Author Topic: Why did God allow Vatican II?  (Read 3607 times)

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Offline Cato

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Why did God allow Vatican II?
« on: April 25, 2013, 09:01:08 PM »
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  • Considering the damage it's done to the Church, why did God allow Vatican II?

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #1 on: April 25, 2013, 09:02:41 PM »
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  • Chastisement.  Purification.

    Why did God let the Israelites wander around in the desert for forty years?
    More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #2 on: April 25, 2013, 09:03:13 PM »
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  • You might as well ask, how did God allow Catholics to allow Vatican II.

    Catholics allowed Vatican II because most of them had very weak, if any Faith.  They lost the Faith because of their adherence to modern social values.

    Offline Cato

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #3 on: April 25, 2013, 09:07:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Chastisement.  Purification.

    Why did God let the Israelites wander around in the desert for forty years?


    Would you say that God has "left the Church to it's own devices?"

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #4 on: April 25, 2013, 09:15:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cato
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Chastisement.  Purification.

    Why did God let the Israelites wander around in the desert for forty years?


    Would you say that God has "left the Church to it's own devices?"


    No, I wouldn't say that.  That makes it sound like the Church is a disobedient servant being left to wallow in it's faults.  The Church is the spotless Bride of Christ, and serves Him, and serves Him perfectly.  What we have is God leaving man to his own devices, so to speak.  It would seem true to say that He has taken the Church away from most of the faithful, as a chastisement for our faithlessness.  
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    Offline songbird

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #5 on: April 25, 2013, 09:25:26 PM »
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  • Man was given free will to sin.  God gave man all he needs to save his soul, but man chooses differently.  The book WindSwept house gives a good picture as to what took place.  The Rhine Flows through Tiber, is another good book and it reads easier and explains very well what took place at Vat. II.  

    The Bible says these things must take place, the tribulations and such.  Chapter 12 of Daniel explains as well.

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #6 on: April 25, 2013, 09:57:25 PM »
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  • In 1962, no one imagined how far things would go, because at that time
    there was One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
    For example no one I remember desired any changes in the Mass.
    Teaching heresy and sex education in the same classrooms where I
    learned the true Catholic Faith a few years before, was unthinkable.
    There was no such terms as liberal Catholic, conservative Catholic.
    I should know because I lived at that time period.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #7 on: April 25, 2013, 09:57:32 PM »
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  • One thing to remember is that a lot of people who go along with the enabling that's happening try to blame those who fight against it.

    Many trads have become V2 and modernist enablers.  Their main enemies are the "resistance" and people accused of being sede (you don't even have to be sede anymore to be accused of it)

    The Church allowed this to happen because of people saying you must blindly follow someone who is believed to be Pope.

    It's very similar to the issue with feminism: if you bring up the problem with feminism the enablers of feminism will blame men for it.  It's a way to direct blame back on the person making the complaint.


    Offline Charlemagne

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #8 on: April 25, 2013, 10:25:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus


    The Church allowed this to happen because of people saying you must blindly follow someone who is believed to be Pope.



    I very much agree with this in particular. Satan has used false obedience to blind well-meaning Catholics to the fact that they must be true to Truth Himself instead of to a man wearing a white cassock. There are few things more sickening to me than people who hold to, "I'd rather be wrong with the pope than right without him."
    "Kindness is for fools! They [modernists] want to be treated with oil, soap, and caresses, but they ought to be beaten with fists. In a duel, you don't count or measure the blows, you strike as you can. War is not made with charity. It is a struggle, a duel." -- Pope St. Pius X

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #9 on: April 25, 2013, 10:38:34 PM »
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  • When I look at Traditional Catholics today for the most part, they have fervor, and love the Faith.  They defend the Faith.  Just prior to Vatican II,( I was in my early 20's), most Catholics took the Faith for granted, something you were just born into and it would always be there.  

    If Catholics acted then as the many SSPX laity are acting today, fighting to keep their chapels faithful, perhaps Vatican II would not have happened.  

    When the changes started happening although some people complained a little, and some were confused, but for the most part, they just accepted it.

    Therefore God just allowed it, to give us back our fervor.  Although it is much smaller now in numbers, it is still here.  Scattered as a consequence of having no pope, in the case of sedevacantist, or a bad popes, over and over again in the case of other Traditional Catholics groups.  

     

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #10 on: April 25, 2013, 11:56:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    One thing to remember is that a lot of people who go along with the enabling that's happening try to blame those who fight against it.

    Many trads have become V2 and modernist enablers.  Their main enemies are the "resistance"..


    What would you say to a priest who's convinced that the Resistance is a bad thing?


    Quote
    .. and people accused of being sede (you don't even have to be sede anymore to be accused of it)


    The particular priest I'm thinking of says he has absolutely no patience with sedes!

    Quote
    The Church allowed this to happen because of people saying you must blindly follow someone who is believed to be Pope.

    It's very similar to the issue with feminism: if you bring up the problem with feminism the enablers of feminism will blame men for it.  It's a way to direct blame back on the person making the complaint.


    The particular priest I'm thinking of tries to hide from such issues as Cardinals
    who promote "civil unions" or any news of what's currently going on in France,
    and he blushes and excuses himself when he hears about the priest who was
    beaten by the police for peacefully demonstrating against the Taubira
    legislation
    .

    Perhaps it may help for you to know that he likes to mention the latest
    Rush Limbaugh monologue during the moral theology class he teaches,
    when the content thereof has practically nothing to do with the material
    at hand.  Please be gentle, Tele....................................




    Your post also reminds me of a mentality I've encountered, where the
    idea of protesting is a bad idea, because it is not doing something positive,
    but is merely a way of complaining.  This mentality hears about "violence" in
    the protests in France, and immediately presumes it must be the
    "conservatives" who are "hitting the homosexuals" because they have only
    heard of such reports as that.  They seem to be averse to the very notion
    that it is possible for Sodomites to be violent people.









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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 12:16:39 AM »
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  • I'm trying to keep this on-topic, but I have to wonder if this is not what
    happened at Vat.II, that the spirit of the world led the day, and as such,
    the same spirit that says homosexuals are peaceful and anyone who
    stands in opposition to them are the real 'cause' of the 'problem.'  

    As you were saying, Tele, liberals and feminist-enablers (liberalism is
    essentially a feminizing of the intellect of man, which also means the
    masculinization of the intellect of women - who are not normally equipped
    to think in that way, it is not their nature) do not see the issue head-on
    but make it into a personal one, and end up directing blame back onto
    the person who made the complaint.  

    Quote from: Tele

    The Church allowed this to happen because of people saying you must blindly follow someone who is believed to be Pope.

    It's very similar to the issue with feminism: if you bring up the problem with feminism the enablers of feminism will blame men for it.  It's a way to direct blame back on the person making the complaint.



    Applying this principle, the mentality to which I refer in the previous post
    would blame the protesters in France for the 'problem' with the Taubira
    legislation.  

    Just as the liberal-enablers who went along with the changes after Vat.II
    would blame the Resistance - such priests as Fr. Gommar de Pauw, ABL or
    any of the early sedes who refused from the very start of the Newmass to
    have anything to do with it --- that by "blowing the whistle" on the
    malefactors, one becomes culpable for the malevolence effected.


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    Offline rcentros

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 04:20:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    When the changes started happening although some people complained a little, and some were confused, but for the most part, they just accepted it.


    That's not completely true. Vatican II decimated the Church, the seminaries and the Catholic schools. People left in droves over the reforms -- or at least quit attending Mass regularly.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #13 on: April 26, 2013, 08:11:30 AM »
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  • Quote from: rcentros
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    When the changes started happening although some people complained a little, and some were confused, but for the most part, they just accepted it.


    That's not completely true. Vatican II decimated the Church, the seminaries and the Catholic schools. People left in droves over the reforms -- or at least quit attending Mass regularly.


    My remark above was when it first started to happen, at the very beginning, your answer of which I do agree, was the result after awhile.  Bad fruit which introduces the laity who once had the Faith into a new faith and instructs the youth who never experienced the truth, into falsehood.

    Notice I said, "when the changes started happening".  

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Why did God allow Vatican II?
    « Reply #14 on: April 26, 2013, 09:19:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat


    I'm trying to keep this on-topic, but I have to wonder if this is not what
    happened at Vat.II, that the spirit of the world led the day, and as such,
    the same spirit that says homosexuals are peaceful and anyone who
    stands in opposition to them are the real 'cause' of the 'problem.'  




    In Malachia 1; 11 as we are told by the Council of Trent, as I was taught in Catholic school, “for from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; and everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; for great is my name among the nations”.  This great sacrifice of the true Mass, offered throughout the world somewhere every second.  This sacrifice of the Mass brought graces to the entire world, Catholics and non-Catholics alike.

     Although it was never a perfect world, yet these graces helped keep the devil in check.   After the Mass was destroyed and only a pale light of grace was given to the world, is when this bad spirit of the world increased to what we have today.  This evil spirit of the world, came after Vatican II, not before in my humble opinion.

       I remember as a child learning that if the Mass was taken away and the precious blood of Jesus was removed, the blood of mankind would flow in the streets of the world.  Just the blood of abortions alone proves this prophesy from the good nuns, that taught me.  


     

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