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Author Topic: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?  (Read 4521 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2019, 01:37:52 PM »
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  • As annoying as effeminate men are, we should still pray for them daily.

    Some of these men are just following what they consider to be a popular fad, or at least that's what I hope is the case.

    Nay, rather, they've been told that masculinity is bad and harmful, and that they must learn to overcome their masculinity in order to become good people (like women are).

    Have you all heard about the Gillette commercial controversy?


    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    Wars/Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #31 on: January 16, 2019, 02:02:19 PM »
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  • Why are Western European Men so effeminate?   Since I was a teenager and exposed to Europeans, like 50 years ago, I had always noticed them to not be very masculine [....]

    I think you would've had your answer if you'd not stopped short on your implied arithmetic: "50 years ago" was the Western cultural revolution of the late 1960s.  That decade was also the coming of age for the first generation born after 2 world wars.

    In the late 1960s, my high school hosted a foreign-exchange student from West Germany; it seems a bit unfair to concede, so many decades later, that he would not have been considered an exemplar of Teutonic masculinity.  He was a member of Germany's first postwar generation, just as my fellow high-school students were members of the corresponding U.S. generation, known as the Baby Boom.  On at least 1 occasion, he spoke--not assertively but rather meekly--about the shortage of men in German society after losing both wars.  For the final defense on the ground of their once-proud German Fatherland, able-bodied men were rare, so available manpower was typically limited to elderly or infirm men, plus boys not aged much beyond preteens.

    The conventional age for men to be fighting wars is also the age for men to be fathering & rearing families.  I suppose I could try to find postwar demographic information for Europe, but do any readers really doubt that at the end of each war, there were many more women in any adult age group than there were men?  So such numbers would probably show that in modern terms, a multitude of surviving European boys were reared by single moms.  And after each war ended, how many people continued to die from exposure or disease as the result of destroyed infrastructure?  Loss of sanitation and medical infrastructure created extra risk for elder survivors who were rearing children in the absence of parents.

    Do any readers really doubt that in European public policy, the horrors of 2 world wars motivated a majority preference for the superficial safety of pacifism over even sensible concern about rebuilding national military capabilities to a level sufficient for self-preservation?  It seems to me that at some level, such sentiments, when pervasive, would unavoidably dampen protective instincts & skills that are natural & needed in men.  Does history provide any examples of societies or nations that survived any significant collective reduction in the masculinity of their men?  Let's keep in mind that Europe is presently enduring an Islamic invasion in slow motion, predominately by men of those same fighting & fathering ages, and is responding with surprisingly foolish pacifism.


    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #32 on: January 16, 2019, 02:24:06 PM »
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  • Pewdiepie is one of the better ones I think because he is not politically correct, though of course he is not a good Catholic. We do live in a moral wasteland where nobody is decent anymore. Are there any famous trads, really, other than Mel Gibson? Actually I heard there is one somewhat popular youtuber who is an SSPX girl. Pewdiepie gets smeared as being a nαzι because he makes politically incorrect jokes like his famous "Death to All Jєωs" bit.


    He can't go a single video it seems without using the Lord's Holy Name and he mocks Christ and Christians, whenever the subject comes up. Speaking of that "Fiver" incident, earlier in that very same video, he paid a guy who makes a big joke about dressing up as Jesus and even dares to make "Jesus Christ" his stage name say something inane. Drops the F word multiple times and trashes the Holy Name. There is no best of YouTube with him at the top. I'm sick of this guy.

    Minute 8:41, extreme language warning, mocking Christ here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=520&v=urE7_mYfPmk

    And recently he just promoted him again on his stupid channel because the atheist YouTuber's ex-wife was trying to take his kids away from him and he blubbered on his channel begging for support like the effeminate little worm that he is.

    No need to watch the videos, just look at the thumbnails.





    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline Matto

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #33 on: January 16, 2019, 06:11:54 PM »
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  • To defend Pewdiepie pie again, youtube is a brothel and there are no Marinas in real life brothels. I am not holding him to Christian standards. I just find him to be decent for a whore in a brothel. Kind of like how I find Trump to be decent for an American politician. I have not watched many of his videos, only a few. I did enjoy one of his videos called "Birds are not real" which made me laugh. But anyway. Subscribe to Pewdiepie, defeat T-series.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    T.v.?/Re: Wars/Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #34 on: January 16, 2019, 10:01:13 PM »
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  • [...] the Western cultural revolution of the late 1960s.  That decade was also the coming of age for the first generation born after 2 world wars. [....] my fellow high-school students were members of the corresponding U.S. generation, known as the Baby Boom.

    Television back then was only black-&-white technology for families of ordinary means, and its programming was limited for people of all means to no more than a handful of channels, received as radio signals of independently varying quality.  Altho' its programs were produced and shown, then as now, primarily to provide eyeballs for commercial messages from sponsors, they did provide masculine role-models that were presumably satisfactory to the U.S. World-War II Generation, whose great majority had long been back from the war, finding new employment as national prosperity returned, and had settled into rearing young families.  The great majority of those families were eager to watch the new electronic wonder.

    The t.v. role-models of the time often came with catchy theme songs that many Baby Boomers would recognize, even if not remembering their lyrics, including Francis(?) "Swamp Fox" Marion (a Southern hero of the War for American Independence); Davy Crockett and Jim Bowie (both 19th-Century U.S. frontiersmen); The Great Adventure (patriotic treatment of episodes in American History); Wagon Train; long-running Gunsmoke, Bonanza, and numerous other "westerns", loosely "cowboy shows"[*]; and Combat (W.W. II U.S. Army in Europe).  There were a variety of "cop shows",  notably Dragnet, famous for the admonition to crime-witnesses: "Just the facts, ma'am".  The Sheriff Taylor played by Andy Griffith was about as gentle a leading man as was shown on 1960s t.v., but his folksy law-enforcement, years before informing arrestees of their legal rights by-the-book, always resolved the episode's challenges.

    The new t.v. genre that would be known as confrontation comedy was still a short distance off in the future, so none of the leading men were ever portrayed as buffoons, fools, or otherwise socially clueless, unlike on t.v. shows nowadays.  Such characters never appeared in more than supporting roles, including Dep. Barney Fife, Gomer Pyle, and Otis the drunk (Andy Griffith Show) and Festus (Gunsmoke).

    On t.v., re-runs of serials or full-length movies could be viewed, notably those featuring Tarzan (Johnny Weissmuller had won 5 Olympic gold medals total--1924 & 1928--in swimming), Buck Rogers, and Flash Gordon (Clarence Linden "Buster" Crabbe (II) won only 1 Olympic gold medal total--1932--in swimming, but he did get to play all 3 of the fictional heroes in 1 film or another).  It's arguably an insult to the latter 2 to credit them with leading the way for some uniformed-man-in-space programs on t.v. whose low budgets were embarrassingly obvious.  But they, along with 1 of the westerns, served as forerunners for Star Trek, whose concept was pitched to t.v. executives as "Wagon Train to the stars".

    So keeping in mind that the topic is the "Western European Men [... of ...] like 50 years ago",  I wonder: What male role-models could be watched on Western-European t.v. by the young sons of survivors of the World-War II Generations of Germany, Italy, France, or Britain?

    -------
    Note *: "Cowboys" except the Indian scout Tonto, partner for The Lone Ranger.  "Cowboys & Indians" was a popular outdoors role-playing game for boys, esp. when able to don appropriate costumes and use toy weapons.


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #35 on: January 17, 2019, 11:57:44 AM »
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  • To defend Pewdiepie pie again, youtube is a brothel and there are no Marinas in real life brothels. I am not holding him to Christian standards. I just find him to be decent for a whore in a brothel. Kind of like how I find Trump to be decent for an American politician. I have not watched many of his videos, only a few. I did enjoy one of his videos called "Birds are not real" which made me laugh. But anyway. Subscribe to Pewdiepie, defeat T-series.
    Agreed. It's like how everyone here supports Trump, even though he's an adulterous Protestant. Just because you support some things a persom does, and see them as the best of a bad bunch, doesn't mean you think they're a model Catholic or whatever else. 

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #36 on: January 17, 2019, 12:10:34 PM »
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  • Nay, rather, they've been told that masculinity is bad and harmful, and that they must learn to overcome their masculinity in order to become good people (like women are).

    It is also that paradoxically, Feminism has liberated men from their traditional manly responsibilities of providing for and protecting their women, and fathering children. Responsibilities which take great effort and fortitude (and other manly virtues), so all these pusillanimous and slothful little men go easily along with the Feminist propaganda, in order to escape such responsibilities and burdens, and have "easy" and pathetic lives, instead, with the minimum amount of sacrifice.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #37 on: January 17, 2019, 12:52:41 PM »
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  • It is also that paradoxically, Feminism has liberated men from their traditional manly responsibilities of providing for and protecting their women, and fathering children. Responsibilities which take great effort and fortitude (and other manly virtues), so all these pusillanimous and slothful little men go easily along with the Feminist propaganda, in order to escape such responsibilities and burdens, and have "easy" and pathetic lives, instead, with the minimum amount of sacrifice.

    I know (and know of) several millennials whose domestic partners (they're rarely married) work while they stay at home playing video games and perhaps watching their one kid (they never more than one, either none or one).  One of these lives next door to me.  Any real man would be humiliated to do nothing while their wives worked to support them; not these guys.

    One day I was in a GameStop getting a video game for one of my kids (I let them play some of these).  This was during normal work hours, since I was off that day.  I kid you not that there were a half dozen of these guys (millennials) in there, looking like they hadn't showered in a week, with half of them carrying a baby in a carseat carrier.  I texted my wife about this as I waited in line.  One of these guys held up the line for 30 minutes because he was making a $300 purchase ... undoubtedly with money earned by his female partner.


    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #38 on: January 17, 2019, 01:21:56 PM »
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  • I know (and know of) several millennials whose domestic partners (they're rarely married) work while they stay at home playing video games and perhaps watching their one kid (they never more than one, either none or one).  One of these lives next door to me.  Any real man would be humiliated to do nothing while their wives worked to support them; not these guys.

    One day I was in a GameStop getting a video game for one of my kids (I let them play some of these).  This was during normal work hours, since I was off that day.  I kid you not that there were a half dozen of these guys (millennials) in there, looking like they hadn't showered in a week, with half of them carrying a baby in a carseat carrier.  I texted my wife about this as I waited in line.  One of these guys held up the line for 30 minutes because he was making a $300 purchase ... undoubtedly with money earned by his female partner.
    Oh my gosh.... you have no idea how you just discribed my brothers. They work, but every waking moment is spent playing video games. Or posting about it.... it’s honestly insane...
    I’m scared to let games in because of it.... I had fun memories of playing mario cart with them, but seeing them grow up to be almost 40 and OBSESSED was a little frightening.

    Offline Matto

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #39 on: January 17, 2019, 01:31:18 PM »
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  • My answer to the question is television and public schools. About men not wanting to sacrifice for a wife and family, as Cantarella says, they have no good options (at least in America). It is not like there is a glut of young virginal faithful submissive women who want large families looking for marriage that these young men could sacrifice themselves for. They are offered mostly promiscuous feminist whores. There is a lot of nihilism in young men today over the breakdown of the family structure and marriage (I am sure there is among women as well, but I interact more with men).
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    Re: T.v.?/Re: Wars/Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #40 on: January 17, 2019, 01:34:04 PM »
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  • While reviewing my immediately previous posting ("Reply #34") for quick corrections shortly after posting, I realized that I'd provided no intro or transition to all my details from television of the 1960s.  Which of course could not be provided by a quick edit.

    So, starting from the cruel demographic realities in Europe after 2 World Wars, especially for the defeated nations:


    [...] age for men to be fighting wars is also the age for men to be fathering & rearing families.

    I wondered whether early television in Europe provided any significant number of masculine role-models that could serve as electronic reminders to boys deprived of fathers, uncles, &c., by those 2 World Wars, for what God intended a European Man to be.

    Or did socialist models of airwaves as a government possession, thus radio & t.v. programming as a government-controlled service paid with taxes, e.g., on the radio and t.v. receivers themselves, stifle the visual-entertainment aspects of t.v. that would stimulate the imagination of fatherless boys & teens?  Readers can probably assume that socialist governments would not allow their t.v. programming to convey ideas of "what God intended".

    That conceded, t.v. docuмentaries that are not much more captivating than a lecture that praises the leadership and fighting skill of English King Alfred the Great for his successes in repelling Danish invaders seems far less likely to stimulate the admiration & imagination of an English boy than simply showing that to him, i.e., presenting the same information about Alfred's life instead as episodes of a lively historical costume drama.  For England, the U.S. t.v.-entertainment series Robin Hood comes quickly to mind (except for its European subject, it's not necessarily better than U.S. t.v.-shows I've listed in recent postings).


    So keeping in mind that the topic is the "Western European Men [... of ...] like 50 years ago",  I wonder: What male role-models could be watched on Western-European t.v. [... in] Germany, Italy, France, or Britain?

    One factor working against the potential of television to inspire Western European boys of "like 50 years ago" was the national top priority: reconstructing their own countries.  Germany suffered daily bombings--including incendiary bombs--of civilian-population targets as World War II turned against it; it had probably the most extensive reconstruction work ahead of it.  The U.S. Marshall Plan might've resolved the question of money for top-priority reconstruction, but there were still the issues of obtaining suitable building materials and plans: Buildings in picturesque mediæval city centers might never had had plans drawn [×], or if they ever existed, they might've been lost to bombing.  So it could've been quite easy to dismiss t.v. broadcasts & receivers as laughably out-of-the-question luxuries.

    -------
    Note ×: The problem isn't limited to Old-World cities established many centuries ago.  In a recent decade, planners for a major public-works project in New York City were surprised to discover that there were no plans that accurately depicted what was then under the streets of the city, including hardware for water-supplies, sewage, and electricity, and voids like shipping tunnels.


    Offline Lady in Waiting

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #41 on: January 17, 2019, 03:08:50 PM »
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  • Hello.  I am a newbie.  I am retired from teaching profession and a small housecleaning business.  I follow the older catechisms and measure priests and groups by this.  Those that follow the Council of Trent, Vatican I the most closely, I try and support.  As a convert, following TradCat for the past 17 years, I have a wide background, which can confuse people at times.  I try and keep it simple,and try to read what people write very carefully,so that I do not misinterpret them, something easy to do on-line, where one cannot read one's face or body language. Sometimes writers start out sounding in support of something, when they are merely attempting to understand the motives and circuмstances of that something, and then in the body of that writing, they clarify their position and point out the errors.  This may be similar to St. Paul's method of writing.

    It saddens me to see all the perversions regarding femininity and masculinity in our current society.  Being of European born parents ( I am first generation American) I am especially saddened by many misunderstandings of traditional European culture and its confusion with the modern perversions.  I grew up in a traditional European world, specifically Scandinavian.  It was wonderful!  Lots of relatives, a beautiful culture and gentle language.  Now it is largely gone.  Fortunately, my children also experienced much of this. 

    My aunt (Tante) told me of how, when she was a young single woman, (1920's-& 30's-she married later in life) the single men and women (Scandinavian immigrants) would gather together for a hike and a picnic.  The men would hike ahead with the picnic baskets full of food which the women had made (from scratch, of course) and find a grassy meadow up the mountain, and put out a blanket in preparation for the women to arrive.  They would sing to each other, even some yodeling along the way, so the women would know which trail to take, to follow the men.  That is how they kept in contact with each other, and no one got lost in the forest.  The women wore dresses and were feminine, supportive, the men wore pants, and were muscular and strong, protective. 

    Women and young girls would walk arm in arm with each other.  Often the men would put an arm around the shoulder of a companion man.  No one had an inkling that these innocent and companionable actions were decades later to be interpreted in a perverted manner!  In the 1980's, in natural and customary practice, my teen daughter and I were walking hand in hand home from the beach (we lived only a few blocks away from the beach) and some sick person in a car yelled out to us from the open window, LESBIANS!  What a shock to me that was!  My daughter said, well mom, that is how some people think these days!

    Well, this is getting a little long.  Perhaps I will post more later;  about the difference between an effeminate man and a cultured gentleman.  Oh, by the way, my father worked for movie stars.  John Wayne's birth name was Marion (! yes, Marion!!) Robert Morrison!  He said later in his acting career that he was surprised that Hollywood could keep his John Wayne image alive for so long!  And he was "straight" in his real life, by the way, despite his birth name!  Perhaps I shall tell you some more true stories about the movie stars in the future, if you wish.  They are not the roles that they play in life. Hollywood is all fantasy.


    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #42 on: January 17, 2019, 03:39:15 PM »
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  • Lady in waiting, I’m a big fan of John Wayne movies! I think he’s found intimidating by men these days, and it’s really sad. Some of my favorite movies of his is “The quiet man”, or “McClintock”. 

    I’m terribly sorry to have a moment with your daughter ruined by such awful creatures.

    Welcome to the board! I hope to see you in the women’s section soon! 

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #43 on: January 17, 2019, 04:13:47 PM »
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  • Quote
    In the 1980's, in natural and customary practice, my teen daughter and I were walking hand in hand home from the beach (we lived only a few blocks away from the beach) and some sick person in a car yelled out to us from the open window, LESBIANS!  What a shock to me that was! 
    I visited Krakow, Poland a few years ago and it is a young, college town with students and young people everywhere.  I saw many women walking arm-in-arm or holding hands, as they talked.  (They were obviously very feminine and as far from lesbian as you could get.)  I had never seen this before but it struck me as "normal" in the sense that it is natural for friends who are close to show some sort of physical affection (especially women)...even though this isn't normal in America.  
    I've heard it said that in heaven, all the elect will be able to have the deepest friendships with everyone because age/sex/immorality/selfishness/envy/etc will not exist and will not be a barrier to interacting.  What a thought! 

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Why are Western European Men so Effeminate?
    « Reply #44 on: January 17, 2019, 04:17:55 PM »
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  • I visited Krakow, Poland a few years ago and it is a young, college town with students and young people everywhere.  I saw many women walking arm-in-arm or holding hands, as they talked.  (They were obviously very feminine and as far from lesbian as you could get.)  I had never seen this before but it struck me as "normal" in the sense that it is natural for friends who are close to show some sort of physical affection (especially women)...even though this isn't normal in America.  
    I've heard it said that in heaven, all the elect will be able to have the deepest friendships with everyone because age/sex/immorality/selfishness/envy/etc will not exist and will not be a barrier to interacting.  What a thought!
    I've heard that in parts of the Middle East, even male friends hold hands. Because over there, there's never any question that two men showing affection towards each other are gαy. It used to be the same in the West, if you look at very old photographs of men you see many men in poses that'd get them called gαy today.