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Author Topic: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?  (Read 2031 times)

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Offline Tallinn Trad

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  • If you listen to scientists and behavioural psychologists they will say that the reason that men and women find each other attractive are due to biological and physical traits that suggest suitability for procreation and a desire to pass on our genes.

    The desire to have sex with a certain person stems from the desire to pass on our genes to the next generation.  Or to put it another way, the desire to pass on our genes is the first cause of the reason we want to have sex.

    How then can they explain that in a single generation or two (very literally zero in evolutionary time) the desire to have children has dropped off almost completely?  Birth-rates are not even at replacement for the first time in history and yet the obsession with sex is greater than ever.  The cause appears to have been completely removed from society and yet the result has not.

    There are now a number of people who don't want to have any children in order to save the planet (for the trees and other people's children).  They appear to have easily suppressed the desire to pass on their genes in a single generation.


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #1 on: November 15, 2019, 07:35:49 AM »
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  • An organism doesn't need to have an intellectual desire to procreate to pass on its genes. Wanting to have sex has, for all of evolutionary history up until the last few decades, been sufficient. Now it isn't, but there's been no time for evolution to take place.


    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #2 on: November 15, 2019, 08:02:56 AM »
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  • It needs a biological desire.  And one desire stems from the other.  One causes the other.  Cause/effect.

    Do people have babies because they primarily want to have sex ?

    or

    Do people have sex because they primarily want to have babies ?

    ---

    It seems OBVIOUS from observing human behaviour that the first statement is true.  Which implies a creator or designer put it there.  Then told us "be fruitful and multiply".  We can disobey the creator because of our free will but we cannot very easily overcome the desire to have sex, (only resist it which is very difficult) because that is the cause and hard wired into our biology.

    Evolutionists tell us both these desires are hardwired into our DNA but that the cause is the biological imperative for procreation and the effect is sɛҳuąƖ desire to reach that goal.  But this suggests these biological desires would both take eons to change if they ever changes.  Yet one has fallen off a cliff and the other has increased.

    The end (passing your genes on through babies) has been dropped in a 40-100 year period and the means (sɛҳuąƖ intercourse) is more focused on that ever.  I can't see how evolution accounts for this.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #3 on: November 15, 2019, 08:47:37 AM »
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  • It needs a biological desire.  And one desire stems from the other.  One causes the other.  Cause/effect.

    Do people have babies because they primarily want to have sex ?

    or

    Do people have sex because they primarily want to have babies ?

    ---

    It seems OBVIOUS from observing human behaviour that the first statement is true.  Which implies a creator or designer put it there.  Then told us "be fruitful and multiply".  We can disobey the creator because of our free will but we cannot very easily overcome the desire to have sex, (only resist it which is very difficult) because that is the cause and hard wired into our biology.

    Evolutionists tell us both these desires are hardwired into our DNA but that the cause is the biological imperative for procreation and the effect is sɛҳuąƖ desire to reach that goal.  But this suggests these biological desires would both take eons to change if they ever changes.  Yet one has fallen off a cliff and the other has increased.

    The end (passing your genes on through babies) has been dropped in a 40-100 year period and the means (sɛҳuąƖ intercourse) is more focused on that ever.  I can't see how evolution accounts for this.
    The theory would go that organisms that enjoyed sex had more of it, whereas the ones that didn't enjoy it didn't have it, so they never passed on their genes and died out. Meaning the next generation would all enjoy it. 

    There is no need for an organism to have a biological desire to want to have kids, before birth control as long as they wanted to have sex, they'd pass on their genes as a side effect of that. 
    The fact that people don't want kids anymore doesn't necessarily mean there's been any sort of biological change. First of all, there might've been a significant minority who didn't want kids before birth control, but just didn't have a choice in the matter if they ever wanted to get married. Secondly, the drop could be(and likely is) caused by feminism and women working outside the home, that is to say, it could be caused by social and cultural rather than biological factors. 

    I don't actually believe in evolution(not macro anyway), but I think the theory can adequately explain this issue. 

    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #4 on: November 15, 2019, 10:21:20 AM »
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  • So in that case the cause is a desire to have sex, not the desire or biological imperative to reproduce.

    If you read the evolutionists writings they seem to suggest the opposite.  That human attractiveness is caused by a desire to pass on their genes and sex is the mechanism to do that, but procreation (the end) causes sex (the means) to be desirable (at a biological level).

    Is there any evidence that simple organisms "enjoy" sex.  Do they get any reward from it by nature in terms of chemical or hormone boost?

    And what of sexless reproduction?  Every living thing reproduces, but not everything mates.


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #5 on: November 15, 2019, 11:30:59 AM »
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  • Evolution is nonsense.

    Man and animals are different. If the procreation of humans is linked to God's plan for the healty survival of animals, a process of the fittist genes dominating, then human males would be physically fighting over females like many male animals do. I am not aware of one man in my life who spoke of spreading his genes as a reason for sɛҳuąƖ activity.

    God created humans male and female, so attracted to one another that procreation is guaranteed. But God gave man a natural law and commandments to abide by. One husband one wife is the norm in the world today. I suspect the reason why large families are avoided now is because of costs in rearing them the world today.

    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #6 on: November 15, 2019, 12:05:46 PM »
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  • I know it is nonsense, but I am raising the question to demonstrate this.

    The human population expanded for all of history.  People had children and many of them died so growth was slow.  There were famines, epidemics etc.

    With mechanisation, medicine, and huge improvements in agricultural yield and less childhood mortality population numbers grew and grew and grew from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion today.

    However, just about everywhere in the world now populations are stable or declining.  They are expected to peak at 8-9 billion and then drop.  In plenty of developed countries they are already dropping and immigration is plugging the gap.

    So why is this the case?  If the desire to procreate and reproduce is an evolutionary imperative.  Why has it stopped in the last 50 years?  People are still having sex, but not reproducing and they have stopped reproducing in essentially 1 or 2 generations.

    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #7 on: November 15, 2019, 12:13:34 PM »
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  • Quote
    I suspect the reason why large families are avoided now is because of costs in rearing them the world today.
    Men have sex with women who get pregnant and they are on the hook for child support payments for children they don't even see very often.  If people wanted to get the most out of every dollar they earned they would avoid this like the plague.

    The costs of raising children is not high.  The 3rd and 4th child are much cheaper in fact because you already have everything.
    The reason people don't have large families today is because THEY DON'T LIKE CHILDREN MUCH.  One or two is "enough", then they want to get back to work and get a 60inch TV and watch the ball game if they are men or go out with their girlfriends if they are women.  Children are an accessory and that is all.  If their social circle all had rare breeds of dog, then they would have dogs instead.  That is ALL children are to secular people which is why they abort them so easily.
    In short, modern people in first world countries are really NOT interested in spreading their genes.


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #8 on: November 15, 2019, 12:45:32 PM »
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  • So in that case the cause is a desire to have sex, not the desire or biological imperative to reproduce.

    If you read the evolutionists writings they seem to suggest the opposite.  That human attractiveness is caused by a desire to pass on their genes and sex is the mechanism to do that, but procreation (the end) causes sex (the means) to be desirable (at a biological level).
    Person A is attracted to X trait. Person B is attracted to Y trait. X trait is beneficial, Y trait is bad. Person A's more likely to have healthy kids live long enough to have kids of their own, so over time everyone(or the vast majority of people) become attracted to X. Same process might also cause people to be repulsed by Y. You don't consciously think "Oh wow I love her clear skin because it indicates good health", but the reason you're attracted to clear skin on a subconscious level is because it's a health indicator. It's not really that your brain has some cheat sheet saying "clear skin = healthy", but rather that people who chose partners with clear skin rather than skin with boils, etc. were more likely to pass on their genes. So whatever gene or genes flips the "clear skin is attractive" switch in your head got passed on and spread to the general population. 

    There's no desire to do anything in evolution. It's just a game of probability and inheritance.

    Is there any evidence that simple organisms "enjoy" sex.  Do they get any reward from it by nature in terms of chemical or hormone boost?

    And what of sexless reproduction?  Every living thing reproduces, but not everything mates.
    I don't know what the story is there. 

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #9 on: November 15, 2019, 03:26:05 PM »
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  • If you listen to scientists and behavioural psychologists they will say that the reason that men and women find each other attractive are due to biological and physical traits that suggest suitability for procreation and a desire to pass on our genes.

    The desire to have sex with a certain person stems from the desire to pass on our genes to the next generation.  Or to put it another way, the desire to pass on our genes is the first cause of the reason we want to have sex.

    How then can they explain that in a single generation or two (very literally zero in evolutionary time) the desire to have children has dropped off almost completely?  Birth-rates are not even at replacement for the first time in history and yet the obsession with sex is greater than ever.  The cause appears to have been completely removed from society and yet the result has not.

    There are now a number of people who don't want to have any children in order to save the planet (for the trees and other people's children).  They appear to have easily suppressed the desire to pass on their genes in a single generation.
    The answer to this is simple. People are going against their nature and thus becoming unfit for survival. Your objection has no bearing on the truth of evolution as a scientific theory.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #10 on: November 15, 2019, 06:30:12 PM »
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  • Person A is attracted to X trait. Person B is attracted to Y trait. X trait is beneficial, Y trait is bad. Person A's more likely to have healthy kids live long enough to have kids of their own, so over time everyone(or the vast majority of people) become attracted to X. Same process might also cause people to be repulsed by Y. You don't consciously think "Oh wow I love her clear skin because it indicates good health", but the reason you're attracted to clear skin on a subconscious level is because it's a health indicator. It's not really that your brain has some cheat sheet saying "clear skin = healthy", but rather that people who chose partners with clear skin rather than skin with boils, etc. were more likely to pass on their genes. So whatever gene or genes flips the "clear skin is attractive" switch in your head got passed on and spread to the general population.

    There's no desire to do anything in evolution. It's just a game of probability and inheritance.
    I don't know what the story is there.
    How then do you explain very ugly races of people such as Australian abos?
    Some races are pig ugly compared to others, yet we are supposed to come from common African ancestors (science) and Adam and Eve, (religion).


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #11 on: November 16, 2019, 08:12:01 PM »
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  • How then do you explain very ugly races of people such as Australian abos?
    Some races are pig ugly compared to others, yet we are supposed to come from common African ancestors (science) and Adam and Eve, (religion).
    Probably a combination of inbreeding(they were completely isolated for a very long time) and just normal adaption. The traits you've evolved to find attractive will to some extent be different than theirs, as the environment of your ancestors was different to theirs. 

    Actually, at this point we aren't even speaking of macro-evolution but rather micro. Micro-evolution we can see even in dogs. Might a huskey ask why pugs are ugly, and disprove the claim that humans selectively bred them? While selective breeding and natural selection are not the same thing, the same underlying principle of genes being selected for and passed down applies. Even if macro-evolution is false, it doesn't necessarily mean the different "breeds" of men didn't adapt to their environments.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #12 on: November 17, 2019, 02:40:07 PM »
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  • How then do you explain very ugly races of people such as Australian abos?
    Some races are pig ugly compared to others, yet we are supposed to come from common African ancestors (science) and Adam and Eve, (religion).

    Observing that you are such a deep thinker, here's some intellectual stimulation for you, Tallinn Trad:

    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090403125406AAkTurV&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly95YW5kZXguY29tLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJ8yV8oI0HNHDgIdB7gMrU-ymqC_y6Gq8drp38ReS0L78oR_c3CoTzPl0KiWu9BuqaO2x4GCTqvWBEWdk2mQDq-Q-ila_h-qZCIzKqf7cACLR-xcP1sUoIqCncLmxSLueJ6cNoGLHD-mpr-kMZxs7LZGe42wrBmCfBhOgvKL3oDB
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #13 on: November 17, 2019, 04:51:35 PM »
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  • What is not being mentioned in this evolution theory is that Children are being taught sex with their own sex.  Therefore no children.  And the world is being taught beastiality with animals. Then Porn.  Then the children(if there are any) being used, abused killed for sex.  We have so called sects or occults where babies are married and used and gotten rid of.

    So, the evolutionist call these actions, behaviors evolutionary, which is not in our definitions.  Evolution theory is to be rid of God the Creator of the World.  When you rid Him, you rid all of His Design.  Sounds like the Radical Jєω theory, Cabbala to be rid of all which is of God.

    So, these evolutionists are wasting their time!  Laughable. Evolutionist are full of, well, we will be nice and say Opinions.  That is what the masons use to get their ideas across.

    Louis Pasteur, should be a saint.  Catholic, and bothered by the darwinists.  Louis proved by pasteurizing their theories were no good. Things just do not spontaneously appear.


    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Why don't people have children, more children, if evolution is true?
    « Reply #14 on: November 17, 2019, 08:09:01 PM »
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  • What is not being mentioned in this evolution theory is that Children are being taught sex with their own sex.  Therefore no children.  And the world is being taught beastiality with animals. Then Porn.  Then the children(if there are any) being used, abused killed for sex.  We have so called sects or occults where babies are married and used and gotten rid of.

    So, the evolutionist call these actions, behaviors evolutionary, which is not in our definitions.  Evolution theory is to be rid of God the Creator of the World.  When you rid Him, you rid all of His Design.  Sounds like the Radical Jєω theory, Cabbala to be rid of all which is of God.

    So, these evolutionists are wasting their time!  Laughable. Evolutionist are full of, well, we will be nice and say Opinions.  That is what the masons use to get their ideas across.

    Louis Pasteur, should be a saint.  Catholic, and bothered by the darwinists.  Louis proved by pasteurizing their theories were no good. Things just do not spontaneously appear.
    That’s a ridiculous caricature of the theory of evolution. Study some biology.
    If you want an understanding of evolution, read What Evolution Is by Ernst Mayr
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9