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Author Topic: Why Jews Push gαy Marriage  (Read 4064 times)

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Offline claudel

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Why Jews Push gαy Marriage
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2013, 12:57:16 AM »
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  • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant
    It never occurred to me that he might be a fake monk. I guess I am pretty naive.


    No, just not fully informed—the way I am and most of the rest of the human race is about almost everything except for the few topics we know a thing or two about.

    You are quite welcome, of course.

    Someone hereabouts, however, seems to be a pretty spiteful admirer of faux-bro Nathanael. He or she has been thumbs-downing every truthful comment about him.

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    « Reply #31 on: April 05, 2013, 01:20:54 AM »
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  • I've never heard him claim to be "Father" Nathanael' only a brother.

    He was indeed a brother though at Dormition Skete (http://www.dormitionskete.org), an Orthodox monastery at one time. He lives on his own now, but that typically does not remove 'brother'. It is not holy orders, brothers are unordained, but typically consecrated laity living in a religious community. I don't know how the Orthodox use the term (correction: see below)

    He is hardly laying claim to Holy Orders, or really anything other than that he at one time lived in a religious community. Not exactly a lofty claim.

    Apparently living alone is one of three recognized forms of monastic life by the orthodox (besides living in a skete) and they are still called brothers when they do so: http://www.dormitionskete.org/ds-history.shtml

    Note also his attire which some have called a costume or mockery, matches the habit depicted on Dormition's website: http://www.dormitionskete.org/ds-history.shtml


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Why Jews Push gαy Marriage
    « Reply #32 on: April 05, 2013, 01:51:04 AM »
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  • His conspicuous use of a pectoral cross can be disturbing, especially when
    he says things that are not becoming of anyone who is consecrated.  I had
    heard it denounced from the pulpit, that the laity should not be wearing
    large pectoral crosses visible on the outside of their garments, and that
    you can wear it inside, or under your shirt if you must.  

    For someone with corrosive skin, that would mean that you would have to
    either have a stainless steel or precious metal cross, such as gold or
    platinum or rhodium (at least plated), because silver tarnishes very quickly
    with such a condition.  Alternatively, such a one could just let the silver go
    ahead and tarnish, to give the crucifix a dark bronzed hue like the crucifix
    that Roger Cardinal Mahony put up in Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral.

    Alternatively, all wood or plastic or some kind of synthetic could be used
    that doesn't tarnish like silver or semi-precious or base metals do.


    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    Why Jews Push gαy Marriage
    « Reply #33 on: April 05, 2013, 01:58:57 AM »
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  • If you check the link I posted above, it does appear these monastics at the skete wear large crosses.

    I cannot be sure that picture is a/the brother or a monastic with orders though.

    One more thing, it seems he was at Dormition Skete and left under less than favorable circuмstances. He was not ecclesially processed, so he is probably still a brother, but he cannot live there since, apparently, they called the police on him.

    It's a weird and confusing story. I doubt anyone is going to think it was anything other than his fault, but apparently he was accused of stealing a cassock after wearing it for 1.5 years and the heiromonk called the police over it:

     http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4941&start=168

    The heiromonk's correspondence is at that link as well as nathanael's commentary, it seems oddly apologetic and handwringing if it was such a cut and dry theft...go figure.

    The guy clearly lives with a lot of complications. I read another thing doing some searching that some guy was threatening him and the court ruled in br. Nathanael's favor, so, there's that...he isn't always crazy apparently

    Offline rowsofvoices9

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    Why Jews Push gαy Marriage
    « Reply #34 on: April 05, 2013, 10:54:15 AM »
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  • http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/305022/Are%20Holy%20Apostles%20Convent%20&%20Do

    Quote
    Yes, they are fanatical schismatics centred around the leadership of the monk Gregory Abu-Assaly, who styles himself 'Archbishop' Gregory (though perhaps he is already Metropolitan or even Patriarch by now, it's hard to tell.  )

    The story of an Antiochian boy, who became a novice at Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston, who left there (charging Fr Panteleimon with abuse) to form his own Skete in Colorado under the Russian Church Abroad, who left them to go into a Greek Old Calendarist Group, who left them to go under the so-called Russian Autonomous Church under the infamous Valentine of Suzdal, who then left Valentine claiming he was immoral and set up his own Church, is a long one.

    All this, however, does not invalidate the admirable publishing efforts the poor nuns who are the thumb of Fr Gregory. Their Hagiographical and Scriptural works are very helpful, including their Orthodox New Testament. (I've often found nuns in these schismatic groups to be much more level-headed and helpful than the men who are leading them.)

    The problem with the ONT is that no one in the leadership of dreaded "World Orthodoxy" will ever endorse it because of where it comes from. But it is still very useful.

    Fr David Straut


    http://www.gocamerica.org/history_canonicity_statement_archbishop_gregory.shtml

    Quote
    Statement of Canonicity of
    Archbishop Gregory of Denver and Colorado

    Archbishop Gregory is a hierarch of the true Russian Orthodox Church in the direct line of the great hierarchs of the Russian Church Abroad. When the Ecuмenical Movement officially started in 1965, it was St. Metropolitan Philaret and his Synod who first objected and then broke communion with the Greek Ecuмenical Patriarchate and all those in communion with it. The Greek Old Calendarists also were of the same mind and were in communion with the Russian Church Abroad (ROCA) up until ROCA’s union with the ecuмenist, Met. Cyprian of Fili in 1994. After the fall of Russian communism, in 1991 the ROCA ordained bishops for Russia. Those Russian bishops consecrated Archbishop Gregory in Russia. He is also a missionary bishop, in that he finds himself not only responsible for the churches in America, but also has churches in Bulgaria, Italy, Brazil, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Uganda. What follows below is a short chronology of the events to show the canonicity of Archbishop Gregory.

    In 1986, Metropolitan Vitaly became the First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad succeeding the saintly Metropolitan Philaret.

    On February 10, 1991, in the church of St. Job the Much - Suffering in Brussels, Archimandrite Valentine was consecrated Bishop of Suzdal and Vladimir (Russia). The consecration was carried out by four bishops of the Russian Church Abroad (ROCA), among them Bishop Gregory Grabbe, who had for many years assisted the great first-hierarchs of the ROCA. More bishops were later consecrated for Russia.

    In the year 1994, Metropolitan Vitaly, with his Synod, announced that they were accepting the ecclesiology and theology of the deposed heretical ecuмenist, Met. Cyprian of Fili and therefore entered into communion with him. When this apostasy occurred, the Old Calendar Church of Greece broke communion with the Russian Church Abroad and about this time the bishops in Russia also severed communion with Metropolitan Vitaly. Archimandrite Gregory of Dormition Skete in Colorado also left the ROCA and joined the Old Calendar Church of Greece.

    From 1994 to 2001, the bishops in Russia were united under the leadership of Archbishop Valentine. When their church was organized as the Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church (ROAC), they decreed that its head should hold the rank of Metropolitan.

    On November 19/December 2, 2001, Archimandrite Gregory of Dormition Skete, in Colorado, having been released from the Old Calendar Church of Greece, was elected unanimously by the ROAC Synod of Bishops, and was ordained Bishop of Denver by Metropolitan Valentine, Archbishop Theodore, and Catacomb Bishop Anthony of Yaransk in the St. Constantine Cathedral, Suzdal, Russia. In 2002, Bishop Gregory was made ruling bishop of Denver and Colorado. In 2004, he was elevated to the rank of Archbishop because of his great missionary work.

    In 2004, Metropolitan Valentine, (after recuperating from a pentuple heart bypass surgery in Colorado), attempted to compel Archbishop Gregory to accept several canonical infractions - (1) that the Metropolitan has universal and supreme jurisdiction in all dioceses and he is above the canons; (2) the wrong opinion that some of the mysteries of heretics and schismatics are valid; (3) that Baptism in a canonical form is unnecessary for the Orthodox Church, on which basis Met. Valentine received 180 unbaptized Haitians into the ROAC; and (4) the uncanonical seizure by Met. Valentine of several of Archbishop Gregory’s clergy and monastics without Archbishop Gregory’s consent.

    When Archbishop Gregory sent a petition to the Synod in Russia against these crimes, Met. Valentine took all matters in his own hands, and cut off Archbishop Gregory from any further contact with the bishops in Russia. No synod meeting was ever permitted to convene to hear the charges against Met. Valentine.


    http://orthodoxwiki.org/Talk:Old_Calendarists

    Quote
    Archbishop Gregory (Dormition Skete / Colorado)

    How should his eminence be classified? As a separate jurisdiction? Eddieuny 21:18, 7 Jul 2005 (EDT)
     Good question. What does he call his jurisdiction? Are there any other bishops in it with him? Their website describes them as "temporarily independent." I'd hate to make up a name for them if they didn't have their own, but they are probably worth a mention. —Dcn. Andrew talk random contribs 21:48, 7 Jul 2005 (EDT)
     Oh, here we go: http://www.roacamerica.org/
     It seems they're the "Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church in America." —Dcn. Andrew talk random contribs 22:15, 7 Jul 2005 (EDT)
     It appears that Archbishop Gregory has changed his church's name to the "Genuine Orthodox Church of America." link title. However, this may be ambiguous as the Metropolis of the GOC-Chrysostomite under Metropolitan Pavlos is called GOC as is the Makarian Synod's presence in America. --Anastasios 14:07, February 20, 2006 (CST)
    Article bias?

    I received this feedback today from someone. Any comments? Thanks, Fr. John
    Interesting. I think this article illustrates some of the problems with a publicly edited encyclopedia. Just a couple examples...
    Headed by Metropolitan Valentine of Suzdal, the synod has twelve bishops and is enjoying a period of relative stability amidst intermittent persecution on the part of the state church. One bishop, Gregory (George) of Colorado, recently went into schism, but took no parishes with him save four, calling themselves the Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church in America.
    This seems very biased in favor of Valentine and against Gregory (note that I am not the least bit fond of either of them).

    Hi, this is Joseph Suaiden writing from a new account. While I am no longer part of ROAC, I still wouldn't retratct that. When Gregory discovered the Synod was issuing an order to appear at a Synodal trial, he fled the US, and hid in Greece for somewhere around a month, with only his followers able to communicate with him. In fact, they are now down to ONE active parish in America. So much for the "Genuine Orthodox Church of America". Joseph Suaiden
    In 2001, after the ROCOR made a clear commitment to union with the Moscow Patriarchate, the head of the ROCOR synod, Metropolitan Vitaly, retired in clear disgust from the proceedings.
    Almost immediately afterwards, Metropolitan Vitaly, Archbishop Varnava of Cannes, and the two of the Russian bishops of ROCOR, separated from the ROCOR and made new bishops. The proceedings that led up to these events are well docuмented on the Internet and the treatment of the retired head of the ROCOR was painful to watch, for even the most casual observer.
    Again, obvious bias in favor of the Mansonville schismatics (yes, I have a personal interest here).

    I don't see why it couldn't be worded a bit more neutrally. The original bulk of the article was taken by permission from a text written by a scholar in the field (who is himself, I believe, in one of these groups), JosephSuaiden. In any event, it's curious that the person who wrote to you didn't see instead the inherent strengths of a publicly editable encyclopedia and come contribute.
    I don't know precisely what is the issue here-- frankly, even Bishops of the ROCOR admitted that the event was handled badly, and Bp Michael was disciplined for his involvement in the videotaped incident, regardless of whether or not Mansonville was schismatic. I'll try to be careful; I have been updating my base text to reflect a number of recent changes-- there are now three mansonville groups, to start with.... Joseph Suaiden

    I'll work with those passages to see if I can "neutralize" them a bit. —Dcn. Andrew talk random contribs 15:15, 22 Jul 2005 (EDT)


    There seems to be a bit of a controversy concerning this group.  
    My conscience compels me to make this disclaimer lest God judges me partly culpable for the errors and heresy promoted on this forum... For the record I support neither Sedevacantism or the SSPX.  I do not define myself as either a traditionalist or Novus


    Offline Sigismund

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    Why Jews Push gαy Marriage
    « Reply #35 on: April 05, 2013, 09:55:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Iuvenalis
    I've never heard him claim to be "Father" Nathanael' only a brother.

    He was indeed a brother though at Dormition Skete (http://www.dormitionskete.org), an Orthodox monastery at one time. He lives on his own now, but that typically does not remove 'brother'. It is not holy orders, brothers are unordained, but typically consecrated laity living in a religious community. I don't know how the Orthodox use the term (correction: see below)

    He is hardly laying claim to Holy Orders, or really anything other than that he at one time lived in a religious community. Not exactly a lofty claim.

    Apparently living alone is one of three recognized forms of monastic life by the orthodox (besides living in a skete) and they are still called brothers when they do so: http://www.dormitionskete.org/ds-history.shtml

    Note also his attire which some have called a costume or mockery, matches the habit depicted on Dormition's website: http://www.dormitionskete.org/ds-history.shtml


    I saw only two pictures of monks on the site.  One was the abbot, who is apparently also a bishop wearing the formal full monastic habit which includes the veil.  The other one was of a monk dressed properly but less formally wearing a hat without a veil.  

    Nathaniel wears a white hat, with a red cross on it, at least in some videos.  This is just plain wrong.  He also wears a choker cross around his neck.  No monastic would ever wear such a thing.  Also, in the Russian tradition only priests wear crosses at all.  Unordained monks, or even deacons, do not.  Ever.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Christopher67

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    Why Jews Push gαy Marriage
    « Reply #36 on: April 05, 2013, 11:46:16 PM »
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  • Father Kramer's book, The Mystery of Iniquity would explain everything.

    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #37 on: April 06, 2013, 09:40:26 AM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    Quote from: Iuvenalis
    I've never heard him claim to be "Father" Nathanael' only a brother.

    He was indeed a brother though at Dormition Skete (http://www.dormitionskete.org), an Orthodox monastery at one time. He lives on his own now, but that typically does not remove 'brother'. It is not holy orders, brothers are unordained, but typically consecrated laity living in a religious community. I don't know how the Orthodox use the term (correction: see below)

    He is hardly laying claim to Holy Orders, or really anything other than that he at one time lived in a religious community. Not exactly a lofty claim.

    Apparently living alone is one of three recognized forms of monastic life by the orthodox (besides living in a skete) and they are still called brothers when they do so: http://www.dormitionskete.org/ds-history.shtml

    Note also his attire which some have called a costume or mockery, matches the habit depicted on Dormition's website: http://www.dormitionskete.org/ds-history.shtml


    I saw only two pictures of monks on the site.  One was the abbot, who is apparently also a bishop wearing the formal full monastic habit which includes the veil.  The other one was of a monk dressed properly but less formally wearing a hat without a veil.  

    Nathaniel wears a white hat, with a red cross on it, at least in some videos.  This is just plain wrong.  He also wears a choker cross around his neck.  No monastic would ever wear such a thing.  Also, in the Russian tradition only priests wear crosses at all.  Unordained monks, or even deacons, do not.  Ever.  


    You can down thumb facts all you like, but they are still facts.  Everything I stated in this post is true.  Anyone who actually knew anything about the Eastern Church would know that.  

    NB:  I am not assuming the down thumber was Iuvenalis.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


    Offline Iuvenalis

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    « Reply #38 on: April 06, 2013, 03:55:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund

    NB:  I am not assuming the down thumber was Iuvenalis.


    It wasn't me. I didn't see anything objectionable about your reply.

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    Why Jews Push gαy Marriage
    « Reply #39 on: April 06, 2013, 05:12:40 PM »
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  • Also, looks like this road has been travelled here before:

     http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?a=topic&t=19083&min=0&num=10

    Offline alaric

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    Why Jews Push gαy Marriage
    « Reply #40 on: April 07, 2013, 06:15:11 AM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    Quote from: Hatchc

    I could be wrong, but his clownish antics combined with inserting salacious images into his videos (he does this a lot) rubs me the wrong way.


    By their deeds you shall know them.

    He names the Jew as enemy.

    You do not.

    Indeed ye shall know them.


    Offline alaric

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    Why Jews Push gαy Marriage
    « Reply #41 on: April 07, 2013, 06:19:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant
    Well, I guess I should thank you all for the correction. It never occurred to me that he might be a fake monk. I guess I am pretty naive.  :ape:
    He is genuine, this has all been established before.

    Problem is, he says the things that need to be said.

    For that he is a pariah.