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Author Topic: Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?  (Read 1712 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
« on: November 11, 2016, 09:54:50 AM »
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  • Why isn't consecrated virginity a sacrament?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 10:04:17 AM »
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  • Ask Our Lord.  He chose not to institute a Sacrament for that.  Would seem to me that something like that involves a need for actual graces (which would be plentiful) but not necessarily some ex opere operato effect.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #2 on: November 11, 2016, 10:52:01 AM »
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  • Because SEVEN means perfection, and there are seven sacraments = the Will of God

    Seven days in the week
    Seven colors in the rainbow
    God rested on the seventh day
    In the book of Apocalypse, there are seven churches,
     seven angels to the seven churches,
     seven seals, seven trumpet plagues,
     seven thunders and the seven last plagues.

    And many more mentions of the number seven.  
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #3 on: November 11, 2016, 11:17:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Would seem to me that something like that involves a need for actual graces (which would be plentiful) but not necessarily some ex opere operato effect.
    What you say here seems to be what Pope Pius XII is saying in his 1954 encyclical Sacra Virginitas:
    Quote
    37. We have recently with sorrow censured the opinion of those who contend that marriage is the only means of assuring the natural development and perfection of the human personality.?? For there are those who maintain that the grace of the sacrament, conferred ex opere operato, renders the use of marriage so holy as to be a fitter instrument than virginity for uniting souls with God; for marriage is a sacrament, but not virginity. We denounce this doctrine as a dangerous error. Certainly, the sacrament grants the married couple the grace to accomplish holily the duties of their married state, and it strengthens the bonds of mutual affection that unite them; but the purpose of its institution was not to make the employment of marriage the means, most suitable in itself, for uniting the souls of the husband and wife with God by the bonds of charity.?¹
    It's a beautiful passage because it clears up misconceptions about both virginity and marriage. It seems virginity and marriage can only be properly and fully understood in reference to each other.

    Fr. Hardon, S.J., defines "ex opere operato" as:
    Quote
    A term defined by the Council of Trent to describe how the sacraments confer the grace they signify. Trent condemned the following proposition: "That grace is not conferred 'ex opere operato' by the sacraments of the New Law" (Denzinger 1608). Literally the expression means "from the work performed," stating that grace is always conferred by a sacrament, in virtue of the rite performed and not as a mere sign that grace has already been given, or that the sacrament stimulates the faith of the recipient and thus occasions the obtaining of grace, or that what determines the grace is the virtue of either the minister or recipient of a sacrament. Provided no obstacle (obex) is placed in the way, every sacrament properly administered confers the grace intended by the sacrament. In a true sense the sacraments are instrumental causes of grace.
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    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #4 on: November 11, 2016, 05:19:47 PM »
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  • A good question...  Why do monks, nuns, third order religious, and hermits not get an extra Sacrament for them?

    Marriage is obviously one of the hardest vocations to live properly.  One is responsible for one's own soul and also one's children; all the while living amidst the world.

    Being a priest is a sacred but heavy responsibility.  A priest is in charge of SO MANY souls that he would certainly need extra graces to help him through the difficulties in his life.

    As for the religious life or single life, one might have trials and struggles, but one is usually not as directly responsible for a number of other souls' salvation.

    Also...  I think that perhaps the vocation of being a virgin carries with it enough graces that it does not need to be a Sacrament...

    Hope this helps!

    Keep fighting and may God bless you!  :-)

    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

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    Offline Geremia

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #5 on: November 11, 2016, 05:35:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    A good question...  Why do monks, nuns, third order religious, and hermits not get an extra Sacrament for them?

    Marriage is obviously one of the hardest vocations to live properly.  One is responsible for one's own soul and also one's children; all the while living amidst the world.

    Being a priest is a sacred but heavy responsibility.  A priest is in charge of SO MANY souls that he would certainly need extra graces to help him through the difficulties in his life.

    As for the religious life or single life, one might have trials and struggles, but one is usually not as directly responsible for a number of other souls' salvation.
    But that's not to say that virginity isn't fruitful in its effect on other souls.
    Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    Also...  I think that perhaps the vocation of being a virgin carries with it enough graces that it does not need to be a Sacrament...
    Yes, this is essentially what Ladislaus said above.

    In a way this makes sense of the 24th Session of the Council of Trent where it says:
    Quote from: Canon X.
    If any one saith, that the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy, and that it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony: let him be anathema.
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    Offline songbird

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #6 on: November 11, 2016, 07:26:56 PM »
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  • Nuns do not have Holy Orders.  They do take a Vow.  Man and Wife take vows.  IMO if you take a Vow seriously, God would take that seriously too.  A person taking a Vow, may not have the "sacrament" an outward sign, but IMO, God would take that Vow and the Holy Ghost would direct that person.

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #7 on: November 12, 2016, 06:08:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    A good question...  Why do monks, nuns, third order religious, and hermits not get an extra Sacrament for them?

    Marriage is obviously one of the hardest vocations to live properly.  One is responsible for one's own soul and also one's children; all the while living amidst the world.

    Being a priest is a sacred but heavy responsibility.  A priest is in charge of SO MANY souls that he would certainly need extra graces to help him through the difficulties in his life.

    As for the religious life or single life, one might have trials and struggles, but one is usually not as directly responsible for a number of other souls' salvation.
    But that's not to say that virginity isn't fruitful in its effect on other souls.
    Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    Also...  I think that perhaps the vocation of being a virgin carries with it enough graces that it does not need to be a Sacrament...
    Yes, this is essentially what Ladislaus said above.

    In a way this makes sense of the 24th Session of the Council of Trent where it says:
    Quote from: Canon X.
    If any one saith, that the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy, and that it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony: let him be anathema.


    Yep!  :-)
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

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    Offline Geremia

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #8 on: November 13, 2016, 02:56:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    Quote from: Geremia
    Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    A good question...  Why do monks, nuns, third order religious, and hermits not get an extra Sacrament for them?

    Marriage is obviously one of the hardest vocations to live properly.  One is responsible for one's own soul and also one's children; all the while living amidst the world.

    Being a priest is a sacred but heavy responsibility.  A priest is in charge of SO MANY souls that he would certainly need extra graces to help him through the difficulties in his life.

    As for the religious life or single life, one might have trials and struggles, but one is usually not as directly responsible for a number of other souls' salvation.
    But that's not to say that virginity isn't fruitful in its effect on other souls.
    Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    Also...  I think that perhaps the vocation of being a virgin carries with it enough graces that it does not need to be a Sacrament...
    Yes, this is essentially what Ladislaus said above.

    In a way this makes sense of the 24th Session of the Council of Trent where it says:
    Quote from: Canon X.
    If any one saith, that the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy, and that it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony: let him be anathema.


    Yep!  :-)
    Sts. Joseph and Mary's marriage had graces from virginity plus those from matrimony. Double whammy :smile:
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    Offline Nadir

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #9 on: November 13, 2016, 09:55:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: Geremia
    Sts. Joseph and Mary's marriage had graces from virginity plus those from matrimony. Double whammy :smile:


    + the constant care and companionship our Blessed Lord God, Jesus, the Word made flesh. Triple whammy  :incense:
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #10 on: November 15, 2016, 07:14:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: Nadir
    Quote from: Geremia
    Sts. Joseph and Mary's marriage had graces from virginity plus those from matrimony. Double whammy :smile:


    + the constant care and companionship our Blessed Lord God, Jesus, the Word made flesh. Triple whammy  :incense:


    Lots of laughter...  YEP!!!   :laugh1:
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #11 on: November 15, 2016, 08:21:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    A good question...  Why do monks, nuns, third order religious, and hermits not get an extra Sacrament for them?

    Marriage is obviously one of the hardest vocations to live properly.  One is responsible for one's own soul and also one's children; all the while living amidst the world.

    Being a priest is a sacred but heavy responsibility.  A priest is in charge of SO MANY souls that he would certainly need extra graces to help him through the difficulties in his life.

    As for the religious life or single life, one might have trials and struggles, but one is usually not as directly responsible for a number of other souls' salvation.

    Also...  I think that perhaps the vocation of being a virgin carries with it enough graces that it does not need to be a Sacrament...

    Hope this helps!

    Keep fighting and may God bless you!  :-)



    It's not about how difficult a vocation is.  God is generous with actual graces, graces of state; some things however call for ex opere operato effects and not just actual graces.

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #12 on: November 15, 2016, 05:01:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    A good question...  Why do monks, nuns, third order religious, and hermits not get an extra Sacrament for them?

    Marriage is obviously one of the hardest vocations to live properly.  One is responsible for one's own soul and also one's children; all the while living amidst the world.

    Being a priest is a sacred but heavy responsibility.  A priest is in charge of SO MANY souls that he would certainly need extra graces to help him through the difficulties in his life.

    As for the religious life or single life, one might have trials and struggles, but one is usually not as directly responsible for a number of other souls' salvation.

    Also...  I think that perhaps the vocation of being a virgin carries with it enough graces that it does not need to be a Sacrament...

    Hope this helps!

    Keep fighting and may God bless you!  :-)



    It's not about how difficult a vocation is.  God is generous with actual graces, graces of state; some things however call for ex opere operato effects and not just actual graces.


    Sorry...  That is what I meant to say, but did not have the words to express properly.  Thank you for explaining to everyone!  :-)
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

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    Offline shin

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #13 on: November 15, 2016, 05:56:46 PM »
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  • This reminds of the story of Eucharistus and his wife, from the desert fathers.

    "Two Fathers asked God to reveal to them how far they had advanced. A voice came which said, 'In a certain village in Egypt there is a man called Eucharistus and his wife who is called Mary. You have not yet reached their degree of virtue.'

    The two old men set out and went to the village. Having enquired, they found his house and his wife. They said to her, 'Where is your husband?' She replied, 'He is a shepherd and is feeding the sheep.' Then she made them come into the house. When evening came, Eucharistus returned with the sheep. Seeing the old men, he set the table and brought water to wash their feet. The old men said to him, 'We shall not eat anything until you have told us about your way of life.'

    Eucharistus replied with humility, 'I am a Shepherd, and this is my wife.' The old men insisted but he did not want to say more. Then they said, 'God has sent us to you.' At these words, Eucharistus was afraid and said, 'Here are these sheep; we received them from our parents, and if, by God's help we make a little profit, we divide it into three parts: one for the poor, the second for hospitality, and the third for our personal needs. Since I married my wife, we have not had relations with one another, for she is a virgin; we each live alone. At night we wear hair-shirts and our ordinary clothes by day. No-one has known of this till now.'

    At these words they were filled with admiration and went away giving glory to God."
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

    Offline St John Evangelist

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    Why isnt consecrated virginity a sacrament?
    « Reply #14 on: November 16, 2016, 03:20:23 AM »
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  • I think that the sacraments are for the ordinary life in the Church, they are for things absolutely necessary. Not that consecrated virginity doesn't contribute greatly to the Church, but the Church would simply fail altogether if marriage fell apart.

    Consecrated virginity is still a sacramental.