Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Malleus on April 22, 2015, 10:12:11 AM
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I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but I have always found this curious. Most of the members of the Hierarchy before Vatican 2 I have seen pictures of are usually overweight and have a large gut.
Since their lifestyles are supposed to be more rigorous, mortified etc. than the regular layman, how can any of them be fat?
This includes pre-V2 Popes too.
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I see this today in trad clergy as well.
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Who am I to judge?
Some perhaps weren't as mortified as they should be. Some perhaps led excessively-sedentary lives due to the nature of their work. Some perhaps just ate too many carbs and less protein (perhaps even as a RESULT of mortification); I know that I usually GAIN weight during Lent because I eat less meat & fats and more carbs due to what's readily-available within the parameters of the fasting regulations.
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Who am I to judge?
Some perhaps weren't as mortified as they should be. Some perhaps led excessively-sedentary lives due to the nature of their work. Some perhaps just ate too many carbs and less protein (perhaps even as a RESULT of mortification); I know that I usually GAIN weight during Lent because I eat less meat & fats and more carbs due to what's readily-available within the parameters of the fasting regulations.
It's not about judging and pointing fingers, I'm just curious about this and don't know where else to ask haha.
I know it's a fact that you can't gain weight without eating enough, so even if you're sedentary, you need to eat quite a bit or the bad kinds of foods to gain weight.
And it's not like the sedentary ones were in wheelchairs or something.
Well that depends on what carbs you eat. I find it hard to believe you gain weight in Lent.
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I gain weight every Lent. Had no idea what the deal was for years, until I learned of carbs, etc. I'm busy trying to lose it (again) presently.
I do not think it is an edifying topic for speculation, BTW. Leave the concern about obesity to Mrs. Obama. :cheers:
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Well that depends on what carbs you eat. I find it hard to believe you gain weight in Lent.
Carbs are carbs and they all lead to weight gain, especially for individuals who have gotten up into their 40s. If you fasted on just bread and water, you would be extremely mortified but you would also gain weight (unless you had an extremely active lifestyle). You appear to be assuming lack of mortification for all the overweight clerics, but that's not necessarily the case. So, yeah, you ARE in fact trying to make categorical judgments.
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Well that depends on what carbs you eat. I find it hard to believe you gain weight in Lent.
Carbs are carbs and they all lead to weight gain, especially for individuals who have gotten up into their 40s. If you fasted on just bread and water, you would be extremely mortified but you would also gain weight (unless you had an extremely active lifestyle). You appear to be assuming lack of mortification for all the overweight clerics, but that's not necessarily the case. So, yeah, you ARE in fact trying to make categorical judgments.
No, there are simple/processed and complex/natural carbs. There is a big difference between the two, like with white and whole grain bread, for instance. White and whole grain pasta, white and whole grain rice etc.
Are the carbs you consume during Lent all complex/natural?
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I gain weight every Lent. Had no idea what the deal was for years, until I learned of carbs, etc. I'm busy trying to lose it (again) presently.
What kind of carbs do you eat during Lent?
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if you follow the lenten fast you do not have dairy (including eggs), meat, or oil, or shellfish.
you also do not eat shellfish, or eat till after noon.
cooking is complex for most people ie:meal planning (http://www.orthodoxmom.com/lenten-menu-plan-binder/) here is just one orthodox one
the lenten fast is ment to lead one to feel sick and bloated to make us like the prodigal son
And after he had spent all, there came a mighty famine in that country; and he began to be in want. [15] And he went and cleaved to one of the citizens of that country. And he sent him into his farm to feed swine.
[16] And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks the swine did eat; and no man gave unto him. [17] And returning to himself, he said: How many hired servants in my father' s house abound with bread, and I here perish with hunger? [18] I will arise, and will go to my father, and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee: [19] I am not worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
the awareness of our sinfulness is supposed to lead us to reflection and conversion.
BTW i do not recommend the bread and water fast unless you are aware of the possible consequences. anyone who has done the black fast H. Thursday to Easter knows what I am talking about
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Thomas Aquinas was rotund, but I doubt anyone would think he did not lead an ascetical life.
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This very thread is evidence of ignorance regarding weight gain, biology (leptin, insulin, insulin resistance, hormones, etc.) and body types.
Someone has been watching too many Hollywood movies.
How can 63.1% of Americans, or 63.1% of any group, be "overweight"? Doesn't the average just need to be re-calculated -- or questioned as being unrealistic?
Not every overweight person is a glutton, eating bags of potato chips and tubs of ice cream. Some overweight persons might eat no more than you -- but their metabolisms aren't as kind to them as yours is to you.
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Just for starters, there are different body shapes/types. Not every non-sixpack belly is a "muffin top" or pure cellulite. Some body types have a lot of muscle, so even when some fat is present they "wear it well".
Male opera singers often have a large belly, but it's not a jiggly bowl of jello.
And even that layer of fat that they wear well/poorly, might have got there any number of ways. They might have eaten too many carbs like bread. They might have been full/hungry exactly as much as you, and still gained weight. It happens to more people than you care to think about.
But I know, it makes one feel superior to consider everyone overweight to be a Pop Tart-gorging glutton.
Speaking of Pop Tarts, I know of some children (no, not mine thank God!) who stole a CASE of Pop Tarts -- 40 pop tarts among 7 children. On Good Friday no less! They are all skinny as a rail. So they, who DO seem to have a problem with gluttony, won't get judged, while some poor man/woman with a slow metabolism will get judged 12 times a day.
Life certainly isn't fair!
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Well that depends on what carbs you eat. I find it hard to believe you gain weight in Lent.
Carbs are carbs and they all lead to weight gain, especially for individuals who have gotten up into their 40s. If you fasted on just bread and water, you would be extremely mortified but you would also gain weight (unless you had an extremely active lifestyle). You appear to be assuming lack of mortification for all the overweight clerics, but that's not necessarily the case. So, yeah, you ARE in fact trying to make categorical judgments.
No, there are simple/processed and complex/natural carbs. There is a big difference between the two, ...
Not when it comes to weight gain and not for me. As Matthew pointed out, everyone is different. I can eat nothing but whole-grain rice and will gain weight (even with reduced calories). Different people process carbs differently. I have a son who can eat 10,000 calories per day for a month and not put on a pound of weight; he burns through it. Factors like cortisol levels (which increase due to stress and also from being sedentary) determine how many of the carbs get stored as body fat. It's much more complicated than you want to pretend, and there's no way to know why any particular individual appears to be overweight. In addition, if you eat fewer meals per day, then you'll put on weight. Body thinks that it's in starvation mode so it packs away as much food as possible for later use (that's what fat is, calories stored away for later use).
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Metabolism is a key factor. I look a lot different after I had thyroid cancer four years ago. Beforehand I could eat just about anything and never weigh more than 120 lbs. After living without a thyroid I eat on average 800 calories a day and am 150 lbs. A Lenten one meal a day had no weight loss affect at all because other than one meal and a snack in the evening is all I eat anyways.
And medication (thyroid substitute) is really no substitute for a properly working body. Thus different people look different.
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In addition, if you eat fewer meals per day, then you'll put on weight. Body thinks that it's in starvation mode so it packs away as much food as possible for later use (that's what fat is, calories stored away for later use).
This didn't happen to me this Lent. I lost weight instead. So did someone else i know.
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In addition, if you eat fewer meals per day, then you'll put on weight. Body thinks that it's in starvation mode so it packs away as much food as possible for later use (that's what fat is, calories stored away for later use).
This didn't happen to me this Lent. I lost weight instead. So did someone else i know.
Again, different people have different metabolisms. I cannot tolerate any significant amount of carbs.
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In addition, if you eat fewer meals per day, then you'll put on weight. Body thinks that it's in starvation mode so it packs away as much food as possible for later use (that's what fat is, calories stored away for later use).
This didn't happen to me this Lent. I lost weight instead. So did someone else i know.
Lucky Malleus! I could kill for some toast right this minute. :laugh1:
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Thomas Aquinas was rotund
Where did you get this from?
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. Most of the members of the Hierarchy before Vatican 2 I have seen pictures of are usually overweight and have a large gut
Not from what I've seen, actually, quite the opposite with the pleasantly plump pope John who kicked the whole VII thing off to begin with.
I believe JPII was some sort of disciple of physical fitness since his youth. I also never noticed pope Paul being obese in any way either. all bets are off though with Francis. although being the son of Italian (disregard all that "Latin American" propaganda) immigrants, I'm sure he's been subjected thanmore than his share of pasta and carbs in his lifetime.
But yea, something not right about overweight religious. It's kinda like a fat cop.
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Thomas Aquinas was rotund
Where did you get this from?
Everybody knows this..Google St. Thomas Aquinis Overweight for starters.
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...and look at paintings of the great saint..
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...and look at paintings of the great saint..
I have seen paintings where he's thin.
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...and look at paintings of the great saint..
I have seen paintings where he's thin.
The Angelic Doctor is known to have been of formidable girth.
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Thomas Aquinas was rotund
Where did you get this from?
Everybody knows this..Google St. Thomas Aquinis Overweight for starters.
I did and the first page was a bunch of Novus Ordo results, people being "happy" because St. Thomas "wasn't perfect".
You call that evidence?
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Well that depends on what carbs you eat. I find it hard to believe you gain weight in Lent.
Carbs are carbs and they all lead to weight gain, especially for individuals who have gotten up into their 40s. If you fasted on just bread and water, you would be extremely mortified but you would also gain weight (unless you had an extremely active lifestyle). You appear to be assuming lack of mortification for all the overweight clerics, but that's not necessarily the case. So, yeah, you ARE in fact trying to make categorical judgments.
No, there are simple/processed and complex/natural carbs. There is a big difference between the two, ...
Not when it comes to weight gain and not for me. As Matthew pointed out, everyone is different. I can eat nothing but whole-grain rice and will gain weight (even with reduced calories). Different people process carbs differently. I have a son who can eat 10,000 calories per day for a month and not put on a pound of weight; he burns through it. Factors like cortisol levels (which increase due to stress and also from being sedentary) determine how many of the carbs get stored as body fat. It's much more complicated than you want to pretend, and there's no way to know why any particular individual appears to be overweight. In addition, if you eat fewer meals per day, then you'll put on weight. Body thinks that it's in starvation mode so it packs away as much food as possible for later use (that's what fat is, calories stored away for later use).
Are you aware you can increase your metabolism?
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Thomas Aquinas was rotund
Where did you get this from?
Everybody knows this..Google St. Thomas Aquinis Overweight for starters.
I did and the first page was a bunch of Novus Ordo results, people being "happy" because St. Thomas "wasn't perfect".
You call that evidence?
So what?
G.K. Chesterton
Or, you may have him thin if you prefer it that way.
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I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but I have always found this curious. Most of the members of the Hierarchy before Vatican 2 I have seen pictures of are usually overweight and have a large gut.
Since their lifestyles are supposed to be more rigorous, mortified etc. than the regular layman, how can any of them be fat?
This includes pre-V2 Popes too.
I, too, have noticed this. 50+ years ago there wasn't the knowledge of healthy eating like we have today. Back then, a healthy meal consisted of "meat and potatoes" and a bit of vegetable (probably canned) on the side. As for exercise, well, I'm sure it would (and still would to some extent, today) have been frowned upon if a Pope, bishop, or priest went jogging or worked out in "sweats and a T-shirt" in public. And the emphasis upon a "healthy" soul rather than a perfectly healthy body comes into play too. Just my own guess.
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50+ years ago there wasn't the knowledge of healthy eating like we have today. Back then, a healthy meal consisted of "meat and potatoes" and a bit of vegetable (probably canned) on the side.
I question that. You seem to be speaking of a very limited group of people here. Fewer people made a fetish out of food, that's for sure. Doesn't mean they knew any less.
As for exercise, well, I'm sure it would (and still would to some extent, today) have been frowned upon if a Pope, bishop, or priest went jogging or worked out in "sweats and a T-shirt" in public.
Yes, indeed, but that is also a very narrow view of exercise.