience to God, and only then, under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil.
    « Reply #2 on: May 02, 2019, 07:03:20 AM »
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  • The closer one gets to God, the more they come to the reality that all we have of our own is our sins. St. Francis on his death bed agonized that he was going to hell. Today Catholics think that people are inherently good and salvation is easy for all "nice" people in all religions. They actually think that they are worthy of being in Heaven with God and that if God does not accept them, He is evil.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil.
    « Reply #3 on: May 02, 2019, 07:08:43 AM »
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  • Quote
    I really cannot come to terms with why God created eternal Hell. Would it not have been enough to have heaven for those who obeyed God and a certain amount of punishment for those who died with unforgiven sins, those who rejected him and then oblivion after a just time, gone forever?
     
     An eternity of fire in Hell seems out of character for a God of Love. We live a limited time on Earth but there is an eternity based on that limited time.
     
     This Sunday morning we had again another reading that would scare the daylight out of Catholics who read it or heard it. The endless warnings of Hell if you do this, do that or the other seems to be the basis for our Catholic faith. Fear of God rather than love of God seems to be the core of traditional Catholicisim. How can one love God under threat of Hell? I just do not understand.
     
     How can one base their Catholicism on love for God and his mother Mary when one is terrified at the thought of eternal fire if you are prone to sin as all human beings are?
     
     Vatican II I think tried to change the faith from one of fear to one of a loving Jesus and Mary. This didn't work as it ended up hiding sin and luring billions into a false sense of love and infinite mercy. That said, I must accept this situation, even if I do not understand it.


    Try not to over think this
     1. God made the soul to be eternal, therefore the reward or punishment must be eternal.
     2. This is not "out of character" for God when you consider how many graces He gives to help you get to Heaven
     3. Many misunderstand the "fear of God".  It means fear of offending God.
     4. Lastly the fear of hell translates to fear of the punishment when it should be fear of offending; but that works too if that's what it takes to deter us.  You've heard the expression "scare the hell out of them"  it works.
     
     We should be glad we are informed of the consequences of our actions that way we can exercise our free will to our best benefit. Never forget free will.


    Snip from a sermon on hell from Fr. Wathen:
     ...Intrinsic in the idea of hell is it's everlastingness. One cannot conceive of a punishment sufficient for those who have defied God all their lives, till their deaths, and who have simply refused to accept God in His sovereignty and refused to do His will. It is altogether contrary, repugnant to reason that there would not be a punishment. 
    This punishment has to last forever simply because these individuals, if hell did not last forever, would have beaten God. They would have defied Him and gotten away with it.  
     
     So of course, those who go to hell, don't go for temporary chastisement, they go there because 
    they hate God and they will never do other. That is why hell lasts always, just as the devils do not hate God less because they have been there who knows how many eons. If anything, we would say that the devils hate God more after all that they have suffered because their suffering does not determine whether they will serve Him or despise Him, their own wills determine this. 
     
     Our Lord spoke of hell 15 times in the Scriptures and the things that He said make it clear to us that hell is a state and a place of everlasting burning. He mentioned hell more often, more times then He mentioned the doctrine of the Blessed Eucharist. Among the things He said - "Depart from me ye cursed ones, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels."...
     
     "...where the worm dieth not, neither is the fire quenched". And therein does Christ tell us of the two terrible torments of hell. "The worm that dieth not" refers to the pain of loss and the "fire that is not quenched" refers to the pain of sense. Because people are inclined to give too much intention to the pain of sense, we want you to consider the pain of loss, which is the essential punishment of hell. 
     
     The pain of loss is simply the everlasting recognition that one is in hell because one chose to be there. On earth he made his alibis and he pointed fingers at others and he imagined that he is going to blame his parents or blame society or blame hard luck, but in hell, no one blames anyone but himself because in hell, everyone knows why he is there, because he knows that he has rejected God -  and in turn, God has, despite His love, rejected him. And the pain of loss is that terrible torment of the recognition of what one might have done but did not. That one might be enjoying the beatitude of heaven, but will never.....


     

    The punishment of a crime is proportionate to the heinousness of the offense. That is justice. 
     A crime against an infinitely Good Being is infinitely heinous, and requiring of eternal punishment. 


    I believe your line of thinking is the product of modernism.
     Modernism has twisted Christianity.  Christianity has started to reflect modern norms rather than shape them.  By Modernist morality, everything is acceptable, no one is responsible for any wrong doing.  Many modern Christians know of God's love, but it isn't politically correct by the secular world to even mention God's justice.  In fact, I believe that this rejection of the existence of Hell is the Devil's doing.  After all, if everyone is going to Heaven, why not live it up? 
     
     Some Christians have even openly adopted the concept of Universal Salvation.  They believe God loves people so much that EVERYONE is going to Heaven.
     
     But the reality is God is just and generous.  He gives us numerous chances at repentance and salvation.
     
     Salvation is an economy of sorts:  follow God's laws and you get to exist with Him in Heaven for eternity.  Violate his laws, and the consequence is you are cut off from God's love forever.


     It doesn't matter what we "think", it matters what the Church teaches.
     Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:
     “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives


     
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil.
    « Reply #4 on: May 02, 2019, 07:09:50 AM »
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  • THE TEACHINGS OF THE FATHERS, DOCTORS AND SAINTS OF THE CHURCH UPON THE FINAL DESTINY OF MOST PEOPLE.

     

    1) Notwithstanding assurances that God did not create any man for Hell, and that He wishes all men to be saved, it remains equally true that few will be saved; that only few will go to Heaven; and that the greater part of mankind will be lost forever. (St. John Neuman)

     

    2) It is certain that few are saved. (St. Augustine)

     

    3) The majority of men shall not see God. (St. Julian the Martyr)

     

    4) Those who are saved are in the minority. ( St. Thomas Aquinas)

     

    5) The greater part of men choose to be damned rather than to love almighty God. (St. Alphonsus Liguori)

     

    6) So vast a number of miserable souls perish, and so comparatively few are saved. (St. Philip Neri)

     

    7) Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)

     

    8) Death bed conversions/repentance-there are hardly any:   Out of 100,000 sinners who continue in sin until death, scarcely ONE will be saved. (St. Jerome)

     

    9) The MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS GO TO HELL:

     

    a) The greater number of Christians today are damned. The destiny of those dying on one day is that very few  -  not as many as ten  -   went straight to Heaven; many remained in Purgatory; and THOSE CAST INTO HELL WERE NUMEROUS AS SNOWFLAKES in mid-winter. (Bl. Anna Maria Taigi)

     

    b) There are many who arrive at the faith, but few who are led to the heavenly kingdom. Behold how many are gathered here for today's Feast-Day; we fill the church from wall to wall. Yet who knows how FEW they are who shall be numbered in that chosen company of the elect? (Pope St. Gregory the Great)

     

    c) The Ark, which in the midst of the Flood was the symbol of the Church, was wide below and narrow above, .... It was wide where the animals were, narrow where men lived; for the Holy Church is indeed wide in number of those who are carnal minded, narrow in the number of those who are spiritual.

    ( Pope St. Gregory the Great)

     

    d) Shall we all be saved? Shall we go to heaven? Alas, my children we do not know at all! But I tremble when I see so many souls lost these days. See, they fall into Hell as leaves fall from the trees at the approach of winter. (St. John Vianney)

     

    10) MOST PRIESTS GO TO HELL:

     

    St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople, Doctor of the Church:

     

    I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think., I do not think that many priests are saved but that those that perish are far more numerous. The reason is that the office requires a great soul. For there are many things to make a priest swerve from rectitude, and he requires great vigilance on every side. Do you not perceive how many qualities a bishop must have that he may be apt to teach; patient towards the wicked, firm and faithful in teaching the Word? How many difficulties herein.

     

    Moreover the loss of others is imputed to him. I need say no more. If but one dies without baptism, does it not entirely endanger his salvation? For the loss of one soul is so great an evil as no man can understand. If the salvation of one soul is of such importance that, for its sake, the Son of God became man and suffered so much, think of the penalty the loss of one soul will entail. (Third Homily, Acts of the Apostles)

     

    b) Many religious go to Hell because they do not keep their vows. (St. Vincent Ferrer)

     

     

    CATHOLICS NOT ASPIRING AND NOT LIVING AS SAINTS WILL GO TO HELL:

     

    a) They who are enlightened to walk in the way of perfection, and through lukewarmness wish to tread the ordinary paths, shall be abandoned. (Bl. Angela of Foligno)

     

    b) They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved. (Pope St. Gregory the Great)

     

    c) St. Teresa.... had she not risen from the state of lukewarmness in which she lived, she would in the end have lost the grace of God and been damned. ( St. Alphonsus Liguori)

     

    14) How many inhabitants of this city may perhaps be saved? What I am about to say is very terrible, yet I will not conceal it from you. Out of this thickly populated city with it's thousands of inhabitants, not 100 people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that! ( St. John Chrysostom - the city was Antioch and its inhabitants were known to be in pursuit of comfort and the good things of life.)

     

    15) A multitude of souls fall into the depths of Hell. (St. Anthony Mary Claret - It has been revealed that on the day of the death of St. Bernard there also died 79,997 other people, and of this total of 80,000 who died, only St. Bernard and two other monks were saved.)

     

    16) In the great deluge in the days of Noah, all mankind perished, eight persons alone being saved in the Ark. In our days a deluge, not of water, but sins, continually inundates the earth, and out of this deluge very few escape. Scarcely anyone is saved. ( St. Alphonsus Liguori)

     

    17) Yes indeed, many will be damned; few will be saved. (St. Benedict Joseph Labro)

     

    18) If you only knew the women who will go to Hell because they did not bring into the world the children they should have given to it. ( St. John Vianney)

     

    19) He who goes to Hell, goes of his own accord. Everyone who is damned, is damned because he wills his own damnation. (St. Alphonsus Liguori)

     

    20) THOSE WHO HAVE HEARD NOTHING ABOUT THE FAITH CAN ALSO GO TO HELL:

     

    a) When such unbelievers are damned, it is on account of other sins, which cannot be taken away without the faith, but not because of their sin of unbelief. (St. Thomas Aquinas)

     

    b) Everyone that is of truth hears my voice. (St. John 18:37)

     

    c) It may be true that there are, in the remotest parts of the world, some people who have not yet seen the light of the Savior. Certainly, God's manifold and ineffable goodness has always provided, and still provides, for all mankind in such a way that not one of the reprobates can find an excuse as though he had been refused the light of truth. ( St. Prosper of Aquitaine)

     

    d) No one is lost without knowing it, and no one is deceived without wanting to be. (St. Teresa of Avila)

     

    21) OUTSIDE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THERE IS NO SALVATION:

     

    a) No matter how praiseworthy his actions might seem, he who is separated from the Catholic Church will never enjoy eternal life (Pope Gregory XVI)

     

    b) O ye atheists who do not believe in God, what fools you are ! But if you do believe there is a God, you must also believe there is a true religion. And if not the Roman Catholic, which is it? Perhaps that of the pagans who admit many gods, thus they deny them all. Perhaps that of Mohammed, a religion invented by an impostor and framed for beasts rather than humans. Perhaps that of the Jews who had the true faith at one time but, because they rejected their redeemer, lost their faith, their country, their everything. Perhaps that of the heretics who, separating themselves from our Church, have confused all revealed dogmas in such a way that the belief of one heretic is contrary to that of his neighbor. O holy faith! Enlighten all those poor blind creatures who run to eternal perdition! (St. Alphonsus Liguori)

     
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil.
    « Reply #5 on: May 02, 2019, 07:11:11 AM »
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  • It is ironic how you call me "screwed up" because I advocate salvation for my brethren and sisters. What is screwed up with that? No, rather, what is screwed up is to defend an evil God who condemns his own children.
    God is not evil, men are evil. Every man is born into this world bent on evil due to being born with original sin. This is elementary Catholic doctrine.

    As Fr. Wathen puts it:

    [You need to] look at things as they are and stop all this liberal star gazing and wishful thinking and return to hard reality. Last week in what we style a sermon you probably perceive that I was laboring and I felt ill at ease because I could not find the words to say what I had thinking for a number of weeks and have a little more success said in other places. The bishops are going to have to recognize that the fundamental premise and the farfetched hope and the basic inspiration of the second Vatican council were altogether false and insubstantial.

    They are going to have to recognize that liberalism is intrinsically false and will not work, because beneath liberalism, the philosophical basis of liberalism, is what we call naturalism. Naturalism proclaims, among other heresies, that there is no such thing as original sin, that man is basically good, that he means well and if you let him grow up, he’ll grow up good, he’ll grow up moral, he’ll grow up to be a good fellow.

    But Catholic doctrine says that man is not basically good, that he comes into the world bent on evil and if you leave him to himself, he’ll become a savage, he’ll become amoral. He’ll not only do most wicked things but he will try to justify them.

    We have to recognize that this is the error of liberalism, that it wants to treat all men as if they really are not bad and that the only reason they are bad is that they are misguided, that they’re victims of circumstances and of their environment.

    That they are bad because their mother, or their father, or their parents mistreated them, or because they were deprived of something, or because they didn’t get a chance to go to school with white folk  and all that kind of thing. And we say that no, a man is bad because of original sin and he doesn’t mind being bad, he chooses to be bad. In other words, he cannot blame his wickedness on Adam only, because with every day that passes, he confirms the evil within himself.

    At the second Vatican council they tried to say that "men are bad, that men are anti-Catholic because the Church has not treated men correctly, and if the Church approached them kindly, and with understanding and you might say with intelligence, modern public relations - they would have come into the Church instead of opposing it" and being against us in every way and distrusting it and even engaging in efforts to destroy it."

    And the bishops are going to have to recognize that original sin is operative in every soul and it always will be, and that all men have to be disciplined, they have to acknowledge that by themselves they will do wicked things. And Almighty God in the Church established an authority over them and they may not like to be told what to do but they must be told what to do and they must be warned of the consequences of not doing it, and the consequences ultimately are hell fire...
    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all, under obedience to God, and only then, under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil.
    « Reply #6 on: May 02, 2019, 07:12:30 AM »
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  • Sounds like pseudo Divine mercy of Vatican II.  Anything to maintain their mortal sins. 
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil.
    « Reply #7 on: May 02, 2019, 07:24:54 AM »
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  • Barron promotes false teaching that “hell”. Is empty. Then promoted to bishop. 
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil.
    « Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 07:28:04 AM »
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  • Bishop Barron tells ‘gay’ interviewer: I wouldn’t press to reverse ‘gay marriage’ decision
    Lianne Laurence Follow Lianne

     CatholicObergefellRobert BarronSame-Sex 'Marriage'
    HOLLYWOOD WEST, California, February 2, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) — Bishop Robert Barron said in an interview Monday he wouldn’t “press” to reverse the legalization of homosexual “marriage” in the United States.
    And after criticism, he reiterated the point in a Facebook post Wednesday.
    An auxiliary bishop for Los Angeles, founder of Word on Fire Ministries and hugely popular social media personality, Barron made his remarks on The Rubin Report. The show is hosted by political commentator Dave Rubin, himself in a homosexual “marriage”.  
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Matto

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    Re: Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil.
    « Reply #9 on: May 02, 2019, 07:33:45 AM »
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  • Interesting OP. I can relate. I find the eternity of Hell to be so frightening that I can understand how some might come to unbelief or to hatred of God because of this teaching (especially combined with a pessimistic view on the number of those who are saved). Forever and ever and ever. I do find it to be the most difficult teaching of all the teachings of the Church when I think about it.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil.
    « Reply #10 on: May 02, 2019, 08:05:02 AM »
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  • That day of wrath,
    that dreadful day,
    shall heaven and earth in ashes lay,
    as David and the Sybil say.

    What horror must invade the mind
    when the approaching Judge shall find
    and sift the deeds of all mankind!

    The mighty trumpet's wondrous tone
    shall rend each tomb's sepulchral stone
    and summon all before the Throne.

    Now death and nature with surprise
    behold the trembling sinners rise
    to meet the Judge's searching eyes.

    Then shall with universal dread
    the Book of Consciences be read
    to judge the lives of all the dead.

    For now before the Judge severe
    all hidden things must plain appear;
    no crime can pass unpunished here.

    O what shall I, so guilty plead?
    and who for me will intercede?
    when even Saints shall comfort need?

    O King of dreadful majesty!
    grace and mercy You grant free;
    as Fount of Kindness, save me!

    Recall, dear Jesus, for my sake
    you did our suffering nature take
    then do not now my soul forsake!

    In weariness You sought for me,
    and suffering upon the tree!
    let not in vain such labor be.

    O Judge of justice, hear, I pray,
    for pity take my sins away
    before the dreadful reckoning day.

    You gracious face, O Lord, I seek;
    deep shame and grief are on my cheek;
    in sighs and tears my sorrows speak.

    You Who did Mary's guilt unbind,
    and mercy for the robber find,
    have filled with hope my anxious mind.

    How worthless are my prayers I know,
    yet, Lord forbid that I should go
    into the fires of endless woe.

    Divorced from the accursed band,
    o make me with Your sheep to stand,
    as child of grace, at Your right Hand.

    When the doomed can no more flee
    from the fires of misery
    with the chosen call me.

    Before You, humbled, Lord, I lie,
    my heart like ashes, crushed and dry,
    assist me when I die.

    Full of tears and full of dread
    is that day that wakes the dead,
    calling all, with solemn blast
    to be judged for all their past. Amen.

    Lord, have mercy, Jesus blest,
    grant them all Your Light and Rest. Amen.
    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all, under obedience to God, and only then, under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: How can God send wicked souls to Hell forever
    « Reply #11 on: May 02, 2019, 08:11:54 AM »
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  • OP, here is a good entry for your blog. Snipped from the book, So High The Price.

    THE OPTIMISTS

    The optimists object: “Can it be possible that God punishes a momentary sinful pleasure with an eternity of pain?”

    It is not only possible, but it is right and just. The offense given by the sinner to God when he transgresses His holy laws involves infinite malice, since it is an offense to infinite Majesty. Therefore, it deserves an infinite punishment. But since man, being finite, is incapable of undergoing punishment that is infinite in intensity, God punishes him with a chastisement infinite in duration. In acting thus, God acts justly.

    Consider my son, that if you go to hell, you will never leave it. There, every pain is suffered and suffered forever.

    Even when a hundred years have gone by since you went to hell, or a thousand, hell will be just beginning. After a hundred thousand, a hundred million years, after millions of centuries, hell will still be just beginning.

    If an angel were to bring news to the damned that God had decided to free them from hell when as many million centuries had passed as there are drops of water in the ocean, leaves on the trees and grains of sand on the earth - if the damned were to hear that, they would be immensely consoled. "True", they would say, "many centuries must yet pass, but some day the time of our freedom will come." In reality, however, such vast stretches of time and more than we can possibly imagine, shall pass and find hell still only beginning.

    Every soul damned in hell would be willing to make this agreement with God: "Lord, increase my suffering as much as You will; make me stay here in this place of torment as long as You will, but give me hope that someday You will free me."
    But no, this hope, this end to suffering, shall never be.

    At least if the poor soul of the damned could deceive himself and cheer himself up by thinking, "Who knows? Perhaps some day God will have pity on me and lift me out of this burning inferno."

    No, not even that way is open to him, for he will forever see written before him the sentence of his wretched eternity.

    "So", he will say, "all this terrible pain, this fire, will never end for me?"
    "No," will come the answer. "No, never."

    "Will they last forever?"
    "Forever - for all eternity."

    Oh, eternity! O bottomless pit! O sea without a shore! O endless tunnel! Who does not tremble at the thought of you!
    Accursed sin! What tremendous agony you prepare for those who commit you!
    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all, under obedience to God, and only then, under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: How can God send wicked souls to Hell forever
    « Reply #12 on: May 02, 2019, 08:25:21 AM »
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  • Quote
    And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. [12] And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? But he was silent. [13] Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [14] For many are called, but few are chosen.
    Jesus says yes 
    OP says no
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline ihsv

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    Re: How can God send wicked souls to Hell forever
    « Reply #13 on: May 02, 2019, 09:16:01 AM »
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  • The site the OP's drivel comes from is called "Against All Heresies and Errors."  Quite frankly, if hell isn't eternal, then all of "Jerome's" writings and the supposed "purpose" of his website is a colossal waste of time.  

    If all souls are saved, then truth doesn't matter.  Why expend the energy to make a website "Against All Heresies...", when holders of "heresies" are going to be saved anyway?

    "Jerome" is deathly afraid of hell, because his conscience tells him in no uncertain terms that he is on his way there himself.  But rather than amend his life and his beliefs to humbly submit to the Will and the Revelations of God, he fancies himself superior to God, sitting in judgement over and vetoing the Divine Justice, determining for himself good and evil.  

    He has created an idol, a god after "his own image and likeness."

    The saddest part of all of this is he has the means to infect others with his blasphemy and heresy, giving false hope to the world.  



    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline ihsv

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    Re: How can God send wicked souls to Hell forever
    « Reply #14 on: May 02, 2019, 09:25:40 AM »
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  • Ok, it all makes sense now.  I took a look at the OP's site, and he has an inordinate preoccupation with topics touching on the sixth and ninth commandment.  

    St. Thomas teaches that lust is the vice most opposed to the virtue of Faith.  This man struggles with impurity, but with his newfound doctrine of "universal salvation", he needn't worry about it anymore.  

    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

     

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