Author Topic: Why did God create black people? (Read 22263 times)

Emerentiana · « **Reply #120 on:** July 07, 2011, 09:31:18 AM »

Quote from: lefebvre_fan

Quote from: Emerentiana
Surely Cain's descendants died out in the flood? There were only 8 survivors. Noah and his family. Noah was descended from Seth.

Anyhow, as has been pointed out, Cain was also a son of Adam, and therefore so were his descendants.

According to Catherine Emmerich, the modern descendents of the black race are from Noah's son Ham.

Here are her revalations on Cain :

That's interesting! I had never read that before. I do find puzzling, though: she says that a certain number of the fallen angels had a "moment of repentance". I thought that the Church has always taught that angels, being purely spiritual beings, were incapable of repentance. What's the deal with that?

The topic here was black people. All I wanted to do is to give the revalations of Blessed Catherine Emmerich on the subject.

lefebvre_fan · « **Reply #121 on:** July 07, 2011, 10:20:15 AM »

Quote from: Emerentiana

The topic here was black people. All I wanted to do is to give the revalations of Blessed Catherine Emmerich on the subject.

And all I wanted to do was show that her writings should not be taken as the gospel truth, but should be approached (as with most private revelations) with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Cognorati001 · « **Reply #122 on:** July 11, 2011, 11:29:38 PM »

I want to thank you for kind intentions and the reasonable tone of your post -- I deliberately chose not to respond to the thread or view it again, because I knew that there would be a couple of cruel responses -- I was right.

Sadly, I won't be regularly viewing any Catholic forums on a regular basis or having any attachment to Catholicism any longer. It disrupts my peace and I find the level of hatred and cruelty displayed in a variety of issues shocking -- I think most ordinary people do, all over the world.

Another poster asked for a response:

Quote

Cognorati, you are contradicting yourself. You said there are many black Catholics then proceeded to shame us for why there are almost none. In this culture there are almost no black Catholics. Rather than getting upset over someone's very true-to-them observations, why not offer information otherwise? Perhaps links to places they've never been that will open their minds?

Actually, I didn't contradict myself. There are more baptized Black Catholics in the world than such groups as "Irish" Catholics, etc. If you look at a single nation like Brazil, and then hop around all the Black populations throughout the carribbean and Latin America and Africa, it becomes obvious. On the other hand, those Catholics will likely not identify with strains of the "traditional Catholic movement" because of the sentiments expressed throughout the thread.

As for people feeling guilty or ashamed, I actually think people should feel bad if they walk around with that kind of animosity for people they've never met.

Also, I don't exist to offer information or prove people wrong -- like most Black people I'm not here to spend my life educating people. I am just a human being, and I believe that that is why I exist. Further, I believe that people who have that kind of antipathy are beyond reasoning with -- there are simply too many irrational ideas and actual falsehoods they believe to contend with.

For the sake of argument, a couple in the thread included the idea that Blacks are not Catholic, that Blacks are intellectually inferior (which has been proven through intelligence testing), and the very idea that "race" is an objective reality.

I actually have a degree in Education with specific emphasis in assessment and testing, and I can assure you that "intelligence" tests do not purport to measure intelligence, but are assumed predictions of how people will perform in school. Also, all Black populations have not been tested throughout the world, and there are so many variables that would affect who is designated as "Black" and what might impact test scores, that it is impossible to say that there are "racial" differences in test results.

Worthy of note: Jєωιѕн immigrants had lower IQ test results at the turn of century and were widely assumed to be intellectually inferior, but now their IQ test results are indistinguishable for other "whites" or are higher. If Asians stay in America multi-generationally their grades and scores actually go down, and become comparable to "white" peers: does that mean "white" culture is inferior and makes people stupid? Different groups of "Blacks" score differently on tests and receive higher grades...

If a person has the kind of antipathy that a lot of "trads" do to Blacks all these arguments become meaningless, and they quite literally cannot be reasoned with, which is why any further comment on this or any issue is a waste of my time.

Simply stated, I give up on Catholicism -- like most ordinary people-- and let people live in their own (alienated) reality. I've decided that any of these issues are no longer my business or problem.

Quote from: Elizabeth

Quote from: Cognorati001
For the OP:

I'm actually a multiracial Black woman, and a (former) traditionalist -- I left the Catholic Church after the fallout of being abused by a priest, and also because of the some of the incredible cruelty that I've witnessed and experienced from "trads."

I know that you are rather young, but I have to tell you that I found the title of the thread and sentiments expressed deeply offensive. Many, many people have access to everyone's comments and these types of sentiments are exactly what people will deliberately use to condemn Catholics. The internet is the only contact I have with Catholics -- by choice -- and it's said that even that is polluted by unnecessary aggression and cruelty.

Essentially, you are asking whether or not I should have existed, and if my existence proves an inherent defect. I am curious as to what I have done to you, and what any other Blacks have done to you (specifically)?

BTW, for the poster who said that there are almost "no" Black Catholics: there are likely more Black Catholics globally than American (white) ones, or even the Irish. If you don't count Black populations in South and Latin America, Africa, and Europe there's nothing I can do for you...

Last, those who've posted do realize that the reason there are "almost no" Black trads is because of the sentiments expressed, right? Why would Black people be attracted to tradition if we can look forward to being described as inherently inferior animals who may or may not be worthy of existence?

Cognorati--Welcome--the OP probably shocked you and you replied to it off the bat-just as I would have done.

I hope you will continue to participate in the discussions.

LordPhan · « **Reply #123 on:** July 12, 2011, 12:07:18 AM »

Quote from: Cognorati001

I want to thank you for kind intentions and the reasonable tone of your post -- I deliberately chose not to respond to the thread or view it again, because I knew that there would be a couple of cruel responses -- I was right.

Sadly, I won't be regularly viewing any Catholic forums on a regular basis or having any attachment to Catholicism any longer. It disrupts my peace and I find the level of hatred and cruelty displayed in a variety of issues shocking -- I think most ordinary people do, all over the world.

Another poster asked for a response:

Quote
Cognorati, you are contradicting yourself. You said there are many black Catholics then proceeded to shame us for why there are almost none. In this culture there are almost no black Catholics. Rather than getting upset over someone's very true-to-them observations, why not offer information otherwise? Perhaps links to places they've never been that will open their minds?

Actually, I didn't contradict myself. There are more baptized Black Catholics in the world than such groups as "Irish" Catholics, etc. If you look at a single nation like Brazil, and then hop around all the Black populations throughout the carribbean and Latin America and Africa, it becomes obvious. On the other hand, those Catholics will likely not identify with strains of the "traditional Catholic movement" because of the sentiments expressed throughout the thread.

As for people feeling guilty or ashamed, I actually think people should feel bad if they walk around with that kind of animosity for people they've never met.

Also, I don't exist to offer information or prove people wrong -- like most Black people I'm not here to spend my life educating people. I am just a human being, and I believe that that is why I exist. Further, I believe that people who have that kind of antipathy are beyond reasoning with -- there are simply too many irrational ideas and actual falsehoods they believe to contend with.

For the sake of argument, a couple in the thread included the idea that Blacks are not Catholic, that Blacks are intellectually inferior (which has been proven through intelligence testing), and the very idea that "race" is an objective reality.

I actually have a degree in Education with specific emphasis in assessment and testing, and I can assure you that "intelligence" tests do not purport to measure intelligence, but are assumed predictions of how people will perform in school. Also, all Black populations have not been tested throughout the world, and there are so many variables that would affect who is designated as "Black" and what might impact test scores, that it is impossible to say that there are "racial" differences in test results.

Worthy of note: Jєωιѕн immigrants had lower IQ test results at the turn of century and were widely assumed to be intellectually inferior, but now their IQ test results are indistinguishable for other "whites" or are higher. If Asians stay in America multi-generationally their grades and scores actually go down, and become comparable to "white" peers: does that mean "white" culture is inferior and makes people stupid? Different groups of "Blacks" score differently on tests and receive higher grades...

If a person has the kind of antipathy that a lot of "trads" do to Blacks all these arguments become meaningless, and they quite literally cannot be reasoned with, which is why any further comment on this or any issue is a waste of my time.

Simply stated, I give up on Catholicism -- like most ordinary people-- and let people live in their own (alienated) reality. I've decided that any of these issues are no longer my business or problem.

Quote from: Elizabeth
Quote from: Cognorati001
For the OP:

I'm actually a multiracial Black woman, and a (former) traditionalist -- I left the Catholic Church after the fallout of being abused by a priest, and also because of the some of the incredible cruelty that I've witnessed and experienced from "trads."

I know that you are rather young, but I have to tell you that I found the title of the thread and sentiments expressed deeply offensive. Many, many people have access to everyone's comments and these types of sentiments are exactly what people will deliberately use to condemn Catholics. The internet is the only contact I have with Catholics -- by choice -- and it's said that even that is polluted by unnecessary aggression and cruelty.

Essentially, you are asking whether or not I should have existed, and if my existence proves an inherent defect. I am curious as to what I have done to you, and what any other Blacks have done to you (specifically)?

BTW, for the poster who said that there are almost "no" Black Catholics: there are likely more Black Catholics globally than American (white) ones, or even the Irish. If you don't count Black populations in South and Latin America, Africa, and Europe there's nothing I can do for you...

Last, those who've posted do realize that the reason there are "almost no" Black trads is because of the sentiments expressed, right? Why would Black people be attracted to tradition if we can look forward to being described as inherently inferior animals who may or may not be worthy of existence?

Cognorati--Welcome--the OP probably shocked you and you replied to it off the bat-just as I would have done.

I hope you will continue to participate in the discussions.

I'm sorry but I'm finding it very sad that you could get a degree in anything with a post such as this, it is completely devoid of logic. You are leaving the one true church because you don't like some people in it? You are condemning yourself to hell because you have a problem with a few posters in a catholic forum.

I am the posts that were bad were from Roscoe, and Roscoe isn't catholic.
He's some drugged up hippie who comes here and bugs people.

But even if he was a catholic, this thread has no relation to catholic theology in anyway shape or form, this thread was started by Daegus a black youth, so your problem would be with another black person.

My only posts in this thread up until now were to enlighten said youth that there are quite a few black trads a couple hundred kilometres south of him.

Sadly, by lacking any logic whatsoever and using pure emotionalism you are going to end up making people think less of yourself and possibly change those who are leaning towards a dislike of your race into believing their stereotypes more. Your posting does more harm then good this is not some forum of random less intelligent liberals. This forum is filled with people who debate on logic and reason. And most of the comments were in that realm. Alas you failed to see that and allowed your emotionalism take over, leading you to the path to hell over a trivial issue that had no bearing on anything relative to yourself.

One of my Priests is black, some of my parioshioners are black many are asian, this is not some nαzι white pride site, nαzι's are anti-catholic, you are pushing yourself into the arms of those very people who believe you are 'less-evolved' since no-one here should be believing in evolution we would not have that view, we view legit catholic blacks as we do legit catholic whites, those outside we judge as people that need to be converted and that is all.

If you continue on the path to leave the one true church you will enter the the kingdom of hell, as their are only two kingdoms, one of heaven which true catholics are in and that of hell wherein everyone else lies.

If you cannot see this then there is little I can do to bring you back to mother church but I hope I've shown you that your entire judgement on this issue is flawed and your thought process devoid of all logic and reason.

Exilenomore · « **Reply #124 on:** July 12, 2011, 05:08:50 AM »

Cognorati

You are actually doing the same thing which you are accusing some people of. You condemn all of us because of a few people who lack the needed formation to be spreading their thoughts through public media. You even reject the whole faith because of it. It is extremely saddening to see someone refusing to learn what the catholic faith is truly about, because he/she assumes that whatever some anonymous poster on an internet forum says must be synonymous with the faith.

The Church has never taught, and never will teach, that black people are not human beings. It is preposterous and not catholic.

The peace of soul which you have said you desire, will not be found by apostasy from the apostolic faith, but by cultivating an interior life of prayer and abandonement to the love of God. It will neither be found by associating much with people, since people are (as you have noticed) sinful creatures who can do nothing right without the grace of God. And this goes for you and I as well. You need to distinguish between the faith and certain people who profess, or claim to profess it. This logic must be applied even to secular systems, as long as the systems are in harmony with natural law and the morality of the Church. How much more with the Church herself which is a divinely established institute. It must thus also be applied to groups of catholics who assemble around a wandering bishop or priest in these prophetic times often announced by the holy fathers and theologians.

You should have seen that some of us here are truly concerned about the wellfare of your soul, out of love for the same. But it does not seem to matter to you because of a few rash tongues who felt the 'irresistable' need to chime in. Again, it is very saddening.

Look how big the list of Saints who were black is. Do you not want to be one of them? It should eliminate any claim of racial hatred ascribed to the Church.

Exilenomore · « **Reply #125 on:** July 12, 2011, 05:25:34 AM »

Quote from: Exilenomore

It must thus also be applied to groups of catholics who assemble around a wandering bishop or priest in these prophetic times often announced by the holy fathers and theologians.

I mean that people in these groups, and the groups themselves, are often not always and in everything, faithful to what the Church teaches and is. One has broad access in these times to read the official docuмents of the Popes, and good, old, ecclesiastically approbated books about the faith, morals and the spiritual life. And the latter is thus much recommended.