Author Topic: Why did God create black people? (Read 22243 times)

Daegus · « **Reply #30 on:** July 04, 2011, 01:35:38 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

FWIW, Daegus, while your youth may be/have been trying (which is unavoidable, in a sense), know and trust that God has clearly shown His predilection in your regard -- otherwise, you would not know what you now know or be drawn to Him as you are. Draw near to Him, letting Him fill you with His own life and love...and then He might just use you to set many others on fire, too. Who knows, maybe you can help this old, salty-dog of an Irishman :)

Thank you for the kind words and good advice. It really helps.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #31 on:** July 04, 2011, 01:47:34 PM »

Tis a pleasure to be somewhat useful :)

roscoe · « **Reply #32 on:** July 04, 2011, 01:50:13 PM »

There are no Mexicans playing BBall in the NBA. Should Affirmative Action be deployed in this case?

Daegus · « **Reply #33 on:** July 04, 2011, 01:59:04 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

There are no Mexicans playing BBall in the NBA. Should Affirmative Action be deployed in this case?

If a tree falls in the middle of a forest and no one is around to hear it, is it righteous to say that 3 lambs were also slaughtered that day? :soapbox:

lefebvre_fan · « **Reply #34 on:** July 04, 2011, 02:46:21 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Quote from: lefebvre_fan
Anyway, my point is that race or ethnicity doesn't make any difference, but a person's upbringing and social environment clearly do.

BS. There ARE easily-discernible and quantifiable, generally-true differences. All other talk is nonsense that ignores the facts, seeking to march in step with the PC anti-culture. For example, they have tried to tweak every IQ test known, in every conceivable way, to make them produce the 'leveling results' desired -- it never works. However, a man is NOT his IQ... There are MANY factors that make a man what he is, and many with high IQs are rather sub-standard men. That said, the generally-true differences do not apply in every specific case or equate to MORAL superiority.

See, the problem I have with this view (and which I recognize to be the majority view among trads I know) is then, how does this account for the kind of situation described in my post (which you see in real life from time to time) of a person from one race being raised by someone of another race, and growing up to be, for all intents and purposes, mentally and culturally identical to their foster parents?

I'm not saying that there are -zero- differences between people of different races (after all, the existence of racial differences in itself implies some level of inequality), but that there are no -substantive- difference between people of different races. Just the fact that we are having this multi-racial conversation at all simply goes to prove this point. If blacks (or any other race) were truly inferior, then why are we able to communicate with each other at the same intellectual level?

Note that I am NOT saying that you were implying that one race is inferior to another, but that your assertion that there are substantive, inherent differences between people of difference races would SEEM to suggest that one race should be considered inferior to another. After all, difference implies inequality. Just as men are socially superior to women on account of their physical strength, so (by following your assertion to its logical conclusion) the physical and/or intellectual strengths of one race would make it superior to other races. And don't give me this, "each race has its own strengths, so each is equal in a way". Clearly, certain strengths are more important than others. For instance, just because women are more nurturing and compassionate by nature does not make them the equal of men, who are physically stronger and more assertive.

roscoe · « **Reply #35 on:** July 04, 2011, 02:49:28 PM »

I f anyone wants to have some real Fun, go over to MP3 Downloads at Amazon and type in Miles Davis Four. u can have the masterpiece for a measly $.99

The Definitive Miles Davis on Prestige-- it is currently #9 or 13 and is a Digital Remaster from 1954. Probably( along w/ Studio J by Toshiko Akiyoshi Big Band-- not yet on Amazon MP3's) the greatest of all Jazz Tracks.

lefebvre_fan · « **Reply #36 on:** July 04, 2011, 02:55:36 PM »

Note that if the existence of substantive differences (intellectually speaking, at least) between different races is your view, that's fine. That's your opinion, and so long as it doesn't contradict the teaching of the Catholic Church or simple reason, you're certainly entitled to it. But I hope you can see where -I'm- coming from, and that I'm not just saying what I say for the sake of political correctness. Believe me, I've been all over the place on the issue of race in the past, but I think that I've come at last to a reasonable conclusion based on personal observation.

lefebvre_fan · « **Reply #37 on:** July 04, 2011, 03:11:21 PM »

Also, I know it might seem like I'm arguing "the exception proves the rule," but I'm not (or at least, that's not my intention). What -I'm- interested in is this: how do you EXPLAIN the exception? Why are the majority of black people dumb as bricks (no offense), but some of them are as smart or sometimes smarter than the rest of us? I'm sure that if you examined both groups (the smart and dumb ones), you would not find any physical differences that could account for this (such as brain size, skull shape, etc.). So then, how does one explain the intellectual difference between the 'average' black man and the super intelligent black man?

Jaynek · « **Reply #38 on:** July 04, 2011, 03:33:04 PM »

Quote from: lefebvre_fan

After all, difference implies inequality. Just as men are socially superior to women on account of their physical strength, so (by following your assertion to its logical conclusion) the physical and/or intellectual strengths of one race would make it superior to other races. And don't give me this, "each race has its own strengths, so each is equal in a way". Clearly, certain strengths are more important than others. For instance, just because women are more nurturing and compassionate by nature does not make them the equal of men, who are physically stronger and more assertive.

Men and women are equal in dignity as human beings. A husband is the head of a wife, but that is not the same as saying that men are superior to women in general.

Jaynek · « **Reply #39 on:** July 04, 2011, 03:39:53 PM »

Quote from: lefebvre_fan

Believe me, I've been all over the place on the issue of race in the past, but I think that I've come at last to a reasonable conclusion based on personal observation.

Personal observation is not likely to lead to accurate conclusions. Even if the sample size is statistically significant, you will not have matched controls. Also one's perceptions will be affected by confirmation bias.

lefebvre_fan · « **Reply #40 on:** July 04, 2011, 03:53:24 PM »

Quote from: Jaynek

Men and women are equal in dignity as human beings. A husband is the head of a wife, but that is not the same as saying that men are superior to women in general.

I suppose I can't dispute that. Still, if we take gladius' statement about the inherent differences between races at face value, one could say that all men are equal before God (which the Church has always taught, just as it has taught that men and women are equal in dignity before God's eyes), and yet, some races are -naturally- (not supernaturally) inferior to others.

Quote from: Jaynek

Personal observation is not likely to lead to accurate conclusions. Even if the sample size is statistically significant, you will not have matched controls. Also one's perceptions will be affected by confirmation bias.

Hmm, you've got a point there. Touché.

lefebvre_fan · « **Reply #41 on:** July 04, 2011, 04:02:00 PM »

I guess that I should also add that I'm not saying that there are no significant differences -at all- between different races. For instance, I'm from a Scottish background, and it seems that there is a higher prevalence of mental illness among people with an Irish/Scottish background than those from other European backgrounds. I have a melancholic temperament and OCD, and many of my cousins and aunts, along with other people I know with a similar ancestry, are also introverts with OCD and/or depression.

However, I'm not personally convinced that there is any significant difference in terms of intellectual -capacity- between people of different races.

Also, I guess I should add that I don't think men are superior/inferior to women (after all, the two complement each other, and one couldn't exist without the other). However, I think it's fair to say that there is a certain natural inequality between men and women, and that it generally favors men, especially when it comes to physical strength (although the two are generally intellectually equal, aside from their natural emotional/hormonal differences. I know some of you will disagree with me on this point and cite the writings of Bishop Williamson. While he is a good and holy bishop, I personally prefer to take the example of the great martyr Thomas More, who gave his daughters the same education as his son, and whose daughter Margaret greatly impressed the court with her sharp wit and wide knowledge. But anyway, I'm getting off track, lol).

roscoe · « **Reply #42 on:** July 04, 2011, 04:03:50 PM »

Try these

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/909497/396/Mob-robbers-hit-convenience-stores-in-St-Paul

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/pack-of-teens-trash-dunkin-donuts-20110523-lgf

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-on-foot/2011/01/man-attacked-by-kids-at-l-enfant-metro----bystanders-watch-film-6880.html

Jaynek · « **Reply #43 on:** July 04, 2011, 04:08:17 PM »

Quote from: lefebvre_fan

Quote from: Jaynek
Men and women are equal in dignity as human beings. A husband is the head of a wife, but that is not the same as saying that men are superior to women in general.

I suppose I can't dispute that. Still, if we take gladius' statement about the inherent differences between races at face value, one could say that all men are equal before God (which the Church has always taught, just as it has taught that men and women are equal in dignity before God's eyes), and yet, some races are -naturally- (not supernaturally) inferior to others.

I agree that there are inherent differences between races but it does not follow from this that some are generally inferior to others. If we narrow it down to something specific we can say things like "whites are inferior to blacks at playing basketball" or "men are inferior to women at reading emotional responses". But we can't extend that to make general statements that whites are inferior to blacks or men are inferior to women. The differences mean that one is better at different things than the other, not that any is generally inferior.

lefebvre_fan · « **Reply #44 on:** July 04, 2011, 04:24:18 PM »

OK, let me start over. When I originally said the following:

Quote from: lefebvre_fan

Anyway, my point is that race or ethnicity doesn't make any difference, but a person's upbringing and social environment clearly do.

What I -really- meant to say (but didn't to a good job of saying) is that I don't believe that there are any substantive differences in terms of intellectual capacity between different races (or between men and women, for that matter). There are significant differences, but I'm not convinced that intellectual capacity is one of them.

Note that -I- am not saying that blacks/whites or men/women are superior/inferior. What I -am- saying is that if we take the position that -Gladius- seems to be taking, one would have to conclude that certain races are inherently intellectually inferior to others. -If- that's his opinion, then that's fine, but it's not one that I share.

But yes, if you must know, it is true that I -am- saying that there are natural differences between men and women which seem to favor men, at least in terms of obtaining power/wealth/social status (the things that are widely considered to be 'natural' goods, but that people who enter religious life willingly reject in order to follow Christ better).